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Old July 9, 2014, 05:52 PM   #1
Captains1911
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IDPA Draw Creating Bad Habits?

I have been into IDPA for a few months now, and thoroughly enjoy it. Like most, I compete with a shooting vest open in the front, and drawing by simply sweeping the vest back out of the way with the strong hand. However it makes me wonder what kind of potentially harmful habits this is creating, considering I carry concealed on a daily basis with clothing that requires the support hand to grab and pull the clothing up out of the way. These are two very different drawing techniques, and obviously it would be less than desirable to attempt the IDPA competion method in a life or death situation while wearing regular clothing.

So what do others think? Do you sacrifice a quicker draw in competion and compete with clothing similar to what you wear everyday to avoid creating bad habits?
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Old July 9, 2014, 06:00 PM   #2
MarkCO
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I shot IDPA for about 4 years...it took me 5 years to break the bad habits.

I shoot freestyle action competition and practice defensive shooting without a timer.
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Old July 9, 2014, 06:07 PM   #3
4thPoint
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Stop competing against 'the other guys.'

Have you tried wearing what you'd normally wear and draw how you'd normally draw? Sure you won't win any prizes in competition but what if the only one you were competing against was yourself?

There are people who shoot GSSF matches with G27's. They'll never win awards but they recognize that. They just want to shoot what they carry to the best of their ability.
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Old July 9, 2014, 06:34 PM   #4
Captains1911
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I understand, the problem is I'm surprisingly good at it and I've been beating most of the "other guys," and it's addictive. But I think this weekend I will compete with normal clothing and see how I fare.
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Old July 9, 2014, 07:34 PM   #5
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I'll second the argument about compete only with yourself. I shot dozens if not hundreds of pin shoots with either my Kimber compact or my CBOB. Going to a Gov't size 1911 certainly shaved time but I did not, on a regular basis carry a Gov't sized pistol.
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Old July 9, 2014, 09:39 PM   #6
1-DAB
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I just started IDPA. I use the same gear I carry every day. I'm in it to learn and improve.

I finished dead last Saturday. Had a blast, learned a lot.
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Old July 9, 2014, 09:58 PM   #7
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I mostly shoot USPSA but when I compete in a IDPA event I always wear my normal street clothes and carry set up.a T-shirt in the summer and a flannel or light jacket in the cooler months.
I really just didn't want to be another dude in a 5.11 vest. Nothing against 5.11, I own a good amount of clothes they sell but I've never been that much a fisherman.
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Old July 9, 2014, 11:13 PM   #8
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Quote:
Do you sacrifice a quicker draw in competion and compete with clothing similar to what you wear everyday to avoid creating bad habits?
Are you competing to get very good at competing or are you competing as a form of self-defense training?

If it's the former, do what gets you the best score.
If the latter, then do what teaches you the best habits.
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Old July 10, 2014, 09:49 AM   #9
mete
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Compete against yourself only. Don't get into the "game" stuff . Forget the gadgets .What you normally carry ,gun holster ,sometimes at least with jacket. Always go for smooth actions , speed will come in time.
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Old July 10, 2014, 10:13 AM   #10
MrBorland
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IDPA's a game, not SD training. Get SD training if you need it.

Personally, I feel there's nothing wrong with "gaming" it, and no one has a monopoly on how it "ought" to be shot. If you do shoot it to be competitive, and you're concerned about bad habits, I suggest actually practicing on your own with your EDC gear (something you should be doing anyway), rather than solely relying on a form of competition for that.

If you choose to use your EDC gear, and use the match for training, remember it's your choice to do so, so don't make yourself and others unhappy by whining if you find you're not competitive.
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Old July 10, 2014, 11:02 AM   #11
Captains1911
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Quote:
IDPA's a game, not SD training. Get SD training if you need it.

Personally, I feel there's nothing wrong with "gaming" it, and no one has a monopoly on how it "ought" to be shot. If you do shoot it to be competitive, and you're concerned about bad habits, I suggest actually practicing on your own with your EDC gear (something you should be doing anyway), rather than solely relying on a form of competition for that.

If you choose to use your EDC gear, and use the match for training, remember it's your choice to do so, so don't make yourself and others unhappy by whining if you find you're not competitive.
I have had plenty of self-defense training, and practice plenty on my own. That is why I brought his up in the first place. It is preached that you fall back on training under stressful encounters. If you are "training" with different techniques, and yes I consider IDPA a form of training, the potential is there to make a costly mistake at the worst possible time.

I'm not sure where the "whining" comment came from....
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Old July 10, 2014, 11:16 AM   #12
MrBorland
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Captains1911
I have had plenty of self-defense training, and practice plenty on my own. That is why I brought his up in the first place. It is preached that you fall back on training under stressful encounters. If you are "training" with different techniques, and yes I consider IDPA a form of training, the potential is there to make a costly mistake at the worst possible time.
Seems you had a concern and were asking others their opinion and what they might suggest. If you were only voicing your opinion, I mis-read.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Captains1911
I'm not sure where the "whining" comment came from....
It wasn't directed towards you. I frequently read comments by those who claim they don't care about the competition part, while, in the same sentence, gripe about others who place higher and who don't share their "I run my EDC" philosophy. It gets old after a while. My suggestion to anyone who participates is to decide how you're going to participate, then do your best, be safe, and have fun.
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Old July 10, 2014, 11:19 AM   #13
RickB
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I'm a big fan of choosing a technique and becoming good at it, rather than chasing every fad technique that comes along.
That said, you might find some situations in competition (and on the street, as well) with a "pick up the X, then draw, then engage . . .", and you will have only one hand available for the draw.
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Old July 11, 2014, 05:07 PM   #14
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one size does not fit all

I'm a huge fan of being flexible, and practicing at matches every way you can.....
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Old July 12, 2014, 02:01 AM   #15
Venom1956
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I've had the reverse issue. I learn to shoot how i'd do in an SD event and when I tried gaming nothing seemed to work out. How I held the gun @ ready, Holstering after shooting, all habits I couldn't really over come.

While I enjoy the concept of the shooting games I've decided not to compete because of how much they conflicted.
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Old July 12, 2014, 02:41 AM   #16
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Is there a IDPA style 'competition' that doesn't involve race guns, race holsters, and soft-loads?

I'm competitive and don't like coming in last against those folks with their fancy equipment who want to win the match.

It would be great if there were folks with their compact pistols and IWB holsters...
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Old July 12, 2014, 11:39 AM   #17
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IDPA particularly excludes those kinds of guns.
USPSA allows them, along with all others in separate divisions.
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Old July 12, 2014, 01:14 PM   #18
WESHOOT2
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I ain't a SEAL

Winning is one thing, if we're just talking games.

Competing to test equipment and certain practices is a different thing.


Competition, IMNSHO, enhances properly delivered professional 'defense' training.
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Old July 12, 2014, 02:06 PM   #19
1-DAB
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not everyone who shows up at an IDPA match is there to 'compete' in the sense of placing first. i have certain goals i'm working on meeting, and none of them include being shown at the top of the score sheet.

chance to safely handle my gun and rig in an organized setting with different scenarios.

chance to meet friends.

chance to spend some time outdoors under God's blue sky.

and some other reasons i'll keep to myself.


shoot safely.
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Old July 12, 2014, 03:54 PM   #20
RickB
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Quote:
I'm a huge fan of being flexible, and practicing at matches every way you can.....
If you mean practice, as in demonstrate, "practice what you preach",that's good, but you do not want to literally practice at matches.
Matches are where you demonstrate your abilities, not where you try new techniques with which you are not thoroughly familiar.
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Old July 12, 2014, 04:05 PM   #21
MrBorland
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leadcounsel
Is there a IDPA style 'competition' that doesn't involve race guns, race holsters, and soft-loads?

I'm competitive and don't like coming in last against those folks with their fancy equipment who want to win the match.

It would be great if there were folks with their compact pistols and IWB holsters...
The majority of the gear used at IDPA matches is pretty standard, and ammo has to make a required Power Factor. Some guys might have some fancy guns, but there's very little correlation between that and the final rankings. A friend of mine is an ESP Distinguished Master, and his favorite gun to use (and win with) is a plain ol' sub-compact Glock 26.

And as a new competitor, you're somewhat unfamiliar with the rules and tactics, so there's a learning curve involved, so it won't be your gun or gear that'll be the hurdle.
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Old July 12, 2014, 06:35 PM   #22
JohnKSa
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Quote:
Competition, IMNSHO, enhances properly delivered professional 'defense' training.
Competition CAN enhance properly delivered training IF it doesn't teach/ingrain techniques which are contrary to the defense training.

Competition can just as easily counteract or nullify properly delivered professional 'defense' training if it teaches or ingrains improper techniques.
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Old July 12, 2014, 06:57 PM   #23
boondocker385
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Just another reason I don't like silly rules.. practice what you actually carry and wear!!!!!
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Old July 12, 2014, 07:32 PM   #24
MarkCO
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Quote:
While I enjoy the concept of the shooting games I've decided not to compete because of how much they conflicted.
That has got to be either the silliest thing I have seen on the topic, or I totally misunderstand the post.

Are you saying you do not compete because it is in conflict with good SD techniques and tactics?

Tactics, yes no game teaches, or practices you for them well. Pure gun handling skill building, the competitive arena does it better than any other.
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Old July 12, 2014, 08:48 PM   #25
Nick_C_S
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Apples n Oranges

For me, IDPA is what I do for entertainment. I CC, but don't consider IDPA (or steel shooting) EDC training. They're apples n oranges.

I only compete against myself (which is code for "I stink" ) And when the buzzer sounds, I don't put a lot of focus on the draw. I'm into accurate shot placement, etc.

P.S. My IDPA (and steel) gun is a M67 38 revolver - dedicated to sport shooting. It does nothing else. I usually CC semi-auto's.
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