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Old November 30, 2010, 10:43 PM   #1
Gbro
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Hunter dies after his stand is pulled down...

This is a news story about a dispute over property and a hunter is charged with first-degree assault and hunter harassment after a deer stand (Ladder style it appears) fell to the ground with person still in it.

This is an example of why one should not get into a dispute with another hunter and should call law enforcement.

http://www.brainerddispatch.com/stor...01130029.shtml

http://www.startribune.com/local/111012899.html?elr=KArksLckD8EQDUoaEyqyP4OW3ckUiD3aPc:_Yyc:aUvDEhiaE3miUsZ

I do not know why the smiley face is in the link??
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Old November 30, 2010, 10:54 PM   #2
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I will admit that I have been wrong in confronting another in a deer stand that our hunting party built & maintained for years that was on public property. Back in that time there was no wording in the rule book about who has right to a stand on public property like we see today. The Minnesota statutes probably covered this but who had access to statutes back in the early '70's.
But on that opening morning My FIL and I when into the woods to our stands and we come across hunters already in our stands. They said we couldn't prove who built the stands and we had never ran across anything like this before. So my FIL climbs into the stand with the other guy and I go down the trail and find the mans son in my stand.
I ask him to get out, and I know I didn't ask nice and he too said we couldn't prove we built the stand (even though that really didn't matter according to the law) So I tell him he is coming down one way or the other and start to kick the cross braces off intending to tear the stand down. Well he tells me I am crazy and I agree so he bails.
Of course i was so wound up i couldn't sit and enjoy anything so we went home. Day ruined for all of us.
AND I was the one that was wrong!
And would never do what those two did ever even though the stand belongs to the 1st one because it is public.
And would never get into a confrontation with another hunter for any reason.
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Old November 30, 2010, 11:56 PM   #3
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I guess that disproves the "Armed society is a polite society" theory.
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Old December 1, 2010, 12:11 AM   #4
deathrider
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well I once had a problem with "hunters" building stands on my land that was well over 1 mile into woods, no amount of signs worked, they build elaborate stands 8 to 12 feet in size across quite a few trees like a large tree house, & some were just small platforms, & if I placed a sign on their stand it would be ripped down, & if I pulled their stand down they just rebuilt it, so I used a chainsaw, & took a ladder with me into woods, & cut braces on steps, as well as platform itself so that with weight it would colapse, and they would fall, & within 2 years they got my message loud & clear, all lumber was removed by them, & there has not been any stands in at least 10 years.

Randy
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Old December 1, 2010, 12:23 AM   #5
Zooky the Bear
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Killing someone over a stand or an animal is just crazy.

Here in PA, a deer hunter was shot in the chest with a shotgun and killed on opening day of the season (2 days ago) while he was going to field dress the deer he killed. The death was deemed suspicious by police.
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Old December 1, 2010, 12:53 AM   #6
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Quote:
This is an example of why one should not get into a dispute with another hunter and should call law enforcement.
Sounds like the law was called because there was a dispute. There is nothing wrong with confronting another hunter who has trespassed. He very well may not know it. He may even be lost.

It is interesting to note that the hunter charged in the death was apparently the hunter that called law enforcement about there being a trespasser. The police never showed. So calling law enforcement turned out to be useless. Chances are that they didn't show because the directions they had to the location were probably less than adequate, hence they never found the two men.

Quote:
Killing someone over a stand or an animal is just crazy.
Yes, but chances are, the landowner hunting wasn't trying to kill the other hunter. He was probably shaking the stand to get the other hunter out of it. He may have been trying to pull the stand down, and figured with that the other hunter would not be harmed or would come down on his own power before the stand fell.

Of course that doesn't make it right.
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Old December 1, 2010, 01:24 AM   #7
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Some years ago in an incident over a deer stand a fellow who was apparently 'squatting' in another person's stand shot the rightful owner and killed him. Family members who were hunting with him got into a firefight with the trespasser and a number of them were killed as well. The murderer was caught and prosecuted but that didn't do the family much good.
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Old December 1, 2010, 01:53 AM   #8
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I hate it when some third party tries to tell you your land isn't your land according to some absent (or mythical) second party. Land owners know where their land is better than anyone else.

I know it's wrong to feel this way, but a tiny part of me feels like that guy needed killing.
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Old December 1, 2010, 05:47 AM   #9
James H
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deathrider...(what a handle)

Sounds like you're setting booby traps. Granted, it's your land, but what the hell? You didn't care if someone fell and broke their neck or back? I wouldn't want that on my conscience even if someone were trespassing. Makes me question your ethics regarding other hunting procedures. Do you care if you gut shoot something? Or spine shoot something midway down the back and it crawls off with its two front legs without being put down?

Why do people get so cruel and territorial? Jesus...killing someone over trespassing just blows my mind.
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Old December 1, 2010, 07:04 AM   #10
abelacres
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Quote:
McCormick told Benedict he was trespassing on his property, but Benedict said he was on White Earth tribal land and had permission to hunt there. McCormick says when he tried to extend his business card to Benedict, the tree stand tipped and fell to the ground.
How is this hunter harrassment?
This man was committing ARMED TRESSPASSING, a felony in many states.
I know D.A's like to stack charges, but really? If you tell a tresspasser to get off your land you can be charged with harrassment? It matters that he was hunting?

Another thing to consider-
IF he accidentally fell, (through no fault of the land owner) would his family be able to sue the land owner?
Stranger things have happened in today's sue happy enviroment.
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Old December 1, 2010, 07:09 AM   #11
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Another approach

As a land owner in IN I have had a problem with hunters building elaborate tree stands. I mean ATVs with trailers bring in enough material for a yard barn.
Understand I hunt this property as well (500+ acres), in very small areas, in very specific directions. I raise Organic Angus, Quarter Horses and Exotic Animals (Giraffes, Elan, Springbok). I have 155 "No Hunting, No Trespassing signs. Even with that I have had (3) Angus shot by hunters, and (1) Elan. In the last 20yrs. I have torn down over 30 of these stands. In my early years of doing this I would sweat my jewels off tearing them down. Then I resorted to dynamite ( a lot more fun). In the last several years I call the Sheriffs Dept. I'm retired and during hunting season, I hunt hunters, not to shoot, just to make sure that the LEOs don't make a dry run. They get arrested, if a deer is shot the LEO calls a Conservation Officer. In IN COs have full arrest powers. I prosecute to the maximum. In the last 3 yrs. I have started suing the violators for rent in Civil Court. This year I had (4) of these structures built on my property. The earliest was built in MAY!!! The latest in August. I sue for rent. I get $700.00/month. I have prevailed every single case!! Of all the suits only (2) didn't pay, so I imposed liens on their homes/property.
Have I ever been tempted to shoot a violator? Oh, yeah in my early years. Now, I have a process that works.
Someone may ask, "why don't I just let hunters lease the land?" I would if they would post a bond to cover the damage. Because I choose not to have hunters on MY land. I worked hard to accumulate what I have. They can do the same. If they choose not to I am not the Fairy God Father. Unlike the Commander in Chief I don't believe in spreading the wealth!! My rant is complete.
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Old December 1, 2010, 07:39 AM   #12
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That's awesome 1911rocks!
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Old December 1, 2010, 07:44 AM   #13
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Had a heck of a time with trespassers on one piece of property that we own. All the neighbors had trouble too. The violators were guys who leased the property across the road. Among the dozen or so folks that i ran off that place were an OK City lawyer and his son, an OK City cop, a county commissioner and a real estate magnate.

It all ended the day a bunch of trespassers parked their brand new four door Dodge diesel pickup on property adjacent to mine. The truck burned up; probably due to the cat converter catching the high grass on fire. Voila', no more trespassers.
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Old December 1, 2010, 07:46 AM   #14
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Haha...I don't know what we'd all do without folks sneaking in their political opinions with otherwise relevant posts. Yeah...Thanks 1911rocks...awesome.

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Old December 1, 2010, 08:03 AM   #15
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1911, you remind me of what Matt Damon and Brad Pitt said about what Andy Garcias' character did to the cheaters family in Ocean's Eleven!!

Go for the juggler right!!
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Old December 1, 2010, 08:37 AM   #16
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deathrider...(what a handle)

Sounds like you're setting booby traps. Granted, it's your land, but what the hell? You didn't care if someone fell and broke their neck or back? I wouldn't want that on my conscience even if someone were trespassing. Makes me question your ethics regarding other hunting procedures. Do you care if you gut shoot something? Or spine shoot something midway down the back and it crawls off with its two front legs without being put down?

Why do people get so cruel and territorial? Jesus...killing someone over trespassing just blows my mind.





ok for your information, deathrider is.

my handle on the CB, it is for when I was young & growing up street racing motorcycles & cars, people knicknamed me that & it stuck, this forum wouldnt let me use my normal handle I use in all other forums, so this name popped into my head. but bad taste maybe, but what the heck & if you took time to read my introduction, it told that in it.

I am also 43 years old, but that was done in my 20's, I didnt technically own the land, but my parents did & they wanted me to get rid of all & any trespassers, if it had just been a hunter bringing a portable stand & removing & leaving nothing but a couple of empty shells, then nothing would have been said. I am sure people still trespass & hunt, I am not going to stop them, but let them litter, & destroy my land & THEY WILL BE REMOVED! in several of the earlier cases, someone cut down alot of small trees, then brought hammer & nails to join 4 or more trees together, & made a quite large stand all out of my parents trees.

the big incident it was a plywood floor, plywood sides, clear plastic tarp for windows. it had slits to stick a rifle through, & they even aparantly were using a kerosene heater, one building I tore down had a homemade wood heater inside, & in every case they were dumping trash, not just a couple of beer cans, but lots of junk, books, magazines, buckets, food containers, just littered about on my land. I used to try to make 4 hikes a winter season to look for anything, & criss crossed land looking for any problems.

as for me sitting booby traps, nope, just sick of one or one group of hunters trespassing & when a sign was hung on their stand on this property they ripped sign down, I saw it laying in trash area ripped, & like I said if I tore it down they would rebuild, so it was "sliced in many locations" which they got the hint, & removed them selves along with all the wood, & cleaned up alot of their trash.

I had talked to other land owners around that owned adjoining land, it wasnt them, & they wanted to know of any locations I found anything on their property as well, & we did a couple hikes & I helped one tear one down himself. they even alerted me when ever they found one on my property.

and do I care if someone got hurt? in this situation the answer is NO!, I cant feel sorry for people that take advantage of others & destroy property & refuse to get off, because of repeated signs & them refusing to leave. I tried to be nice, just hang a sign at their stand first, then tear stand down a couple times including destroying one stand, but they blatently refused to heed my signs, & ripped my posted signs down, so I did what was necessary. I guess it is good I never met in person, that could have gotten pretty heated!

today if I saw a hunter I wouldnt say anything except to police himself, but let me see trash, & large 150 or so square foot tree stands with my trees cut down & things wil get heated fast.

most hunters get the message if you take their stand down & secure a no trespassing sign to their stand. those people wouldnt. how would you like someone coming to your land & building a house? well 12+ feet length & width to me is like a small house, then to defy your warnings, if you did any damage they just repair. & to rip down your signs, & they would rip down every sign they saw anywhere on my land, I put signs on good, come back a couple weeks, & signs has been ripped off. now tell me what would you do? 20 yeasrs ago?

Randy

Last edited by deathrider; December 1, 2010 at 08:47 AM.
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Old December 1, 2010, 10:01 AM   #17
Art Eatman
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"Would you set up camp and hunt in my front yard?"

"Why, no!"

"That pasture and woods out there just means I have a big front yard."

Somebody drifting through my land, hunting, doesn't particularly upset me. He's not hurting anything, 99% odds. But setting up for a stay is a statement that my life is meaningless to him. That tends to make my old red neck light up and glow--and reach for the phone to call the sheriff. And my next-door shootin' buddy, the JP.
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Old December 1, 2010, 10:06 AM   #18
srkavanagh6621
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Gbro actually in Minnesota its illegal to build a permanent stand at all on public property! Im pretty sure they must all be either seasonal or portable stands! Im pretty sure if you get caught building a permanent stand on public ground its a pretty hefty fine and the loss of your license for a while. So just a heads up for anybody in Minnesota, and im pretty sure Minnesota inst the only state with these laws!
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Old December 1, 2010, 10:16 AM   #19
Gbro
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There is something about hunting that brings out old deep rooted territorial fighting instincts even when on public land.
Our forefathers staked out claims on public lands and then fought with loss of life to defend their claims.
When we hunt it is in many to continue an old heritage. Some deep down drive to feed our families causes some of us to behave in a way inconsistent with how we live our lives, then there are those that use it as an excuse to act out in a way they enjoy, like showing their real colors.

I will do my best to keep this thread updated.
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Old December 1, 2010, 10:46 AM   #20
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Quote:
Gbro actually in Minnesota its illegal to build a permanent stand at all on public property!
The way it sounds it was a portable stand.But the reservation has different regualtions than regular places, I dont know what they are because I follow the regualar regulations. I grew up a few miles away from White Earth lake, people do what they want on the res. My dad has his land they have theirs, they usually stay off our land so we dont care what they do on theirs. Dad always said its like the army "dont ask dont tell". I have been shot at while hunting before (yes I had orange on), I called the police and they say they cant do anything about it, even if I had the license plate number and car description (on a couple occasions I even knew who it was). That being said I loved life on the res. dad had his own private lake to fish, a ton of land to hunt, and all of our neighbors were really nice. Unfortunatley I havent had the time to go up there very often anymore.
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Old December 1, 2010, 10:57 AM   #21
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I am opposed to private stands being allowed to stay on public land when the hunter departs.

Stands are often in the best spots. Why should any hunter expect to camp out the top spot all season on public land?

Yet another reason why I prefer leases...
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Old December 1, 2010, 11:20 AM   #22
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I have made tree stands for years. Constructed from 1" steel tubing with expanded metal fold up floors. These are chained with 5/16" log chains and locked to the tree.

They have a seat that pivots up when not in use and also gets chained to the tree and locked in the non use position.

Confronting someone in a tree is easily resolved. I have "haul" ropes for my gear, I prove the keys unlock the tree stand chains and they always move on.

I could also weld my name on the bottom of the steel seat.

Has worked for years.
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Old December 1, 2010, 12:26 PM   #23
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I also know the frustration of tresspassers. We have 4 ponds and one lake on our leased land. Land had been neglected for over 20 years with hunters, ATVs, fishermen, boaters and dog walkers. When my club contacted the landowner and leased it, the locals put up a rather strong opposition to us 'rich city lawyers that always come here to take our land'. We are none of that, we are just regular guys.
Landowner agreed on condition that we put up steel gates on all the trails, clean up the tresspasser's garbage, and not cut any trees. AND, keep liability insurance on the property.
We started catching tresspassers immediately, but there were also the confrontational die-hards that argued with us. Five years later, we are still catching people, tho not nearly the same quantity. They tear our signs down, they pattern us so that they can come whenever we aren't there. They launch boats and have stolen a johnboat from us. They have torn down our game cameras and busted them--we caught them and made them pay for that. They build campfires for camping and the list just keeps going. We do confront them, and give them the option of walking out or being hauled out by the sheriff.

In our case, the land is bordered by one guy who kinda serves as a lookout for the tresspassers. When they get vehicles stuck, he takes his tractor and pulls them out, and otherwise helps them, not us.

Sixgun

It is a very tough thing to do. All we want is the land we pay for, to ourselves.

Last edited by sixgun67; December 1, 2010 at 12:53 PM.
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Old December 1, 2010, 12:34 PM   #24
srkavanagh6621
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I would just get them for trespassing! A large fine and and the loss of their hunting license for a year should make them learn quick! I think recently trespassing has been a much bigger deal with more and more people going on others land! i know around here recently we have caught a few people trying to walk our private land becuase they saw a big deer in there! Ya right its private for a reason! some people these days dont have any respect for anything or people and give good respectable hunters a bad name and ruin the privilege to hunt some private land for everybody!
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Old December 1, 2010, 12:40 PM   #25
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And to think this happened in a place called Brainerd!!!

"Oh, Judge! I was just handing him my business card!"

Ohhhhh boy!
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