The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > The Skunkworks > Gear and Accessories

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old November 29, 2010, 05:13 PM   #1
HighValleyRanch
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 15, 2005
Posts: 1,884
New pancake hot off the stove for my Colt SA

Been thinking about this new design for a while. I like the strong side reverse carry, because the butt doesn't stick out the back, and I wanted something that would hug tight. I wanted the bottom to be narrow and enclosed so that if it sticks out bottom of the over shirt, it might look like a knife sheath. Vertical drop with no cant.

This rig rides nice! Draws smooth, hugs tight, is comfortable and solid.
If it hasn't been take, I am naming it the "pancake slim" model.

Just got done with the lacquer top coat and will polish it out some.
Tooled floral pattern with "silver" studs along the edges, and tight enough to hold the Colt New frontier .22 with friction.
Dyed with coffee antique highlighting, oak antique and lacquer topcoat.
Stitched with white thread for contrast.
Oh, and found a belt that happened to match color and motif perfectly!
No, I didn't tool this belt!LOL

Finally bought a belt loop cutter so it makes better holes!
__________________
From the sweet grass to the slaughter house; From birth until death; We travel between these two eternities........from 'Broken Trail"
HighValleyRanch is offline  
Old November 29, 2010, 05:46 PM   #2
Doodlebugger45
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 15, 2009
Location: Wyoming
Posts: 1,717
That looks absolutely great! I like the way it fits close to your waist. Not all of us fancy ourselves as fast draw wannabes.
Doodlebugger45 is offline  
Old November 29, 2010, 11:19 PM   #3
Model-P
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 24, 2009
Posts: 727
Looks good! I was wondering what you were going to do for leather

When I started carrying, like you I found the reverse, or twist, draw to be best for concealment, and when I mentioned it to a CCW forum they lambasted me with how unsafe it would be during the draw. These were the same guys that sometimes advocated small-of-the-back carry. Go figure They were also mostly guys that carry semiautomatics (mine was a DA snubbie), so maybe they think a gun is a gun is a gun (duh). They didn't want to hear that the United States military used the twist draw for several decades.
Model-P is offline  
Old November 29, 2010, 11:50 PM   #4
HighValleyRanch
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 15, 2005
Posts: 1,884
Ah, the dreaded reverse draw!

I agree. I've been lambasted right here for suggesting the unthinkable.

But as long as the gun is drawn straight up, and twisted while barrel is pointing down, it ends up being exactly in the same position as the standard strong side presentation. Takes a little more limberness in the arms!

But the gun sure rides comfortable this way.

By the way, I really like the thinness of this small colt.
Are the ruger single sixes this thin?
thinking of getting a ruger in .32 H&mag to match.
__________________
From the sweet grass to the slaughter house; From birth until death; We travel between these two eternities........from 'Broken Trail"
HighValleyRanch is offline  
Old November 30, 2010, 07:40 AM   #5
Magnum Wheel Man
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 26, 2006
Location: Southern Minnesota
Posts: 8,015
holster looks awesome... personally I prefer a traditional, but canted fit... but certainly not going to blast anyone for any other way...

my Single Six ( 32 mag ) has the traditional grip frame, & while the gun is pretty small, the grip frame is pretty wide at the top, where it connects to the frame ( I just put a new 32 mag Single Six birdshead grip frame on one of my 45 colt New Vaqueros ( a Montado ) so that should give you an eye deer on the size... added to that, the grip panels seem pretty thick, so the lil 32 is a handfull in the grip area... I would think some thinner panels could be found that would cut down on the thickness some...

aside from that... my Single Six is an older one, bought used, it's polished stainless with white grip panels, & I love the gun... I did have to ream the chamber throats, they were tighter than the bore, making accuracy only marginal & leading pretty heavy... but, after doing the throat job, the thing is a tack driver... might have to get one in 22, just because I like the 32 so much...
__________________
In life you either make dust or eat dust...
Magnum Wheel Man is online now  
Old November 30, 2010, 07:47 AM   #6
MLeake
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 15, 2007
Location: Outside KC, MO
Posts: 10,128
The US military used the twist draw? Never heard that before. When?

They did use a crossdraw, but that was primarily due to the cavalry. It is a lot easier to maintain proper riding form and balance by keeping the arms closer to center; cocking the elbow back for a strongside draw is more unbalancing than reaching across.

Edit: forgot to say, very nice holster, HVR.
MLeake is offline  
Old November 30, 2010, 08:55 AM   #7
twhidd
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 21, 2005
Location: Athens, Georgia
Posts: 790
I heard this type of carry called "cavalry style". Cavalry soldiers would carry this way in order to be able to draw with either hand. Their saber would be carried on the weak side so it can be drawn with their strong hand.

And yes, that is a beautiful holster.
__________________
Todd
NRA Life Member
twhidd is offline  
Old November 30, 2010, 11:40 AM   #8
HighValleyRanch
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 15, 2005
Posts: 1,884
Thanks guys!
I guess this holster style would have to be called a hybrid, because it takes the flavor of the old west, and combines it with the advantage of the hugging pancake.

My colt measures 1 3/8" at the cylinder.
Can you measure your .32 Magnum Wheel Man?
That is the only portion that makes the difference to me as being slimmer.
The grips could always be altered to be thinner.

Good point on the cross draw, because i just tried it, and the gun is accessible with either my weak cross draw ( a stretch but can be done) or the strong reverse. With the normal strong side cant, it is harder for me to draw with the weak hand, and if I do, I still have to manipulate the gun to get the grip.


While the movies portray the usual cowboy as wearing his guns low slung for fast draw, that was not historically the case.
__________________
From the sweet grass to the slaughter house; From birth until death; We travel between these two eternities........from 'Broken Trail"
HighValleyRanch is offline  
Old November 30, 2010, 11:44 AM   #9
Magnum Wheel Man
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 26, 2006
Location: Southern Minnesota
Posts: 8,015
If I can remember ( old guy short term memory loss ) I'll measure the cylinder, & grip frame width tonight ( I should be working in the "man cave" this evening...

BTW... I'm kinda doing similar "cross breeding" with a higher ride & canted "western style" my thoughts are "modern BBQ style" something that functions as a concieled carry holster, but could be worn as a fancy open carry
__________________
In life you either make dust or eat dust...

Last edited by Magnum Wheel Man; November 30, 2010 at 11:54 AM.
Magnum Wheel Man is online now  
Old November 30, 2010, 11:48 AM   #10
MLeake
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 15, 2007
Location: Outside KC, MO
Posts: 10,128
twhidd... if you watch modern competition shooters...

.... in riding events, you will see that crossdraw is a highly preferred mode; for those using two guns, double crossdraw rigs are pretty normal.

You could potentially do a same side, reverse draw while riding, but it's really not optimal for anything faster than a walk.
MLeake is offline  
Old November 30, 2010, 11:57 AM   #11
twhidd
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 21, 2005
Location: Athens, Georgia
Posts: 790
@MLeake... That may be the case for modern competition shooters, and I believe Wild Bill Hickok carried his guns that way, but in the days of cavalry soldiers the saber would be carried on the weak side. It would not be practical to carry the revolver on that side as well. Thus is the reason for the butt forward strong side carry.
__________________
Todd
NRA Life Member
twhidd is offline  
Old November 30, 2010, 12:02 PM   #12
Magnum Wheel Man
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 26, 2006
Location: Southern Minnesota
Posts: 8,015
Hey BTW... VALLEY... got a pic of that rig from the back side
__________________
In life you either make dust or eat dust...
Magnum Wheel Man is online now  
Old November 30, 2010, 12:43 PM   #13
MLeake
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 15, 2007
Location: Outside KC, MO
Posts: 10,128
Wild Bill...

... I thought he used a border rig. Strongside on primary, cross draw opposite. The weak side gun could be drawn either way; kept the other guy guessing, too.
MLeake is offline  
Old November 30, 2010, 12:46 PM   #14
MLeake
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 15, 2007
Location: Outside KC, MO
Posts: 10,128
twhidd...

... I had the impression that the saber was considered the cavalryman's primary close quarters weapon until WWI, based more on tradition than sense.

So I had also assumed they'd train to use the pistol in the weak hand, so they could use both weapons.

(I'm not much of a rider, but my significant other has been in the saddle since she was two; she doesn't really need either hand on the rains. I'd assume a professional cavalryman wouldn't, either.)

Not sure. Now I'm curious.
MLeake is offline  
Old November 30, 2010, 12:59 PM   #15
twhidd
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 21, 2005
Location: Athens, Georgia
Posts: 790
Quote:
... I had the impression that the saber was considered the cavalryman's primary close quarters weapon until WWI, based more on tradition than sense.

So I had also assumed they'd train to use the pistol in the weak hand, so they could use both weapons.
I believe that all to be correct, which goes with my original point. You may be right about Wild Bill's rig. I just thought I had read somewhere once that he carried his Navy Colts that way.
__________________
Todd
NRA Life Member
twhidd is offline  
Old November 30, 2010, 02:13 PM   #16
lashlaroe
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 20, 2010
Location: Central Florida
Posts: 180
HighValley, Nice work! I used that same pattern on my first gun belt I tooled myself as a teenager. It may be the most commonly used leather ttoling pattern I've seen. Or maybe it's just that I like it and notice it more...hmmm.

Anyway, I do like the holster design and will keep it in mind, as my father prefers a Ruger Bearcat and that holster style would work for that as well.

Good work!
__________________
Mike

As much as I believe that there is good in every person, I'm not so naive as to think that all people are essentially good. Evil and evil people exist. Deny that fact at your own risk.
lashlaroe is offline  
Old November 30, 2010, 02:35 PM   #17
Anaconda
Member
 
Join Date: November 24, 2010
Location: Phoenix, Az
Posts: 18
What a great looking holster. In fact I haven't seen one look so good in a long time. Sharp!

Question: Will those sharp edges on the square corners on the belt loop ends, dig into my belly fat when you make my holster? Could you round those off?
Anaconda is offline  
Old November 30, 2010, 03:31 PM   #18
HighValleyRanch
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 15, 2005
Posts: 1,884
Magnum Wheel Man,
here's a photo of the backside. Nothing much to write home about, sorta crude compared to the front. The only noticeable is that the "silver" studs were attached before the two sides to hide the fold over tabs in between the two pieces. Another tip I found that works great is to leave the two pices "rough cut" until stitched together, and then do the final contour cut on a thin bladed band saw, and burnish the edges. That way I get the two sides matched perfectly.


You BBQ idea was pretty close to what I thought. A general around the ranch CCW holster that was comfortable for all day wear, but looked like a B-grade western when the outer shirt came off!

Lashlaroe,
that pattern probably looks familiar because it was right off the tandy Al Stolham pattern book from the early days! But the motif is fairly common with differences in the way the leaves and flower are tooled.
And while I am borrowing my friends Bearcat, I might punch out a holster for that later this week. But I was thinking more cross draw or standard butt back for that small a gun. A reverse draw would be hard because the grip is so small. It would be perfect for a pancake type, though.

Anaconda,
the square edges can be rounded off, I just decided to make them square for contrast as I am pretty lean. Not taking any orders yet, still trying to perfect the craft. Lots of little mistakes that you can't see, but more like a ten foot paint job!
__________________
From the sweet grass to the slaughter house; From birth until death; We travel between these two eternities........from 'Broken Trail"
HighValleyRanch is offline  
Old November 30, 2010, 03:47 PM   #19
Anaconda
Member
 
Join Date: November 24, 2010
Location: Phoenix, Az
Posts: 18
HVR,

When the women do that to us, we have a special name we call them. Do I need to get into name calling or is there some other form of blackmail that I can use LMAO
Anaconda is offline  
Old December 1, 2010, 07:41 AM   #20
Magnum Wheel Man
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 26, 2006
Location: Southern Minnesota
Posts: 8,015
measurements from that single six 32 mag ( I'm neither an engineer or machinist, but used a caliper, so use "my" measurement with caution )

Cylinder width...1.44"
Barrel / Extractor width...0.95"
Frame width...0.925"

BTW... I don't have a thin blade band saw, so I normally use a Dremel tool with a Rotozip insert ( made for side cutting ) it works great, but covers me pretty good with flying leather shred...
__________________
In life you either make dust or eat dust...
Magnum Wheel Man is online now  
Old December 1, 2010, 11:46 AM   #21
rodfac
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 22, 2005
Location: Kentucky
Posts: 1,512
Very nice, High Valley...interesting design.

Just a cpl of thoughts on butt forward, cavalry style holsters....US Cavalry used them up to the Spanish American War period but went to the 'butt to the rear' carry with the advent of the .38 Colt and .45 Automatic.

US Cavalry was trained to fight off horseback, but seldom did during the Civil War and Indian Wars, with some notable exceptions, Bedford Forest of CSA fame used cavalry more as mounted infantry in fact...

The three cavalry arms: carbine, pistol, and saber were, for most of its existence, attached to trooper to enable him to fight mounted or on foot. Mounted, all positioning of his weapons was predicated on the left hand controlling his mount through the reins.

The carbine was slung from a cross shoulder strap and hung on the right side, the muzzle being slipped into a loop attached to the saddle's off side cinch strapping. When dismounting, the trooper had to remember to slip the muzzle free of the loop or faced an embarrassing hang up.

The revolver, all 7-1/2" of it was hung from the saber belt on the right side, butt forward. This position allowed him to draw with either hand, but more importantly, didn't interfere with his saber which hung from the near side (the left). Too, if you've ever ridden with a Colt holstered butt forward on the left side (the same side you hold the reins in), you'll remember your left elbow banging against the butt of that six gun in the trot and canter...big PITA believe me.

The saber was carried on the left side because it allowed it to be drawn by the right hand, across the body and perhaps of equal importance, it's nearly impossible to mount or dismount with that damned thing dangling around your right leg, where the carbine is...you'd have to fling the whole kit and kabootle over the freakin' cantle to get up into the saddle....not doable!

The cavalry...ours and other nations as well, had hundreds of years of experience to drawn on in designing the equipments, and only changed them reluctantly as arms and tactics evolved....of interest are the weights involved....

Cavalrymen, excepting officers who provided their own mounts, could not weigh more than 140 lbs during the indian war period because the equipment and tack that they carried was kept to 100 lbs....the total load being 240 lbs....and gov't horse suppliers and buyers bought and supplied re-mounts that were capable of carrying that weight for the specified tactical distances...yep....gov't mil spec even in 1860!

Tactically, they planned on 40 miles the first day of a campaign, 30 the 2nd, and 20 or less the third. Greater distances could be covered but at the imminent risk of horse breakdowns. Too, their baggage trains could not keep up beyond that.

For those with a desire to know more...Randy Steffen wrote and illustrated a series of US cavalry books covering the entire spectrum of usage from the Revolution to the bitter end in 1943...interesting reading and profusely illustrated in colored line drawings of horse equipment, weapons, and uniforms. Forty Miles a Day on Beans and Hay, by Rickey is also good on day to day life.

Again...Nice work, High Valley...Rodfac
__________________
Our Flag does not fly because the wind blows against it, it is moved instead, by the dying breath of our patriots in uniform. Our Freedom is not free, it's been paid for many times over.
USAF Forward Air Controller, 5th Spl Forces,
An Loc, lll Corps, RVN, 69-70, Vietnam Vet '69-'73
rodfac is offline  
Old December 1, 2010, 12:47 PM   #22
HighValleyRanch
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 15, 2005
Posts: 1,884
Thanks for that interesting information, Rodfac!

It is to my understanding, and perhaps you can confirm or deny, that the reason the military taught one handed shooting as the predominant technique was due to the fact of the cavalry soldier having to hold his reins in one hand, dismounted while shooting? Look at the shooting manuals of the military all the way through the second world war, and they show the old school one handed bullseye technique.

And of course that was the reason that the old west used one handed shooting as well.

Two handed shooting did not become the predominant technique until man separated from having to use a horse.
__________________
From the sweet grass to the slaughter house; From birth until death; We travel between these two eternities........from 'Broken Trail"
HighValleyRanch is offline  
Old December 1, 2010, 12:51 PM   #23
gdvan01
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 15, 2006
Location: Home of the first First Lady
Posts: 453
Looks nice! Good job with the background tool.
__________________
NRA Endowment Life Member

Proud Son of a former Tomb Guard
gdvan01 is offline  
Old December 1, 2010, 07:56 PM   #24
lashlaroe
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 20, 2010
Location: Central Florida
Posts: 180
HVR,

I agree that perhaps the Ruger Bearcat should be carried conventional butt rearward for the reason you mention. I'd be very interested to see the result you get if you do make one.

I believe that you may have pushed me forward into making a pancake style holster for my Father's Bearcat now. Only two issues remain for me. He has all the leathermaking tools and also the Bearcat. I may need to have my Mother pull a sneaky trick and get those items to me somehow (he lives 3-1/2 hours away).

Again, I love the style of this holster and would be somewhat surprised if nobody had ever thought of it before. Thanks.
__________________
Mike

As much as I believe that there is good in every person, I'm not so naive as to think that all people are essentially good. Evil and evil people exist. Deny that fact at your own risk.
lashlaroe is offline  
Old December 1, 2010, 09:40 PM   #25
op01jre
Member
 
Join Date: January 21, 2009
Posts: 26
That is one nice looking holster!!!
op01jre is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:14 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2014 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.13358 seconds with 7 queries