The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > Hogan's Alley > Tactics and Training

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old April 6, 2011, 02:52 PM   #1
WeedWacker
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 13, 2006
Location: Body: Clarkston, Washington. Soul: LaCrosse, Wisconsin
Posts: 1,532
Looking for Tactical house clearing article

there was an article I remember where they set up a scenario with a home invader and the "home owner" had to search out this individual. they performed this with simulation arms (air-soft or simmunition) and I remember the homeowner usually wasn't in the favorable outcome the majority of the time. I believe I got the link from this forum but I can't remember where. Anyone have any ideas?
__________________
- Weed
Disequilibrium facilitates accommodation.
9mm vs 45 ACP? The answer is 42.
WeedWacker is offline  
Old April 7, 2011, 09:12 AM   #2
Don P
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 17, 2005
Location: Florida
Posts: 4,825
Not about the link your looking for. Call 911 and let the pros clear the house. It has been suggested on this forum before that it would be best if arriving home to find the door ajar calling 911 and let LE clear the house.
__________________
NRA Life Member, NRA Range Safety Officer, IDPA Safety Officer, USPSA NROI Range Officer
As you are, I once was, As I am, You will be.
Don P is offline  
Old April 7, 2011, 01:06 PM   #3
skifast
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 19, 2008
Posts: 226
I agree that house clearing is not something one person wants to do by himself. That being said, if one of my children was in danger, I would clear my house. Clint Smith put out a good video. I am sure there are others.
skifast is offline  
Old April 7, 2011, 09:41 PM   #4
raimius
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 27, 2008
Posts: 1,360
One-man clearing can be done, but it leaves you with 1:1 odds at best. It is NOT a preferred method!

Rule 2 of gunfighting: Bring all your friends who have guns.
raimius is online now  
Old April 8, 2011, 04:10 AM   #5
WeedWacker
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 13, 2006
Location: Body: Clarkston, Washington. Soul: LaCrosse, Wisconsin
Posts: 1,532
Quote:
Not about the link your looking for. Call 911 and let the pros clear the house. It has been suggested on this forum before that it would be best if arriving home to find the door ajar calling 911 and let LE clear the house.
Which was the point of the article I'm looking for. I found another one but it was a scenario where the individual was in a conveinience store as an off duty cop and was searching out the BG. The bad guy won most of the time. It was intended to prove the point to call backup and hold position rather than seeking a threat in an unknown location.
__________________
- Weed
Disequilibrium facilitates accommodation.
9mm vs 45 ACP? The answer is 42.
WeedWacker is offline  
Old April 8, 2011, 09:17 AM   #6
Glenn E. Meyer
Staff
 
Join Date: November 17, 2000
Posts: 15,836
One source for such is Mas Ayoob referencing his experience at the NTI. Where he actually wrote it - dunno.

But I've seen it in such. At an advance tac course at Karl Rehn's - the newbies who wandered out to engage the bad guys were quite embarassed and sometimes knocked on their cans.

Now all BGs aren't going to be skilled opponents but that's the way it goes. My experience as a person in cover is that the entering team is at a significant disadvantage without overwhelming force and tactics.
__________________
NRA, TSRA, IDPA, NTI, Polite Soc.
http://www.teddytactical.com/archive...05_Feature.htm
Being an Academic Shooter
http://www.teddytactical.com/archive...11_Feature.htm
Being an Active Shooter
Glenn E. Meyer is offline  
Old April 8, 2011, 10:08 AM   #7
Don P
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 17, 2005
Location: Florida
Posts: 4,825
Quote:
Now all BGs aren't going to be skilled opponents but that's the way it goes. My experience as a person in cover is that the entering team is at a significant disadvantage without overwhelming force and tactics.
I concur and as I stated call da FUZZ
__________________
NRA Life Member, NRA Range Safety Officer, IDPA Safety Officer, USPSA NROI Range Officer
As you are, I once was, As I am, You will be.
Don P is offline  
Old April 8, 2011, 02:38 PM   #8
markj
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 27, 2005
Location: Crescent Iowa
Posts: 2,969
Open door, let 80- lbs of mean in and listen for the screams to subside, then I know it is all clear in there and head for the mop and a bucket...
markj is offline  
Old April 8, 2011, 04:41 PM   #9
Sleuth
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 27, 2002
Location: Arizona
Posts: 445
During my career in Law Enforcement, I have searched some houses for bad guys. Even with trained, experienced backup on hand, it was an "E Ticket Ride" each and every time.

And if you think your dog will always win, sadly an outlaw prepared to kill a person cares nothing about shooting your dog.

So, like all the others here, TAKE COVER AND CALL THE POLICE!

Nuff said.
__________________
Sleuth
Sleuth is offline  
Old April 8, 2011, 05:03 PM   #10
jimbob86
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 4, 2007
Location: All the way to NEBRASKA
Posts: 7,109
I only saw the "Looking For Tactical House" on the New Posts list ....I imediately thought that such a thing would jus be a regular house, painted black, with plastic furniture...... with an inflated price....
__________________
TheGolden Rule of Tool Use: "If you don't know what you are doing, DON'T."

http://nefirearm.com/
jimbob86 is offline  
Old April 8, 2011, 06:37 PM   #11
TeamSinglestack
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 6, 2010
Posts: 166
Quote:
Open door, let 80- lbs of mean in and listen for the screams to subside, then I know it is all clear in there and head for the mop and a bucket...
LOL!

A 4 legged, furry, flash-bang-with-teeth, can certainly make life a lot easier for the good guys.



Quote:
At an advance tac course at Karl Rehn's - the newbies who wandered out to engage the bad guys were quite embarassed and sometimes knocked on their cans.
A lot of that has to do with what conditions are placed on the participants.

1 on 1 in a building, where the only goal of the participants is to survive, the individual that remains in a static defensive position is going to have the advantage. Change the conditions, and the results may change as well.

A home owner can have advantages over a home invader, depending on the conditions, that can certainly warrant taking a more aggressive approach than simply establishing a static defensive position.
-Early warning due to a compromised breach of the premises.
-Familiarity with the layout of the premises.
-Stealth and surprise.
-Firepower.
-Mindset.

Home invaders may be solely focused on finding and securing valuables, employ little to no security, and easily susceptible to the stealthy approach of a home owner from an unexpected location, or an ambush.

While the safest approach is to simply hunker down and pull security on the door / hall, this is not necessarily the ONLY approach available, and largely dependent on the conditions at any given time, your individual limitations, and the risk you are willing to accept.

While I wouldn't risk attempting to clear an unfamiliar home solo, given the right conditions and a favorable risk assessment, there would be times that I would opt to clear my own home.
TeamSinglestack is offline  
Old April 8, 2011, 07:37 PM   #12
Mr. Davis
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 8, 2009
Location: South Carolina
Posts: 127
Jeez, people, read the original post before commenting.

He's looking for a link to an article that talks about why house clearing by yourself is a BAD idea. Most responders are just sermonizing about the fallacy of house clearing. Based on the OP, you're preaching to the choir.

I don't know where the article is but I'd encourage you to Google using keywords such as "Airsoft" and "Force on Force".
__________________
Ultima Ratio Civis - A Citizen's Final Argument
Mr. Davis is offline  
Old April 8, 2011, 08:03 PM   #13
Don P
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 17, 2005
Location: Florida
Posts: 4,825
All from a Google search


http://www.wikihow.com/Clear-a-Building-with-a-Firearm

http://www.armedfemalesofamerica.com...ngyourhome.htm

http://www.shootingillustrated.com/3...ouse-clearing/

http://www.angelfire.com/art/enchanter/drkcr.html

http://www.google.com/search?sourcei...552c02145427b5

And this from this forum six pages and 133 posts, http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=314788
__________________
NRA Life Member, NRA Range Safety Officer, IDPA Safety Officer, USPSA NROI Range Officer
As you are, I once was, As I am, You will be.
Don P is offline  
Old April 13, 2011, 03:49 PM   #14
markj
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 27, 2005
Location: Crescent Iowa
Posts: 2,969
Quote:
And if you think your dog will always win, sadly an outlaw prepared to kill a person cares nothing about shooting your dog
I know this well, I had a pit bull years ago, a guy came in had a 38, dog took it away but was shot in his head doing so. Dog lived guy had it real bad after that, sold the gun to a friend after checking the serial for stolen. I was in bed when this happened. A good dog will lay down his life for you. might give ya enough time to get away to a safe place.

When I was 15 someone broke into the house while dad and mom were on a vacation. I called 911 and let them go thru the house. Found where he went in and went out.
markj is offline  
Old April 13, 2011, 04:37 PM   #15
fastbolt
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 9, 2002
Location: northern CA for a little while longer
Posts: 1,505
Like many other folks who spent a career in LE, I've had circumstances arise where I had to clear a small-to medium size structure myself. It's definitely not the preferred method. The advantage is not typically yours when you're the sole searcher.

Clearing a structure is best done at least as a 2-person team, at a minimum. Having a K9 available can be better, depending ...

Someone searching a structure, even if it's one with which the searching person is familiar, can easily place the searcher at a disadvantage. If nothing else, the searcher has to look, see and recognize any differences among the familiar environment, often under reduced/low light conditions ... while the person(s) being sought only have to react to incoming movement (against the still background) and/or noise.

Call 911 and let the folks who practice this sort of thing and are (hopefully) practiced in performing this sort of task together, do their thing.

Naturally, it's preferable, if at all possible, to not be inside the structure yourself as they do their thing. Unnecessary distractions and surprises occurring in elevated stress situations situations are best avoided, when possible.
__________________
Retired LE - firearms instructor & armorer
fastbolt is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:51 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2014 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.12316 seconds with 9 queries