Have to move, opinion on where is best

pichon · January 16, 2011, 10:19 PM

I currently live in Utah where I have many liberties not afforded to those in other states. For instance I can carry my concealed firearm to class with me at the university which I attend. This is prohibited in most states.

I am in the final year of my masters program here in Utah and my wife and I are deciding on which law school to attend. We both love owning firearms and are very concerned about home and self defense.

I have a few concerns about laws in different states as we will most likely be moving out of Utah.

I have 3 handguns and 2 of them have high capacity magazines. I have a Utah CCP and would like to be able to legally carry in my destination state whether I have to get their permit or just use mine.

I have applied to a few schools. There is a possibility of staying in Utah but these are the other places in which the schools are located. Which are gun friendliest and why?

Stockton, California
Seattle, Washington
Spokane, Washington
Eugene, Oregon
Salem, Oregon
Las Vegas, Nevada

Gun rights are an important part of the decision for us as we will be spending at least 3 years in whichever place we choose.

jgcoastie · January 16, 2011, 10:42 PM

Of those listed, Washington is the only state with reciprocity with Utah...

If I were in your shoes, I would try to stay in Utah if I could. If not, I'd try for Washington. I would think that Spokane would be more gun-friendly (if only marginaly) than Seattle, based solely on poulation... Neither are particularly horrible or awesome IMO....

**Glenn E. Meyer** · January 16, 2011, 11:51 PM

In today's economy - go to the school that gives you the best education and job prospects.

Except for California - all the states are gun friendly. Establish residency and get their permit.

You can defend your house with a SW Model 10 quite adequately for 3 years. Your career is for your whole life.

If University of Oregon or U. of Washington (I'm guessing) are best rated - go there.

Guns are NOT the highest priority in chosing between UT, Nevada, Oregon or Washington.

Jake Balam · January 16, 2011, 11:56 PM

Washington is a fairly gun friendly state. open carry is allowed and we are a "shall issue" state. carrying at the university is prohibited by school policy and state law however.

pichon · January 17, 2011, 12:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr. Meyer

In today's economy - go to the school that gives you the best education and job prospects.

Except for California - all the states are gun friendly. Establish residency and get their permit.

You can defend your house with a SW Model 10 quite adequately for 3 years. Your career is for your whole life.

If University of Oregon or U. of Washington (I'm guessing) are best rated - go there.

Guns are NOT the highest priority in chosing between UT, Nevada, Oregon or Washington.

All of the schools are roughly equal except the University of Utah, which is superior to the others, and which is obviously my first choice for multiple reasons. Staying may not be in the cards though. I am already set with a job after I graduate with some family friends regardless.

**Shane Tuttle** · January 17, 2011, 12:50 AM

Glenn said it best, pichon. You can always get a permit in the other states besides California. Pick the best school for your application. Laws in Nevada, Oregon, and Washington aren't so different that you cannot defend yourself rather reasonably. You may not carry on campus. But you're going to have to give up some liberties you have in Utah if you're not willing to stay there.

jmortimer · January 17, 2011, 01:00 AM

California is not the place you want to be unless you have no choice. High taxes, many stupid gun laws, high unemployment, and it will get worse. The central valley including stockton pretty much blows. Forgot the mention the stupid new "handgun ammunition" law going into effect in a couple weeks. Do your self a favor and pick another location.

egor20 · January 17, 2011, 01:12 AM

Helpful hint, also check the local laws.

http://www.handgunlaw.us/

Congratulations to you and the missus, we need more gun friendly lawyer's

Carne Frio · January 17, 2011, 02:10 AM

Stockton is a hell hole with high unemployment,
high drug use and a high crime rate.

**Glenn E. Meyer** · January 17, 2011, 03:50 PM

Ah, the naivety of the young. In three years, the job might not be there. You might not like the job and want to leave. Working for family friends forever?

However, your degree credential lasts for much longer.

Not a gun opinion but as an educator - go for the best degree and expect a changing future.

pichon · January 17, 2011, 05:21 PM

Quote:

Ah, the naivety of the young.

I am actually older than most law students, but I bet you know that and can see my age in my user profile (being a moderator and all).

Quote:

In three years, the job might not be there. You might not like the job and want to leave.

My friend is a partner at one of Utah's largest firms. He is the chairman over the fields in which he works for his firm. They (the firm) and the job aren't going anywhere. I may not love them (the jobs) but I have a backup plan too. I have a masters degree from a good business school.

Quote:

Working for family friends forever?

You have me there. That is where my masters degree comes into play. I don't plan on working as an attorney forever and my friend knows that. Law is simply a means to an end. I have an entrepreneurial spirit and heritage, I will one day own my own business. My family and I aren't really concerned about money either as my parents made very wise decisions and that has left us in a good financial situation.

Like I said before, I am doing everything I can to stay in Utah as that is the best school on the list. I do value a quality education, but I dont fret too much about the other schools on the list as they are really all in the same league. Staying in Utah just may not be possible.

Thanks for all of the input too everybody. I do enjoy the discussion.

vytoland · January 17, 2011, 06:24 PM

if you are interested in obtaining a law degree at a high ranked university in the U.S. this may help you................

http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsa...hools/rankings

**Glenn E. Meyer** · January 17, 2011, 06:29 PM

Sorry to underestimate you, but I'm getting old and have moved jobs and seen great places fail.

Just trying to be an old get off the lawn guy - giving advice.

Personally, knowing the NW - I'd go there in heartbeat over CA.

Eugene is a nice town. OR and WA are good gun states.

pichon · January 17, 2011, 06:31 PM

Quote:

if you are interested in obtaining a law degree at a high ranked university in the U.S. this may help you................

Unfortunately many of those schools have very high admission test standards. Yale, Harvard, et al. are very hard to get into and are therefore not a possibility for me. I applied to schools within the realm of my possibilities based on test scores.

Vermonter · January 17, 2011, 06:40 PM

It seems crazy to choose ones place of residence and in this case ones schooling simply based on firearms. Until you consider the following.....

1. The best fit may have just as much to do with culture as it does with the institution itself. If you are uncomfortable for whatever reason it may show in your results.

2. Many folks simply don't like being restricted in any way whatsoever. I live in Vermont. Surprisingly enough as democratic as the state votes we have many gun rights that others do not. I don't even need a CCW permit. Then again the state allows civil unions and small amounts of personal use narcotics depending on where within the state you are. The fact is that Vermont goes beyond liberal and in some ways is libertarian. .

3. Often the places with the most strict gun legislation are also the places with the highest crime rates. This again leads back to the general discomfort thing once again.

On a side note I hope this is just one part of your thought process and is not your A #1 deciding factor.

Vermonter

pichon · January 17, 2011, 09:41 PM

Quote:

On a side note I hope this is just one part of your thought process and is not your A #1 deciding factor.

It is simply a consideration. I will not be making my final decision based on gun laws but I think from what has been said Stockton has a few strikes against it. My family will be alone a lot and I want them to be safe while I am gone.

**Shane Tuttle** · January 17, 2011, 09:49 PM

All things relative, you are a young 'un, pichon!

Mr. James · January 18, 2011, 05:04 PM

Hi, pichon,

Mr. Meyer has spoken well of the proper priorities here. Of the listed choices, I'd take Washington - but then, I'm biased, having spent some of the best years of my life in the Seattle area.

If all else is equal, you'll find the Spokane area is more gun-friendly than the Puget Sound basin. But you can't beat the scenery in Western Washington.

But, as Mr. Meyer noted, the top priority is to get into the best law school you can!

Oh, and stay the heck away from Stockton!

God bless and good luck with your education.

Doodlebugger45 · January 18, 2011, 09:34 PM

I would rule California out even if I didn't own a gun.

My daughter faced a similar choice when she picked a vet school. She grew up in Wyoming, went to U of Wyo in Laramie for 4 years. She got accepted into Colo State right off the bat and figured Ft. Collins wouldn't be all that different than Laramie. But she found out Colorado is a world of difference than Wyoming when it comes to culture (some may scoff that Wyoming has no culture, but that's culture also). Rather than commit to CSU right away, she checked out the vet schools at Oregon St, Washington St, Minnesota. She decided Oregon St was a little too liberal for her tastes. I was actually surprised she picked Washington State there in Pullman.

After visiting the campus, I was pleasantly surprised. Eastern Washington isn't as redneck as Wyoming is, but it's a nice place and the people are close to normal. I'm guessing Spokane would be similar.

Without knowing anything at all about the deal you might be getting from one school or the other, I would pick Spokane just based on the quality of life. But that's my judgement, not yours. I was born and raised in Utah also, but not the big city part of it. I come from Carbon County, so I'm definitely a redneck hick type.

Good luck.

wally626 · January 18, 2011, 10:12 PM

Of those cities listed I would choose Spokane, it has the weather and climate closest to Utah, and WA has pretty good gun laws.

BlueTrain · January 20, 2011, 09:23 AM

Move to Virginia, to my neighborhood. We even have a stake right around the corner, if that's the right word. And there are lots of jobs for lawyers in DC and besides, you'd have me for a neighbor.

pichon · January 21, 2011, 03:24 AM

Quote:

Move to Virginia, to my neighborhood. We even have a stake right around the corner, if that's the right word. And there are lots of jobs for lawyers in DC and besides, you'd have me for a neighbor.

I would no doubt enjoy that very much (having you for a neighbor) and George Mason is a fine school I would love to attend. Convincing the wife to move to VA however would be difficult to impossible though. I am under strict orders to stay west of Kansas.

You are correct by the way, it is called a stake.

Jake Balam · January 21, 2011, 03:42 AM

Having lived in Washington my whole life, I would steer clear of Spokompton. It is not a very pretty, or safe city. Also the weather on the west side of the mountains is much more mild.

BlueTrain · January 21, 2011, 08:07 AM

West of Kansas? Odd restriction.

I have two children attending George Mason now, including the one who served in the army and who I am always talking about. There is a statue of George Mason himself on campus (who happens to be my wife's great-something grandfather but he had many, many descendents). George Mason had something to do with the 2nd Admendment, you know. There's also an even larger statue of Confuscious but I don't think we're related. However, the school I went to had a statue of a mountaineer out in front of the student union building (the Mountainlair) and sure enough, he has a rifle.

January 16, 2011, 10:42 PM	#2
jgcoastie Senior Member Join Date: February 15, 2009 Location: Now: Michigan, Previously: Alaska, California, North Carolina, Mississippi Posts: 2,093	Of those listed, Washington is the only state with reciprocity with Utah... If I were in your shoes, I would try to stay in Utah if I could. If not, I'd try for Washington. I would think that Spokane would be more gun-friendly (if only marginaly) than Seattle, based solely on poulation... Neither are particularly horrible or awesome IMO.... __________________ "To preserve liberty, it is essential that the whole body of the people always possess arms, and be taught alike, especially when young, how to use them." -Richard Henry Lee, Virginia delegate to the Continental Congress, initiator of the Declaration of Independence, and member of the first Senate, which passed the Bill of Rights.

January 16, 2011, 11:51 PM	#3
Glenn E. Meyer Staff Join Date: November 17, 2000 Posts: 13,155	In today's economy - go to the school that gives you the best education and job prospects. Except for California - all the states are gun friendly. Establish residency and get their permit. You can defend your house with a SW Model 10 quite adequately for 3 years. Your career is for your whole life. If University of Oregon or U. of Washington (I'm guessing) are best rated - go there. Guns are NOT the highest priority in chosing between UT, Nevada, Oregon or Washington. __________________ NRA, TSRA, IDPA, NTI, Polite Soc. http://www.teddytactical.com/archive...05_Feature.htm Being an Academic Shooter http://www.teddytactical.com/archive...11_Feature.htm Being an Active Shooter

January 17, 2011, 12:50 AM	#6
Shane Tuttle Staff Join Date: November 28, 2005 Location: Blue Grass, IA Posts: 8,209	Glenn said it best, pichon. You can always get a permit in the other states besides California. Pick the best school for your application. Laws in Nevada, Oregon, and Washington aren't so different that you cannot defend yourself rather reasonably. You may not carry on campus. But you're going to have to give up some liberties you have in Utah if you're not willing to stay there. __________________ If it were up to me, the word "got" would be deleted from the English language. Posting and YOU: http://www.albinoblacksheep.com/flash/posting

January 17, 2011, 01:12 AM	#8
egor20 Senior Member Join Date: November 14, 2010 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 1,743	Helpful hint, also check the local laws. http://www.handgunlaw.us/ Congratulations to you and the missus, we need more gun friendly lawyer's __________________ Chief stall mucker and grain chef Country don't mean dumb. Steven King. The Stand

January 17, 2011, 03:50 PM	#10
Glenn E. Meyer Staff Join Date: November 17, 2000 Posts: 13,155	Ah, the naivety of the young. In three years, the job might not be there. You might not like the job and want to leave. Working for family friends forever? However, your degree credential lasts for much longer. Not a gun opinion but as an educator - go for the best degree and expect a changing future. __________________ NRA, TSRA, IDPA, NTI, Polite Soc. http://www.teddytactical.com/archive...05_Feature.htm Being an Academic Shooter http://www.teddytactical.com/archive...11_Feature.htm Being an Active Shooter

January 16, 2011, 10:19 PM	#1
pichon Senior Member Join Date: January 27, 2009 Posts: 439	Have to move, opinion on where is best I currently live in Utah where I have many liberties not afforded to those in other states. For instance I can carry my concealed firearm to class with me at the university which I attend. This is prohibited in most states. I am in the final year of my masters program here in Utah and my wife and I are deciding on which law school to attend. We both love owning firearms and are very concerned about home and self defense. I have a few concerns about laws in different states as we will most likely be moving out of Utah. I have 3 handguns and 2 of them have high capacity magazines. I have a Utah CCP and would like to be able to legally carry in my destination state whether I have to get their permit or just use mine. I have applied to a few schools. There is a possibility of staying in Utah but these are the other places in which the schools are located. Which are gun friendliest and why? Stockton, California Seattle, Washington Spokane, Washington Eugene, Oregon Salem, Oregon Las Vegas, Nevada Gun rights are an important part of the decision for us as we will be spending at least 3 years in whichever place we choose. Last edited by pichon; January 16, 2011 at 10:26 PM.

January 16, 2011, 11:56 PM	#4
Jake Balam Senior Member Join Date: January 14, 2011 Location: 360 Washington Posts: 160	Washington is a fairly gun friendly state. open carry is allowed and we are a "shall issue" state. carrying at the university is prohibited by school policy and state law however.

January 17, 2011, 01:00 AM	#7
jmortimer Junior member Join Date: January 24, 2010 Location: South West Riverside County California Posts: 2,765	California is not the place you want to be unless you have no choice. High taxes, many stupid gun laws, high unemployment, and it will get worse. The central valley including stockton pretty much blows. Forgot the mention the stupid new "handgun ammunition" law going into effect in a couple weeks. Do your self a favor and pick another location.

January 17, 2011, 02:10 AM	#9
Carne Frio Senior Member Join Date: August 28, 2008 Location: Near Fairbanks Alaska Posts: 671	Stockton is a hell hole with high unemployment, high drug use and a high crime rate.

January 17, 2011, 06:24 PM	#12
vytoland Senior Member Join Date: August 23, 2008 Location: Illinois Posts: 591	if you are interested in obtaining a law degree at a high ranked university in the U.S. this may help you................ http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsa...hools/rankings

January 17, 2011, 06:29 PM	#13
Glenn E. Meyer Staff Join Date: November 17, 2000 Posts: 13,155	Sorry to underestimate you, but I'm getting old and have moved jobs and seen great places fail. Just trying to be an old get off the lawn guy - giving advice. Personally, knowing the NW - I'd go there in heartbeat over CA. Eugene is a nice town. OR and WA are good gun states. __________________ NRA, TSRA, IDPA, NTI, Polite Soc. http://www.teddytactical.com/archive...05_Feature.htm Being an Academic Shooter http://www.teddytactical.com/archive...11_Feature.htm Being an Active Shooter

January 17, 2011, 06:40 PM	#15
Vermonter Senior Member Join Date: October 17, 2010 Posts: 871	A different prospective. It seems crazy to choose ones place of residence and in this case ones schooling simply based on firearms. Until you consider the following..... 1. The best fit may have just as much to do with culture as it does with the institution itself. If you are uncomfortable for whatever reason it may show in your results. 2. Many folks simply don't like being restricted in any way whatsoever. I live in Vermont. Surprisingly enough as democratic as the state votes we have many gun rights that others do not. I don't even need a CCW permit. Then again the state allows civil unions and small amounts of personal use narcotics depending on where within the state you are. The fact is that Vermont goes beyond liberal and in some ways is libertarian. . 3. Often the places with the most strict gun legislation are also the places with the highest crime rates. This again leads back to the general discomfort thing once again. On a side note I hope this is just one part of your thought process and is not your A #1 deciding factor. Vermonter

January 17, 2011, 09:49 PM	#17
Shane Tuttle Staff Join Date: November 28, 2005 Location: Blue Grass, IA Posts: 8,209	All things relative, you are a young 'un, pichon! __________________ If it were up to me, the word "got" would be deleted from the English language. Posting and YOU: http://www.albinoblacksheep.com/flash/posting

January 18, 2011, 05:04 PM	#18
Mr. James Senior Member Join Date: April 10, 2001 Location: The Old Dominion Posts: 1,500	Hi, pichon, Mr. Meyer has spoken well of the proper priorities here. Of the listed choices, I'd take Washington - but then, I'm biased, having spent some of the best years of my life in the Seattle area. If all else is equal, you'll find the Spokane area is more gun-friendly than the Puget Sound basin. But you can't beat the scenery in Western Washington. But, as Mr. Meyer noted, the top priority is to get into the best law school you can! Oh, and stay the heck away from Stockton! God bless and good luck with your education. __________________ "...A humble and contrite heart, O God, thou wilt not despise." Ps. li "When law and morality contradict each other, the citizen has the cruel alternative of either losing his moral sense or losing his respect for the law." —Frederic Bastiat

January 18, 2011, 09:34 PM	#19
Doodlebugger45 Senior Member Join Date: April 15, 2009 Location: Wyoming Posts: 1,717	I would rule California out even if I didn't own a gun. My daughter faced a similar choice when she picked a vet school. She grew up in Wyoming, went to U of Wyo in Laramie for 4 years. She got accepted into Colo State right off the bat and figured Ft. Collins wouldn't be all that different than Laramie. But she found out Colorado is a world of difference than Wyoming when it comes to culture (some may scoff that Wyoming has no culture, but that's culture also). Rather than commit to CSU right away, she checked out the vet schools at Oregon St, Washington St, Minnesota. She decided Oregon St was a little too liberal for her tastes. I was actually surprised she picked Washington State there in Pullman. After visiting the campus, I was pleasantly surprised. Eastern Washington isn't as redneck as Wyoming is, but it's a nice place and the people are close to normal. I'm guessing Spokane would be similar. Without knowing anything at all about the deal you might be getting from one school or the other, I would pick Spokane just based on the quality of life. But that's my judgement, not yours. I was born and raised in Utah also, but not the big city part of it. I come from Carbon County, so I'm definitely a redneck hick type. Good luck.

January 18, 2011, 10:12 PM	#20
wally626 Senior Member Join Date: July 31, 2009 Posts: 615	Of those cities listed I would choose Spokane, it has the weather and climate closest to Utah, and WA has pretty good gun laws.

January 20, 2011, 09:23 AM	#21
BlueTrain Senior Member Join Date: September 26, 2005 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 5,809	Move to Virginia, to my neighborhood. We even have a stake right around the corner, if that's the right word. And there are lots of jobs for lawyers in DC and besides, you'd have me for a neighbor. __________________ Shoot low, sheriff. They're riding Shetlands! Underneath the starry flag, civilize 'em with a Krag, and return us to our own beloved homes! Buy War Bonds.

January 21, 2011, 03:42 AM	#23
Jake Balam Senior Member Join Date: January 14, 2011 Location: 360 Washington Posts: 160	Having lived in Washington my whole life, I would steer clear of Spokompton. It is not a very pretty, or safe city. Also the weather on the west side of the mountains is much more mild.

January 21, 2011, 08:07 AM	#24
BlueTrain Senior Member Join Date: September 26, 2005 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 5,809	West of Kansas? Odd restriction. I have two children attending George Mason now, including the one who served in the army and who I am always talking about. There is a statue of George Mason himself on campus (who happens to be my wife's great-something grandfather but he had many, many descendents). George Mason had something to do with the 2nd Admendment, you know. There's also an even larger statue of Confuscious but I don't think we're related. However, the school I went to had a statue of a mountaineer out in front of the student union building (the Mountainlair) and sure enough, he has a rifle. __________________ Shoot low, sheriff. They're riding Shetlands! Underneath the starry flag, civilize 'em with a Krag, and return us to our own beloved homes! Buy War Bonds.