The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > The Skunkworks > Handloading, Reloading, and Bullet Casting

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old September 17, 2016, 08:08 PM   #1
NorthernBlue
Member
 
Join Date: July 29, 2016
Location: Alaska
Posts: 22
First Real Attempts at "Accuracy"

So I was given a 3x Vortex Spitfire prism scope for my birthday. I stuck it on my Ruger AR556 and took to the range with a few different loads. I did some small 5 shot groups yesterday which showed me what range to get in as well as approx velocities as I had access to a chrono.

I settled on H335 to push 60gr VMAX and 68gr BTHP as BLC2 wasn't doing so hot for me.

See the photos for targets and data from today. There were a few malfuctions, one of the was a double feed, so I tossed those two rounds and the others were just failure to fires due to a bad primer.

I am not seeing a huge different in the groupings, I am sure that has everything to do with myself and my low powder scope. Just looking for general thoughts from fellow reloaders.



60gr VMAX 24, 24.5, 25 gr of H335 and a CCI 450 Primer




NorthernBlue is offline  
Old September 17, 2016, 08:09 PM   #2
NorthernBlue
Member
 
Join Date: July 29, 2016
Location: Alaska
Posts: 22
68gr BTHP 23.8, 24, 24.2, 24.5gr of H335 and a CCI 450 Primer






NorthernBlue is offline  
Old September 18, 2016, 02:15 PM   #3
John C
Member
 
Join Date: July 28, 2005
Posts: 71
For a first attempt, that looks pretty good. However, I think you need to establish a baseline accuracy for your rifle. How good of a shooter are you? Maybe you might ask a friend who's a really good rifle shooter (a match shooter) shoot your rifle and see how much of error is you versus the rifle.

Also, you can try shooting your rifle (or better yet, have your good shooter shoot your rifle) with match grade factory ammo, like Federal Gold Medal Match. At that point, you'll know what your rifle can do, what you can do, and what you and your rifle can do. Then add your reloads, and understand how they're doing. There are a lot of variables.

At that point, if you want more accuracy, then you can start tweaking your rifle. A free floating hand guard, match trigger, and shimming the receiver fit can tighten things up. You can also work on shooting better groups.
John C is offline  
Old September 18, 2016, 03:23 PM   #4
Reloadron
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 8, 2016
Location: Cleveland, Ohio Suburbs
Posts: 246
Not bad at all and with time. patience and practice the groups will shrink. If you didn't use any, you may want to get some sand bags or similar and shoot off the bags or similar rest. Nice job of keeping track of the targets and load data. I noticed the outside air temp and then the location. Alaska is beginning to show its beautiful Fall colors look.

Ron
Reloadron is offline  
Old September 18, 2016, 03:33 PM   #5
RC20
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 10, 2008
Location: Alaska
Posts: 2,664
Rabbit Creek Range.

I don't know the accuracy level of the rifle.

However, to wring it out you need a front and rear rest, then you can start to see.

Frustrating process until you get a good load and can see the gains or losses as you change it, COAL, as well as other powders and bullet combos.
RC20 is offline  
Old September 18, 2016, 08:18 PM   #6
NorthernBlue
Member
 
Join Date: July 29, 2016
Location: Alaska
Posts: 22
Thanks for the response guys. I will pick up some match ammo and give a shot next weekend. Should I shoot all 20 rounds at one target or do 3, 5, or 10 shot groups? I figure 10 and 20 shot groups give a good averaging effect.

I have some bags I was using, but the front ones are a little small for an AR so I used one of the white sandbags they have laying around for the front, however, the little green rear bag worked fine.

Online reviews show people shooting 1 MOA group with this rifle, but then again I don't know what they aren't showing either.

I have about 1500 rounds through this rifle and while I clean the bore with Hoppes 9, I never did a good copper fouling removal. I got some Hoppes Benchrest bore cleaner and I have been pulling out blue patches all day, re applying and pulling more blue patches out. I don't know if that will make a difference or not.

Further, with the 3x scope, I found it hard to always be sure I was aiming exactly at the same spot each time at 100 yards....is that normal?
NorthernBlue is offline  
Old September 18, 2016, 08:41 PM   #7
FM12
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 5, 2007
Location: Monroeville, Alabama
Posts: 1,636
Don't knock your groups. I've had mini14s that wouldn't stay on a double newspaper target at 100 yards.

If H335 cant get it done, give up.
FM12 is offline  
Old September 20, 2016, 08:24 PM   #8
Mobuck
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 2, 2010
Posts: 4,279
I don't see much advantage to shooting 8, 10, or 20 shots on a single bull other than getting trigger time. We shoot 3 shots per bull until the accuracy questions are worked out and then go back to put additional shots on the targets for practice or zero confirmations.
A 3x scope should give you the potential for better accuracy than 3-4 MOA. I just turned over an AR to a customer after some customizing and mounting a Vortex dot last weekend. The customer's groups were in the 1" range at 50 yards. Mine were 1/2 that and I'm a geezer.
Mobuck is offline  
Old September 23, 2016, 09:16 PM   #9
NorthernBlue
Member
 
Join Date: July 29, 2016
Location: Alaska
Posts: 22
Did a few more targets today.

Below you have 60gr VMAX loaded over 25gr of H335 and two targets are lit by a 450 primer and the other two a 400 primer...just I had them, so I tired them to see what different it would make. I see none.







NorthernBlue is offline  
Old September 23, 2016, 09:20 PM   #10
NorthernBlue
Member
 
Join Date: July 29, 2016
Location: Alaska
Posts: 22
Here are some targets where I shot Hornady 55gr TAP FPD, IMI 69gr HPBT, and IMI 77gr HPBT















So I think it has much more to do with me then they rifle or ammo. I know the Ruger AR556 isn't a match rifle, its just a basic AR15 Carbine.
NorthernBlue is offline  
Old September 24, 2016, 07:53 AM   #11
Reloadron
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 8, 2016
Location: Cleveland, Ohio Suburbs
Posts: 246
Quote:
Below you have 60gr VMAX loaded over 25gr of H335 and two targets are lit by a 450 primer and the other two a 400 primer...just I had them, so I tired them to see what different it would make. I see none.
Have you come up with a good steady rest off the bags? As to primers I played that game this summer. The following represents 4 ten shot groups using all CCI primers. I was shooting more to get velocities than groups but as can be seen, using identical loads and brass the CCI SR Magnum primers did not really yield the higher velocity and the H335 spherical propellant really did not fare any better with the magnum primers.





The load data was as follows:
Cartridge: .223 Remington
Powder: Hodgdon H-335
Charge Weight: 26.1gn.
Bullet: Sierra 53gn. HP
Brass: LC-11
Brass Trim: 1.750"
C.O.A.L. : 2.250"

Primer #1: CCI-400 SR 3372 FPS
Primer #2: CCI-450 SRM 3366 FPS
Primer #3: CCI-BR4 SRBR 3384 FPS
Primer #4: CCI-#41 Military 3418 FPS

The CCI #41 and CCI 450 are both classified as small rifle magnum primers. While I was not focused on groups the best result actually came from the CCI-#41 Mil Spec type primers. There was no real velocity difference between the CCI-400 and CCI-450 primers as to velocity. The rifle was a modified Remington 700 series with a 1:12 twist rate.

You may want to work on a good bench steady rest and your holding and squeezing with your breathing. Eith practice I am sure your groups will shrink.

Ron
Reloadron is offline  
Old September 24, 2016, 01:06 PM   #12
BWM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 6, 2013
Location: SW IN
Posts: 256
What is the trigger pull weight? That will have a lot to do with your accuracy! I have put Timney in all my AR,S 3 pound or 31/2 pound that will improve your shooting a lot.Let your gun cool down between targets will help also I have also put Timney in my Savages bolt gun that made a big different. GOOD LUCK
__________________
Man that likes guns old Navy.

Last edited by BWM; September 24, 2016 at 01:12 PM.
BWM is offline  
Old September 25, 2016, 12:22 AM   #13
jmorris
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 22, 2006
Posts: 2,267
What do you have as a baseline?


Do you have decent iron sights, a bench, place to sit, factory ammo and a rest where the rifle won't move around?

What does it do there, then make one change at a time. If it doesn't make things better go back, then in another direction.

No reason to chase 4" groups around.

One can completely take the human element out of it like this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6vpDm1bpey4

And even with things that are not "supposed" to be that accurate can do pretty good.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S1L4EJAcnhY

With the above rest the rifle is locked down enough where it won't move that much if you aim it before you load and chamber a round.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ng39ce3Ii_w

Last edited by jmorris; September 25, 2016 at 12:29 AM.
jmorris is offline  
Old September 25, 2016, 11:24 AM   #14
Longshot4
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 22, 2014
Posts: 597
I have seen ARs do better although you are in the right place for starts. I would stay with 10 round groups, 60 Vmax seams to like your twist. 450 primer for now with the powder H 335. Of course a good steady rest is required as most of the other threads have brought up.

Your sight has a size at 100 Yd. and your target should give you a 1/4" larger picture outline. For example if spec. on the sight at 100 Yds. is 1" at 100 Yds. You may need a target of 1 1/2 inch at 100 so you can have a fine 1/4" outline for your gun sight to see it.

I am no expert but perhaps some one on this sight can comment.
Longshot4 is offline  
Old September 25, 2016, 07:45 PM   #15
NorthernBlue
Member
 
Join Date: July 29, 2016
Location: Alaska
Posts: 22
The trigger pull is the stock mil-spec trigger, 6.5 lbs or so I would guess.

My bench rest is just a sand bag as seen in the top photo.

Here is a photo of the sight.


As far as my current technique, when I am firing, I inhale, exhale, and on the pause, press the trigger slowly adding more and more pressure until it breaks the shot. I repeat the process for the follow up shots, usually allowing 10 or 15 seconds between the shots and a few minutes between each group.
NorthernBlue is offline  
Old Yesterday, 09:09 AM   #16
firewrench044
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 9, 2007
Location: Fort Pierce, Florida
Posts: 307
Get a good trigger
( 6 1/2 lb is too stiff )
( it will tighten up your groups )
( helps eliminate you as a problem )

Some prefer a single stage trigger, set at 3 to 3 1/2 lbs

Some prefer, and for competition, a 2 stage trigger, set
at 4 lb 1st stage and 1/2 bl 2nd stage

I prefer a 2 stage

A good trigger is going to cost more but it is worth
the extra expense
firewrench044 is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:21 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2016, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2016 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.09425 seconds with 9 queries