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Old December 18, 2010, 03:44 PM   #1
Ervin
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30.06 surplus bullets?

http://www.ammogarand.com/30-cal-300...061502500.html

I plan on replicating M2 ball with these 150 grains (give or take a little on the powder depending on my rifle)

what accuracy do you think Id be able to squeeze out of these bullets tough?

For competition purposes I'll buy something more pricey but I want these for 100 yard practice (with scaled down targets)
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Old December 19, 2010, 10:03 AM   #2
Unclenick
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I've pulled down a fair amount of M2 to make pseudo-Mexican match by collecting and re-dispensing the powder more evenly to the average value and substituting Sierra 150 grain MatchKings into the cases. The stock M2 might shoot 2-2.5" at 100 yards from a match accurized Garand. As much as 6" from worn stock Garand barrels.

The main problem is the manufacturing tooling output was all mixed together for those bullets. Even from one can of M2 I might get a half dozen identifiable tooling sets based on the bullet base marks. Not only were the bases distinct, but they often had off-center punch marks, overflow of core lead onto the jacket heel and the cannelures were not evenly impressed. A bullet laid sideways in caliper jaws might show light cracks from the cannelure forward or maybe just below it.

I've also fired a fair amount of M2 at matches that went to 600 yards. The best slow fire prone score I ever had with M2 was 181 (out of 200). The 9 ring is 18" on the 600 yard target, so 18 over 6.3 is 2.9 moa. But some of those would be 10's and X's and some 8's. The 8 ring is 24", which is 3.8 moa. So figure the group opens to a little bigger moa at long range due to atmospheric conditions (irregular air density and wind differences at different portions of the range). So that gun and that ammo lot might have been up to 2.5 moa at 100 yards. Hard to say. The gun was not match accurized, but shot way better than most. That happens randomly that you can get a stock Garand that shoots like a house on fire. The opposite can happen randomly, too.
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Last edited by Unclenick; December 20, 2010 at 01:01 PM.
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Old December 19, 2010, 12:33 PM   #3
Buzzcook
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Just the bullets themselves? You should be able to work up an ~moa load.
Whether a replica of M2 velocity and pressure will be accurate out of your rifle depends on your rifle.
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Old December 20, 2010, 09:13 AM   #4
Ervin
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Thanks for the in-depth reply.

2in @ 100yds is ok with me, it is an open sight M1 Garand after all. The rifle has a TE 2 barrel I believe, so I have some confidence in it.

The 1903 Springfield generation only had this grade bullets to work with, and they did well, but for the most part I wont expect too much out of these bullets.
If all else fails, I'll have really cheap plinking ammo for rapid fires.
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Old December 20, 2010, 01:25 PM   #5
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The National match ammo for the '03 was based on M1 and not M2 ball. M1 used the 173 grain boattail bullet. It was made obsolete in, I think, 1944, as the reserves were gone and the 168 grain bullet in M2 AP (as distinct from M2 Ball) had replaced it in combat. But they still made the bullet for M72 match ammo. Marines and others still using the 1903 would have had that 168 grain M2 AP to shoot in combat.

Don't knock the iron sights. They're really pretty good on the Garand and M14, though you may need to use a rubber band to keep the wobble out. I've shot the 168 grain Sierra MatchKing in my match accurized Garand from prone position into 0.7" CTC at 100 yards (10 shot group) right after I first did the accuracy work on it. Lots of guys who are better shots than I am have shot 1/2 moa or better with iron sights. The old timers used to claim they could shoot as well with iron as with glass. The glass just made the wobble bigger. My experience is that is pretty much true for position shooting, but not for benchrest.

To be clear, I think you can probably count on 3" groups, but you might get 2" groups. If you sort them by weight and by base appearance, you may do better. I've not bothered trying that.

I reached in an old bin and pulled out five of these bullets. Check out the bases and you can guess why they fire differently. As no lesser light that Harry Pope said a century ago, the base steers the bullet. That's because it affects how much pitch and yaw the muzzle blast gives the bullet as it exits. You can deform a nose pretty severely and still hit a target, but shave a little off one side of the base, and the bullet is all over the map. Lack of mass symmetry around the axis will also do you a good bit of wobble.

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Old December 20, 2010, 02:20 PM   #6
Slamfire
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Do not expect much from 150 gr FMJBT bullets. I went out and shot ten shot groups at 100 yards through my Ruger tactical in 308 and military bullets. I would expect groups like I got with 1968 WRA ball. IMI FMJ’s were awful.

I hit a sweet spot with the 150 Hornday’s. These shot exceptionally well in this rifle, but OK in other rifles.

IMI FMJBT Bullets

1968 WRA Ball

Hornday 150 FMJBT
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Old December 23, 2010, 10:51 AM   #7
Ervin
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Good info fellas.

I got a small gas cylinder wobble problem with my Garand currently.
So before I fix this I cant expect my loads to do better.
I got 2in groupings my first day, but because of the 1mm wobble, some of those rds went an inch right.
I was hoping loc tite would be an easier fix, cause I have no clue how to peen the barrel.
But then again, how long can this loc tite stuff last...

Also, is it possible to reduce the trigger pull by cutting down on the hammer spring?
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Old December 23, 2010, 11:24 AM   #8
kraigwy
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Here's my take on the subject:

Use the surplus ammo as is. Practice off hand at 100 yards with it, put your reloading efforts elsewhere.

Garand Matches are won on your feet, not your belly.
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Old December 23, 2010, 03:34 PM   #9
Slamfire
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Quote:
Garand Matches are won on your feet, not your belly
.

Very true.
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Old December 25, 2010, 03:37 AM   #10
T. O'Heir
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"...plan on replicating M2 ball..." Whatever for? M2 ball wasn't match ammo. Work up the load for your rifle.
Practice with the ammo you intend using in any match.
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