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Old December 5, 2010, 01:26 PM   #1
napp
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Doc Hoy, where are the pictures?

Okay Doc, we all know you got a new project from Starbuck. Projects are always deserving of pictures. A good place to start would be some "before" pictures.
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Old December 5, 2010, 03:26 PM   #2
bedbugbilly
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Maybe his better half found out he was a lookin' for a project and she found him one?
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Old December 5, 2010, 03:32 PM   #3
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Bedbug....

Dag nabbit you nailed it.

I just got off of a 22 foot ladder hanging friggin Christmas decorations. I love Christmas and I am really in the spirit this year but hangin decorations instead of fingering a BP revolver project?! Come on now!

I will try to get some shots of this pistol before I start working on it. Actually the first project in line is an 1858 Remington with a cut down barrel. (about four inches)

Photos of that too are in the offing.
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Old December 5, 2010, 05:12 PM   #4
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i was really glad to help doc out with his project. it'll need alot of work , but i got alot of faith in doc to get her in good condition. wish you the best of luck doc!!!
doc, don't feel too bad about your wife finding you other things to do, mine found me a few to do today also...
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Old December 5, 2010, 09:32 PM   #5
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Happiness is associating with a group of like minded individuals.
Through many a dark hour I've pondered the allure of Remington and Colt Cap and Ball revolvers.
I've tried to relate to my Better Half, the beauty of design and functionality of these guns, but to no avail. I know you fellas can relate to what I'm talking about.
I've been facinated by these guns all my life, and can find no better tranquilizer than in using and caring for them. Second best is reading and participating in this fine Forum. Any body addicited to this sport can't be all that bad.
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Old December 5, 2010, 09:42 PM   #6
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Doc - glad to hear you didn't fall off that ladder! I did have a thought though . . . since you were talking about Christmas. Why don't you try haning up a couple of holsters this year instead of your regular stocking? Who knows . . . after all the "honey do" work, maybe your better half will fill them holsters up with something that fits 'em?

Anxious to see some photos - the Remy sounds like a neat project!
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Old December 6, 2010, 05:53 AM   #7
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BBB

Now that creates an interesting image. Instead of stockings, hang holsters on the fireplace. Only problem is....I only own one holster.


To Cameron,

We spend about ten hours in activities associated with shooting for every hour we spend shooting. I enjoy maintaining these pistol as much as I enjoy shooting the pistol. And that does not include the time we spend chatting on the forums.

I don't call these things guns because guns are only armament of one inch and higher caliber and mounted to the decks of ships. . On the serious side you are correct. The pistols have an innate beauty which is difficult to resist. I often say, "You could show me a million photos of an 1860 Colt and when you showed me the million and first, I would still say, Dang....that is a purdy pistol."
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Old December 6, 2010, 06:52 AM   #8
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Okay...Here are some photos

The first is of the left side of the weapon. Doesn't show much detail but I will say that the revolver has a four digit serial number (2393) on the frame but no date code. It appears to have been a kit that was only partially finished but then shot in it's partially finished state.



The next photo shows the left grip. The purchaser (who is not Starbuck125 who simply got the pistol in a box of stuff at a sale) did not finish the grips to much extent. They are somewhat contours to the frame but the final product is anything but smooth. Every screw in the pistol is loose. The nipples were tight but I was able to remove all but one with a nipple wrench and a little fortitude.



The next photo shows the muzzle with the missing latch, site, and spring and toggle in the loading lever. When I received the revolver, the wedge had been installed upside down. The spring leaf was missing. The cylinder is corroded and the barrel was never finished. The bore is troubling but I think it can be cleaned up to a shootable condition. The plunger in the loading lever has been filed fo some reason and will probably need replacing.





The final shot shows the really troubling facets. You can see that the pistol is at half cock and the bolt is retracted. Good, right? Wrong!...The bolt does not move at all. You can also see that the hand is retracted. It also does not move. I found no lubrication on the arbor which is ever so slightly loose. The locating pins are missing. You cansee by the impressions of the cylinder on the recoil shield that the pistol has been fired.

The hammer goes to half cock and full cock at what appear to be the right positions so I think the hammer and trigger are okay.

There is an awful lot wrong with this pistol but I am personally thrilled to get it. I am going to start ordering parts for it today. I am certain that I will encounter significant difficulty in obtaining OEM parts as ASM has been out of business for a long time. I have been through the various stockers of ASM parts at length on another project and very few parts remain. The few that do remain are more or less interchangeable with Pietta.

At this writing I know I need an internals kit, a sight, the latch assembly for the loading lever, the wedge, the locating pins, which I will probably make, and probably a plunger. One good thing is that I already have a perfect specimen of this very pistol to use as a model and possible test bed. I also have many of these parts in either new or very good condition in my parts supply.

I was working on an 1858 Remington as my next project but I think that may move to second place in favor of this pistol.

More later.
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Old December 6, 2010, 07:35 AM   #9
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Doc, from your pics, it seems the original owner made little or no effort to finish the castings nor many other parts. Does it make you wonder, just what are folks expecting when they order a pistol in "kit" form?
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Old December 6, 2010, 07:50 AM   #10
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Zippy

Yes indeed it does.

This pistol was obviously assembled enough to get it shooting and nothing more. Then is appears to have been shot enough times to mark the recoil shield but never cleaned or lubricated. I think that qualifies as "abuse".

I want to emphasize that I got this pistol from Starbuck who IS NOT the guy who abused the pistol. Starbuck got it in a box of hunting stuff at a sale. He is not responsible for any of the shortcomings of this revolver.

I also wish to post two updates to the photos post.

I originally said the hammer and trigger seem to be okay....Scratch that. At full cock, all you have to do is shake the pistol a little bit to get the hammer to fall.

As well, I got the last nipple out of the pistol using the vice contraption I came up with a while back.

I reviewed my supply of parts and have most of what I need. Although, I am afraid I will be making a sight. I don't have it and the three places I checked don't seem to stock it.
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Old December 6, 2010, 08:20 AM   #11
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Good luck Doc, I know you can do it.
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Old December 6, 2010, 09:32 AM   #12
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Doc,
The only thing that would have made me sadder would have been for you to post pics of little abused puppies.

Keep us updated on the refurb...restore my faith in human nature.
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Old December 6, 2010, 05:22 PM   #13
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I had an ASM Navy 51. The mainspring broke and nothing would replace it. I tried several, but they were all too short. I finally had to resort to having a gunsmith make me another, but there were so many other issues with the ASM that I just let him keep the gun rather than pay for the work on it.

The Doc is out now.
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Old December 6, 2010, 05:35 PM   #14
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Main Spring Broke

DrLaw,

You bring up an interesting point. In all my years of shooting and exposure to numerous Colt and Remington clones of various descriptions I have never had a failure of a main spring.

Now in point of fact I don't shoot all that much. Maybe as often as every other week end during the warm season. Yet I read often on this and other forums about the requirement to replace mainsprings.

Maybe it is the way I hold my tongue.

Seriously, Can someone share with me the conditions under which the main spring let go?

How about the location of the break. (tip? middle?)

Did you get any warning such as a weak hammer pull or a misfire before the failure?
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Old December 6, 2010, 07:50 PM   #15
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Doc,

I've never broken a mainspring either. Now, a trigger/bolt spring or hand spring is a horse of a different color.
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Old December 6, 2010, 07:57 PM   #16
bedbugbilly
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What a neat project! I'd leave the rough cast triggerguard alone - it really adds "character" to the piece! The missing latch piece for the loading lever . . . well heck . . . nothing a rubber band wouldn't fix in short order! And those grips . . . "just more to hold on to!"

On the serious side . . . (If there is such a thing!?) . . . I have a feeling that by the time Doc gets finished with this little gem it will shine like a diamond ring from the Sears Roebuck catalog!

NoW Doc . . about only having one holster . . .
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Old December 7, 2010, 03:18 AM   #17
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Bedbug....

.....I only have one holster because I only have one right hip.

No...there is no serious side, BBB. But if there were one I would be responding that you guys should be looking closer at the finished project photos I am posting. You are far more confident than I am.
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Old December 7, 2010, 05:43 PM   #18
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I found a sight.

Dixie Gun Works of all places. Hope it fits.
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Old December 9, 2010, 09:49 PM   #19
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Sorry for the delay in getting back here. The mainspring just plain cracked in two. I was thumbing back the hammer and heard a crack, and then the hammer went back with no pressure whatsoever. I gingerly pulled on the trigger while holding the hammer and there was no movement.

It just plain cracked, and I had done absolutely nothing to the spring, nothing!

Oh well, I figure, stuff happens. So I ordered from Dixie. Wrong length. Okay, Order from VTI, wrong length. Hey, what gives? How hard is it to get a '51 replica spring I was wondering? Apparently, for an ASM, pretty dang hard!

Also, while the smithy was working on it, we bent back the grip frame, which came to me bent. And then there was a frozen nipple.

I had bought it from EMF many years ago (1970's).

The Doc is out now.
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Old December 9, 2010, 10:10 PM   #20
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Great Pictures

Doc Hoy

Great pictures. Especially the one of the arbor. Almost unbelievable that anyone would let a weapon get into that shape. Even a replica.

But then we don't know what happed. Some poor fellow could have taken it to the range got home... had the big one, a family member tossed the thing in a box and viola there it sat. Who knows?? There numerous scenarios where stuff just seems to happen and it's one of those you would have had to been there things.

Anyway the good stuff is that it is in good hands now and like most of the other responders I'm just waiting to see the end product.

Thanks for the pictures.

Last edited by Slowhand; December 10, 2010 at 09:12 AM.
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Old December 10, 2010, 06:16 AM   #21
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Thanks for the responses..

Dr.Law....interesting to know how the spring broke and also a valid point on letting the revolver go without spending all of the money for repairs.

I absolutely can not remember what manufacturer was responsible for the pistols I had when I first started out but they were all kits purchased through Shotgun News. EMF's advertisement was their in SN and it they were the lowest cost kits, then EMF kits is what I bought. I don't remember ever having trouble with any kit I bought. This was early seventies.

For Slowhand,

You have also presented a worthwhile position. Kindness alone compels one to allow that there was a valid reason for the treatment this pistol underwent. In point of fact I just picked up a G&G clone which has some obvious internal problems and very little lubrication appears to have been applied to this pistol too. More on that one in another thread.
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Old December 11, 2010, 06:05 PM   #22
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Some photos of the internals

Today I had a chance to get insode of this ASM Colt.



You can see from the photo that the bolt leaf is broken. I have a spare but it will take some filing. (Not uncommon.) Notice the corrosion on all the internals. I think this pistol was never lubricated. In the previous photos you can tell that the pistol has been fired. When I pulled the spring out, I noticed that the spring screw is damaged. It appears to have been broken off and the remaining piece used.



The second photo shows the hand with broken spring. You can see that the hand itself is it pretty good condition. A little corroded but plent of metal left to do the filing and shaping to get the action right.



The third photo was initially intended just to show the terrible mess inside of the frame. But if you take acloser look you can see that the pin that tightens up the arbor appears to bave been pushed way inside the frame. The head of the pin is barely visible. The arbor is slightly loose.

I tries soap and water and a stiff bristle brush but the black crud is really caked on. I have the frame and triggerguad soaking in gasoline to see if I can break it up a little.

This pistol has a long way to go.
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Old December 11, 2010, 06:07 PM   #23
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Forgot to mention

I cleaned up the barrel and miraculously the bore is in pretty good shape. It will take a little steel wool or scotch brite pad but I think it will clean up to shootable condition.
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Old December 11, 2010, 07:23 PM   #24
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Doc,
You seem to like brassers, so do I. But in our store we are trying now to sell steel frames that fit conversions. I have 4 pietta 44c brassers 1 reb Confederate, One Tex 1858, 2 sherriffs (1 octaganol and 1 round) All new in box and probably only been cocked a few times from curious customers. I want to sell them all at good price to make more room in display $585 for all 4
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Old December 12, 2010, 02:31 AM   #25
Doc Hoy
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Hardy

I can't say I am partial to brass frame revolvers. I got this pistol and a couple others by putting out feelers for some clunkers to work on as projects. In cases like that, you takes what you gets.

This one was given to me by a poster who got it in a box of junk. I sent him the cost of shipping and he sent me the pistol.

I am going to try very hard to restore the pistol and not just part it out. I did get hold of a G&G in poor condition that I will likely just take apart and sell. I have three others of the G&G model and certainly don't need a fourth.

I also have one other ASM 1860 (Brass .44) but I am challenged to get this pistol shooting again. I am fairly certain that I will put more into it than it will ever be worth.
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