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Old December 23, 2010, 09:02 PM   #1
boatmonkey82
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Legal to manufactor full auto parts ?

Just wondering here , if one were to have blue prints of all of the parts needed to convert a weapon to full auto would it be legal to make such parts with out installing them ? from what i understand you can own stuff like auto sears ect but can not install w/o proper papers and a wad of money . And second if you were to make said parts and it were legal to do so then could you go to ATF and get it registered as a class 3 ? Example : 200.00 bucks for a plain ruger 10-22 , manufactor the parts , register it , sell it for 4,000.00 ?
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Old December 23, 2010, 10:42 PM   #2
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No.

Constructive possession will get you 10 years in prison and a felony conviction.
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Old December 23, 2010, 11:04 PM   #3
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Short answer no.

Longer answer, they closed the machine gun registry in 1986. Meaning no new civilian registries of newly manufactured machine guns. Anything on the books before then is fully transferrable with proper background checks, federal forms, and tax stamp, but nothing newly manufactured can be registered.
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Old December 23, 2010, 11:05 PM   #4
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And as Crosshair indicated if you have the parts in your possession and a receiver in your possession in which they will fit, the ATF considers that constructive possession and it's the same penalty as having a fully functioning illegal machine gun.
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Old December 24, 2010, 01:46 AM   #5
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The reason a machinegun would sell for 4000 dollars and up, is because the serial number of that gun is legal for a person to own.

What you would be creating is a LE/Govment only gun and they sell for the same price as a current production semi auto gun.
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Old December 24, 2010, 08:53 AM   #6
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thats kinda stupid . i mean i have gun powder here , i have cannon fuze here , and i have pipe here , all are needed to make a pipe bomb and all are next to each other but is not illegal , UNLESS your in trouble for other things and then they got you for bomb making materials . too many loop holes i guess .
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Old December 24, 2010, 09:20 AM   #7
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It's a gun law, it's not supposed to make sense!
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Old December 24, 2010, 10:51 AM   #8
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It makes perfect sense, it's about intent. Once you have gun powder, fuse, pipe it's all fine until you have intent, or until you talk openly about your intent on the internet.

So if you have a semi auto AR 15, full auto parts, plans for full auto conversions, but no legal reason to have all that, then that is intent. If you add a registered full auto gun that those parts can legally be used in, then it is no longer intent because you have a legal place to use those parts. So have a valid reason to have parts that could be used legally and intent to commit crime is gone.
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Old December 24, 2010, 12:17 PM   #9
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As pointed out... you have it confused. A 4k dollar MG is that high because you can't go make any new, transferrable MGs. The high price is a function of the fact that no NEW MGs can be made and tranferred to individuals.

As far as having full auto parts on hand.... You need to have something that the ATF can get to fire full auto. Take the case of that idiot in Wisconsin who but an A2 burst kit into his junk Oly AR. His downfall was when the ATF was able to gut automatic fire from the weapon.
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Old December 24, 2010, 02:18 PM   #10
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Intent is key...

Quote:
thats kinda stupid . i mean i have gun powder here , i have cannon fuze here , and i have pipe here ,...
True, but the powder, fuze and pipe can all be used for different things than just making a bomb. Full auto parts can only be used for making a full auto fun,.. er gun.

And thats enough to wind you up in court. Short barrel AR uppers are perfectly legal parts, and can even be bought direct mail order. BUT, if you have any AR lower receiver that the SBR upper can fit on, anywhere in your posession, you can count on facing prosecution, if caught. BATF doesn't always win "constructive posession" cases, but they do win a lot, and even if you avoid conviction, you have still lost a lot of time, MONEY, and maybe property.

Not even remotely worth the risk. Silencers are another example. You can have silencer parts, and be completely legal. BUT, if you have all the parts (even in unfinished form) you are at risk. Because the law says the crime is the intent to silence a firearm. You could build a silencer that doesn't work, and still be convicted, and if the jury believes you intended it to work, that conviction will stand. You don't even have to build the thing, if the prosecutor convinces the jury that you intended to build it (and why else would you have the parts, anyway?), you are going to Club Fed for at least a few years, and will never legally own a gun again.

Some full auto parts are, by and of themselves, legally machine guns. The post 1986 AR auto sear is the most famous example. Ownership of just that part, with no other AR parts or AR rifle, at all, can land you in legal trouble the same as having a functioning full auto rifle.

No, its not fair. No, it doesn't make sense. But it is the law. And until we change the law, it is what we have to live with. We are allowed to not like it. But we are not allowed to violate it, without facing the penalties.

Don't do it.
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Old December 24, 2010, 07:27 PM   #11
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I am coming to seriously dislike folks who rant that "the law is stupid, why can't I do ..."

The law may be stupid, or unnecessary, or confusing, or plain silly, BUT IT IS THE LAW. And you don't get to decide what the law should be, you get to obey it or suffer the consequences. You can campaign to have the law changed and you might succeed.

Or, if you really feel a law is bad or will fail a court test, hire a lawyer and set up a test case, like the Civil Rights protesters did. But if you fail, you will be convicted and penalized. Many Civil Rights activists went to jail or suffered social penalties, like being fired from their jobs, before they were vindicated.

So if you don't want to take a chance on testing the law, and you don't want to suffer consequences, shut up and obey the law, and stop raving about how it is stupid or unfair or whatever.

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Old December 25, 2010, 12:45 AM   #12
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well , i noticed the other day while you tubin on sks's that there were a few running full auto , no big deal . but then i read that the sks was never ever offered in full auto . now i have seen auto sears for them very recently for under 100.00 . , so if they were never offered in full auto then how are these bozos getting by with it ? or are they just stupid enough to post the video ? And as much as i like the fact and idea of a f/a my sks scares me enough just racking a round with a free floating firing pin . I live just outside of raleigh nc on 3 ac with a another 1000 ac behind me , we play pretty hard and its gotten out of hand a few times and the cops were called but they never give us a hard time . I dont even know of a local atf branch and i may be wrong but i dount they would waste too much time over some ol pecker woods having fun. When you set off 20lbs of tannerite and your neighbor sheriff who lives 2 houses down could care less , i mean come on ! , imust just live in a cool place , btw if any one knows a local ATF branch here in nc , fill me in ! lol
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Old December 25, 2010, 12:54 AM   #13
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http://www.atf.gov/field/charlotte/f...hcarolina.html
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Old December 25, 2010, 03:17 AM   #14
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Two things about U tube...

First, is that yes, there are stupid people out there, doing illegal things, and posting them on U tube/Facebook, what have you. Some of them even wind up getting caught.

Not too long ago there was a case of a model and some pictures of her with some guns. Turns out she had been busted (the legal kind), about drugs or something, and parole/probation = no guns. Pics on the net of her violating her probation, go back to jail. Do not pass go, do not collect $200.

Second thing, UTube videos can come from anywhere. THere are still many places in the world where you can legally convert any gun you want for a price. So you might see things on U tube that are a crime in the US, but not a big deal where the video was made.

Personally, I think its more likely that its stupid people thinking they can show off and not get caught. But thats just my opinion.
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Old December 25, 2010, 03:39 AM   #15
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i don't know about manufacturing full auto parts, but, as stated above you can own them as long as you don't possess the rest of the parts to make the gun.
you don't even need all the parts. you can own an m16 lower parts set, as long as you don't own a lower receiver (alone or on a production gun) that will accept the parts. so if you want an m16 auto sear, you can have it. just don't have a receiver to put it in.
you CAN put some m16 parts into your AR, like the bolt carrier group. in fact, you can legally buy and own full m16 uppers for your AR.
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Old December 25, 2010, 01:30 PM   #16
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Just because you can't manuf. full auto firearms, does not mean others can't.

The SKS is a military semi auto rifle, people qualified to do so make machineguns out of them. People who do not own SKS rifles make and sell unregulated parts for SKS rifles.

So if you want to make and sell machinegun parts and conversion kits, that is fine, just don't posess the kits and semi auto rifles the kits will convert.

I get this all the time, people think because they can not legally do something, that others are like them.

I ask them if they can goto the hardware store and buy dynamite, well no dynamite is illegal. No dynamite is regulated to those who need to use it.

Thousands of contruction exposions every year beg to differ that it is illegal.
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Old December 25, 2010, 03:36 PM   #17
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well just for instance on the utube the guy was claiming alabama and firing into a mud hole . wish the same was for pot . you can own pot but not a smoking device lol
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Old December 25, 2010, 09:18 PM   #18
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Time for my 2 cents worth. Do you think NO ONE is monitering what you say, either on the internet, or spouting off in your local hardware store? Do you think that because you use an alias that "they" don't know who you are? A person doesn't even have to be at their computer to know you're talking full auto illegalaties. Take some of the advice given here. Do a search, BATFE.GOV {?} and find out what is legal and what isn't.
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Old December 26, 2010, 03:09 PM   #19
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Quote:
Time for my 2 cents worth. Do you think NO ONE is monitering what you say, either on the internet, or spouting off in your local hardware store? Do you think that because you use an alias that "they" don't know who you are? A person doesn't even have to be at their computer to know you're talking full auto illegalaties. Take some of the advice given here. Do a search, BATFE.GOV {?} and find out what is legal and what isn't.
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Heck I wouldn't put it past someone from the "gover-mint" to come and post on gun forums and get people to admit to doing things they shouldn't be doing
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Old December 28, 2010, 04:22 PM   #20
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NOOO our goverment would never do such a thing as intrapment . I almost would brag about having some full auto weapon just so they would waste valuble time searching my place . lol
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Old December 28, 2010, 09:35 PM   #21
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Quote:
Do you think NO ONE is monitering what you say, either on the internet, or spouting off in your local hardware store?
well, i don't know about my local hardware store, but consider this
EVERYTHING posted on twitter is archived. wouldn't be surprised to find out Facebook is too.
i'll bet most gun forums are monitored as well. we all have files with big brother.
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Old December 28, 2010, 10:48 PM   #22
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David, that is interesting but irrelevant. An object that I can't own legally is illegal for me, even though it might not be illegal for those authorized to own it.

As an example, the USAF has (or had) some 700 ICBMs, all perfectly legal. But if I have a nice one in my backyard silo with a few mtons of MIRVs on it, I strongly suspect "da guv" just might consider that I am in violation of some silly law or other, probably the fireworks ban.

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Old December 28, 2010, 11:54 PM   #23
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Jim my comment was to the original poster who wondered how new manuf. machineguns can be openly shown on places like Youtube.

I was trying to get him to understand that just because something was illegal for him, does not mean it is illegal for others posting videos.
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Old December 29, 2010, 03:21 PM   #24
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To get back to the OP, yes it would be legal to manufacture PARTS used in fully automatic weapons. It would NOT be legal to assemble those parts into an operable weapon. You can not assemble and/or register a fully automatic weapon since May of 1986 unless you are licensed as a manufacturer and possess a special tax stamp (SOT) and even then it can be used only as a sales sample and cannot be transferred to anyone except a governmental agency. Short answers.
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Old December 29, 2010, 05:14 PM   #25
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Quote:
To get back to the OP, yes it would be legal to manufacture PARTS used in fully automatic weapons
just playing devils advocate here... you can manufacture it, you cant sell it, you cant use it,.... so why would you? other then intent
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