The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > The Hide > The Art of the Rifle: General

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old January 9, 2011, 11:23 PM   #1
Ultra12
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 15, 2010
Location: NYC
Posts: 160
243 22-250 270 7mm-08 25-06 7.62-54 etc

hey guys this is not "whats a better cal" post, I am simply looking for a target rifle that is not to "heavy on the pocket" for bullets but also has a good trajectory. I shot my buddies rem 700 in 22-250 and it was good but the bullets are as expensive as my 30-06. my mosin is fun to shoot and bullets are cheap but not sure if its a good "target" rifle although like i mentioned cheap to shoot. I am not considering 223 i want a little more "umphhh". Most likely i will be getting a Sako (like my 3006) and i just cant decide on a caliber.

What would you recommend? Also i do not hand load. i might eventually hunt with it. i already have a deer rifle so it might be a varmint gun.

Thanks in advance.
__________________
Abe Lincoln may have freed all men, but Sam Colt made them equal.
Ultra12 is offline  
Old January 9, 2011, 11:29 PM   #2
ndking1126
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 26, 2008
Location: One house left of my neig
Posts: 1,653
How far do you plan on shooting? Conventional knowledge will tell you .308 is good for 800-1000 yards. Anything farther than that will require a bigger cartridge and your ammo cost goes up quite a bit.

.308 and .223 are known for being some of the cheapest bullets to shoot. However remember that you if you are looking for match accuracy, you will have to step up to match bullets. And they aren't cheap regardless of what caliber you shoot. .308 in milsurp/steel cased will likely run you about $.40 a round. Typical hunting ammo will probably cost about $.75-$1 a round, while match ammo will probably cost $1.50 or more a round. (Haven't checked prices in a couple of months, I'm just throwing out general numbers to give you an idea).

And if you don't mind me asking, how does finding a place to shoot in/around NYC work? I would guess you'd have quite a drive to the nearest range.. and it probably isn't cheap to shoot there.
__________________
The Jeep has been a lot of fun, but time to come back to my first hobby.. shooting.
ndking1126 is offline  
Old January 9, 2011, 11:39 PM   #3
Ultra12
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 15, 2010
Location: NYC
Posts: 160
i have a range in Long Island about 60 miles ride and they have 200 yards about $15 fee a day. i would do most of my shooting there, a buddy is a member at a range in NJ that goes up to 300 yards, and a 2 hour ride to Bear mountain will give me access to 600 yards. like i mention i want it to double as varmint gun as well.
__________________
Abe Lincoln may have freed all men, but Sam Colt made them equal.
Ultra12 is offline  
Old January 10, 2011, 12:31 AM   #4
jimbob86
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 4, 2007
Location: All the way to NEBRASKA
Posts: 7,109
Do the Math.

"Rather than search for the best rifle, strive to shoot up to the capabilities of the one you have."- Jeff Cooper

Cooper wrote on this topic 30+years ago, and still folks are wasting tons of money hopping from gun to gun, looking for the latest and greatest......

...... He essentially said, take the money you were going to spend on a new rifle and buy some ammo, and you know...... actually practice.

I'd add that if you want to practice much with ammo prices are what they are these days, learn to handload.

Quote:
I shot my buddies rem 700 in 22-250 and it was good but the bullets are as expensive as my 30-06.
The answer is:

Handload. Pick a caliber, get a Lee 50th Anniversary kit, dies and components....... Savings will pay for the initial outlay in 400 rounds or so.

Box of 30-06 factory ammo = $19.00/20

.30 150 gr bullets (100 for $26) = $.26 ea.

large rifle primers $.03 ea

1 lb H 414 powder $21 (makes about 130 rounds) $.17/round

Brass you should already have.... you are saving and scrounging, right?

Lee 50th anniversary kit and deluxe die set, case length guage = $192

$.26+.03+.17= $.46/ round (can be cheaper if you buy components in bulk)

Factory ammo (cheap Federal Power shock, on sale at Cabela's) is $.95 a pop.

$.95-.46= $.49 savings per round.

Buy your components in bulk and the savings increase.

Warning: You will not save any money (you'll just shoot more...... enough to shoot up to the capabilities of your rifle, maybe...... and that is a worthy goal. ....... and you can't help bu learn a few things along the way).
__________________
TheGolden Rule of Tool Use: "If you don't know what you are doing, DON'T."

http://nefirearm.com/
jimbob86 is offline  
Old January 10, 2011, 12:46 AM   #5
Buzzcook
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 29, 2007
Location: Everett, WA
Posts: 5,651
600yds max range target rifle and you want it to double as a varmint gun.
I don't understand why you don't want the .223, it's pretty much perfect for what you describe.

Of the cartridges you mention, I like the .243.
Buzzcook is offline  
Old January 10, 2011, 12:52 AM   #6
jimbob86
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 4, 2007
Location: All the way to NEBRASKA
Posts: 7,109
Quote:
like i mention i want it to double as varmint gun as well.

Another beauty of handloading is that you can make loads tailored to your needs: Want to shoot prairie dogs or woodchucks? You can launch a 110gr V-Max @ 3400 f/sec with your 30/06. Or make reduced loads for saving pelts: 110 gr FMJ RN @ 2,000 f/sec........ Or hunt moose or bear with a 200 gr bonded bullet @ 2500 f/sec ..... or whitetail with a 150 gr SP @ 2,800 ....... going after pronghorn out west someday? Berger makes really sleek long range hunting bullets...... Want to plink all day at cans? Reduced 100 grain semi-jacketed loads can be made really cheaply...... cast lead bullets are cheaper yet......
__________________
TheGolden Rule of Tool Use: "If you don't know what you are doing, DON'T."

http://nefirearm.com/
jimbob86 is offline  
Old January 10, 2011, 03:47 AM   #7
700cdl
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 6, 2010
Posts: 216
If your looking for a cartridge that will perform very well and doesn't cost and arm and a leg to shoot I would deffinitely go with the .270 win. cartridge. It about the same cost to shoot factory as is the 30-06 and delivers trajectory superior to that of the 30-06 and also has what it akes for most North American game. I've killed Elk, Deer, Bear, and Antelope with mine without even needing a second shot.
However, if you really want to get more bang for the buck, and more importantly get all the obtainable performance of your rifle, consider taking up hand loading. I shoot a rather expensive cartridge, 7mm rem. mag. which is in the $40 per 20 round box, thats for a fairly standard factory round. But to hand load for it, I can shoot optimum performing loads for about $10 per 20 round box, and even less if I buy my powder, and bullets in bulk. Whats even more inspirational about hand loading, is the really good loads produce performance unobtainable from factory, at any expense. Some companies do offer custom loaded ammunition using your brass, but at a cost of up to $100 per 20 round box. One other positive point of hand loading is that brass that has been fired through your rifle takes on the characteristics of the chamber, which is by the way very different of that of a factory round.
700cdl is offline  
Old January 10, 2011, 06:38 AM   #8
pabuckslayer08
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 18, 2010
Location: South Central Pa
Posts: 692
.270 or .260 for past 600, .243 for within 600
pabuckslayer08 is offline  
Old January 10, 2011, 06:51 AM   #9
mag41vance
Member
 
Join Date: August 5, 2005
Location: Central VA
Posts: 23
Of the ones mentioned;
243 Winchester has a great offering of components for the reloader, and factory stuff for the novice shooter.
Also the 243 is easy on the shooter and will do just about anything you want in a Rifle.
__________________
That's an X
mag41vance is offline  
Old January 10, 2011, 07:52 AM   #10
taylorce1
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 18, 2005
Location: On the Santa Fe Trail
Posts: 5,588
I don't get not wanting a .223 either! What he wants to do is perfect for a .223 with a 1:9 or 1:7 twist rate. Ammo might be a little more expensive than regular 55 grain ammo, but to get 600 yards you are going to need bullets in the 70 grain range. The .223 has plenty of "oomph" to kill varmints at that range as well.

If your not going to hand load the .223 makes more sense than any other listed. If you aren't going to consider the .223 then the .243 makes the obvious choice out of your list. Even then it isn't going to give you much savings vs. your .30-06.
taylorce1 is offline  
Old January 10, 2011, 07:56 AM   #11
DiscoRacing
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 19, 2008
Location: milton, wv
Posts: 3,640
Quote:
also has a good trajectory.
IM with Taylor

What does the miltary use??

Get the .223

I have three of em.
__________________
Desert Eagle Alliance Group Launcher Extraordinaire ______
----Get Busy Live'n.....Or....Get Busy Die'n......Red
-------They call me Dr. Bob,,,, I have a PhD in S&W
DiscoRacing is offline  
Old January 10, 2011, 10:32 AM   #12
hooligan1
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 18, 2010
Location: Independence Missouri
Posts: 3,451
.223, or the .243... of the few listed they will do what you want if you can. +1 Taylorce1,
__________________
Thanks for coming!
hooligan1 is offline  
Old January 10, 2011, 10:50 AM   #13
Ultra12
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 15, 2010
Location: NYC
Posts: 160
perhaps i should look in to 223. i am surprised no one mentioned 22-250 or 25-06
__________________
Abe Lincoln may have freed all men, but Sam Colt made them equal.
Ultra12 is offline  
Old January 10, 2011, 11:06 AM   #14
pinetree
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 5, 2001
Location: Cumming GA
Posts: 625
Bullets of the 30-06 are more pricey than the others??? A quick glance at Midway shows they are about the same.

Save your money and get a reloading setup. My primary long range gun is a 30-06. I haven't shot factory 30-06 in 12 years.

I would look at a varmint 223. You mention something with more power, but don't you already have the 30-06?
pinetree is offline  
Old January 10, 2011, 11:11 AM   #15
jimbob86
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 4, 2007
Location: All the way to NEBRASKA
Posts: 7,109
Quote:
I would look at a varmint 223. You mention something with more power, but don't you already have the 30-06?
More power? A 30-06 will push a 110gr v-max to 3400 f/sec ...... pink mist don't get much mistier than that.

I say again: The best gun is the one you already have. Strive to shoot up to the capabilities of that gun......
__________________
TheGolden Rule of Tool Use: "If you don't know what you are doing, DON'T."

http://nefirearm.com/
jimbob86 is offline  
Old January 10, 2011, 11:12 AM   #16
Ultra12
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 15, 2010
Location: NYC
Posts: 160
yes i do have 30-06 sako, its my hunting rifle. barrel gets hot after few shots and must cool down. i am looking for a new rifle w/heavy barrel so i can shoot more without it getting too hot.
__________________
Abe Lincoln may have freed all men, but Sam Colt made them equal.
Ultra12 is offline  
Old January 10, 2011, 11:38 AM   #17
UniversalFrost
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 20, 2006
Location: West Virginia
Posts: 2,298
.243 is all that you need for most animals an average hunter would encounter in north america. The barnes bullets are just awesome in the 6mm offerings and have brought down many a large midwest whitetail and muley for me all the way out to 300yds with ease.

get a 30/06 for the larger critters that see you as the main entree on the menu or for elk and and moose.

many will argue that 308 is a do all chambering and no need for the 06' , but not too many 308 guns have the proper twist rate to handle the heavier bullets beyond 180gr.

For me, all my guns are fun guns, with the exception of my first rifle in .243 (a 98 GEW mauser that was very well sporterized by a master gunsmith years ago) and then my 30/06 (winchester post 64 model 70). Both sport iron sights and scopes (3-9x40) and both are proven performers (.243 has taken many many deer, yotes, 2 mt lions and 3 antelope, while the 30/06 has taken a black bear, a moose, 4 elk, a caribou and a handful of deer).

if you can have 2 center fire rifles, the .243 and the 30/06 are what you need.
__________________
Lifetime member VFW and NRA

"Quando Omni Flunkus Moritati" (when all else fails play dead) -Red Green

UniversalFrost is offline  
Old January 10, 2011, 12:00 PM   #18
DiscoRacing
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 19, 2008
Location: milton, wv
Posts: 3,640
Quote:
i am surprised no one mentioned 22-250
I have that also.. .
... but..

... I dont consider it much/if any advantage over .223

... but it DOES take more powder to reload...

... that just translates to more cost for little or no improvement.
__________________
Desert Eagle Alliance Group Launcher Extraordinaire ______
----Get Busy Live'n.....Or....Get Busy Die'n......Red
-------They call me Dr. Bob,,,, I have a PhD in S&W
DiscoRacing is offline  
Old January 10, 2011, 12:04 PM   #19
DiscoRacing
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 19, 2008
Location: milton, wv
Posts: 3,640
Quote:
More power? A 30-06 will push a 110gr v-max to 3400 f/sec ...... pink mist don't get much mistier than that.
I have to agree with Jimbob on this one tho..

... thats what I use for most killn

...My Howa in 30-06 shows no mercy...and it doesnt take many seconds from shot to hit...to find that fact out.

__________________
Desert Eagle Alliance Group Launcher Extraordinaire ______
----Get Busy Live'n.....Or....Get Busy Die'n......Red
-------They call me Dr. Bob,,,, I have a PhD in S&W
DiscoRacing is offline  
Old January 10, 2011, 12:12 PM   #20
brandondferrier
Member
 
Join Date: January 1, 2011
Posts: 25
get .243

lots of bullet weights and options.

you can get 55GR. bullets going around 4,000 ft/sec
or can get 100GR bullets going around 3,000 ft/sec

a great gun to shoot and very accurate.
will double as an awesome varmint gun as well.
that is what i use and i love it.
brandondferrier is offline  
Old January 10, 2011, 12:17 PM   #21
jimbob86
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 4, 2007
Location: All the way to NEBRASKA
Posts: 7,109
There ain't many problems

A man can't fix

With 700 Dollars

And a Thirty Aught Six......

You have a perfectly adequate gun for any ballistic problem in North America..... a bit of skull sweat, elbow grease, and practice might be required, too, but it will work.

As for barrel heat being an issue ......."You can either shoot well, or shoot a lot."
__________________
TheGolden Rule of Tool Use: "If you don't know what you are doing, DON'T."

http://nefirearm.com/
jimbob86 is offline  
Old January 10, 2011, 10:04 PM   #22
ndking1126
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 26, 2008
Location: One house left of my neig
Posts: 1,653
.25-06 is a wonderful round, but it is expensive.
__________________
The Jeep has been a lot of fun, but time to come back to my first hobby.. shooting.
ndking1126 is offline  
Old January 16, 2011, 08:44 AM   #23
Peter M. Eick
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 3, 1999
Location: Houston, Texas
Posts: 2,899
I agree. I have more 25/06's then any other caliber I shoot now. I never realized that till I just considered it. Great round as a reloader but I admit that 6mm and 7mm bullets are cheaper.

If I were to just pick one today, I would go 7/08. My 7/08 is a good accurate round and off the shelf ammo is readily available.

22/250 would be my second choice for a non-reloader.

As a reloader, I do them all. I just prefer my 25/06's.
__________________
10mm and 357sig, the best things to come along since the 38 super!
Peter M. Eick is offline  
Old January 16, 2011, 05:08 PM   #24
ropencut
Member
 
Join Date: January 25, 2009
Posts: 23
I gotta agree with Jimbob. I think you can make about any gun shoot better by loading your own. First gun I ever loaded for was a sportsterized 1917 enfield I got for an elk gun. It shot about 6 inch groups. I changed scopes and put a timney trigger in it both helped and then I started loading, first 20 rounds I loaded brought it down to about 2. If I had a real bench it would do better.
ropencut is offline  
Old January 16, 2011, 05:20 PM   #25
IDAHO83501
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 2, 2009
Location: Lewiston, Idaho
Posts: 337
.243

A little more pwoer than a .223???
that sounds like a .243 Winchester to me, or maybe a 25-06. Both are quite a bit more powerful than a .223 and yet felt recoil is minimal compared to much of the other rounds you mentioned except a 22-250, or 220 Swift.
__________________
The next time someone asks you " What do you know ? " Respond with a smile and say " A frogs ass is water-tight."
IDAHO83501 is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:48 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2014 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.13425 seconds with 9 queries