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Old November 20, 2010, 02:40 AM   #26
ethan95
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If the firearm is classified by the state as an "Assault Firearm" there should be a grace period of more than 48 hours. I would ask the FFL dealer to send you a certified letter of the directive that prompted his call to you.

1. You may be able to register the firearm

ya, 48 hours is quite short. And the FFL is absolutely giving me his version of the story in writing, in case this thing goes anywhere. I never thought about the fact that i should be able to register it, im definitely going to voice that idea. Other than that, if allowed, I'm sending the firearm to live with a freind until i move out of this state. I live literately 5 minutes from freedom (aka Pennsylvania). im about ready to swim across the Delaware right now

I wanted to thank everyone for there help in this matter. Your input and ideas are very helpful. Today was an enlightening day. I wont stand for this, and i hope my fellow NJ firearm enthusiasts will stand by my side. Thanks again, Ethan
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Old November 20, 2010, 07:57 AM   #27
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There was a case MANY years ago, when someone got arrested for a MAK-90, the state lost the case "ak type", and no pursed it further. While the law did no change, failing to challenge the it led to the ambiguous language rather flat. Note it was at this point that it was "legal" to purchase AK, AR, and other "type" rifles that were not an "assault weapon" due to "evil" features.

The main issue with the rifle might just be that it has "AK-47" stamped on it. Considering the above, and if the NRA would help, this could be a good case to challenge the AW ban in NJ. That is my own opinion.
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Old November 20, 2010, 10:36 AM   #28
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A local gun shop just contacted me about the firearm i recently purchased, an Inter Ordnance AK-47. the state police said the attorney general has decided the firearm is an "assault rifle" and the for all guns to be returned to the store within 48 hours.
Sorry, but this sounds totaly bogus. If the AG decided the firearm is illegal, the AG would not be having you return it to the gun shop (unless of course the gun shop has been ordered to refund your money, which you did not indicate). Otherwise, the AG would be having your turn in your gun to the police. If the gun is contraband for you to own, it is contraband for the gun shop as well, or has the AG made an additional interpretation of the NJ law saying it is okay for gun shops to possess contraband guns?

Sounds a bit incredible (but no more so that the AG saying you have to return the gun to the gun shop), but I would be willing to bet that upon returning it to the gun shop, you will have to sign the gun over to the gun shop, thereby absolving you of ownership and making the gunshop the owner. Then the gun shop gets a free gun with clear ownership.

Why would I think of such an incredible story? I googled the keywords from the topic and find no other such accounts matching the OP's gunstore confiscation story. I check three different AK47 boards and absolutely nobody else seems to be in New Jersey with an AK47 that is reporting the same story.

I may be wrong, but I can't find anything the corroborate the OP's story.
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Old November 20, 2010, 11:03 AM   #29
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No grandfather provisions?

Doesn't sound right.

Call the SAF and see if they know anything

AFS
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Old November 20, 2010, 11:57 AM   #30
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For what it's worth, there is nothing prohibiting you from storing your gun at your friend's house. You don't need to transfer ownership to your friend, put a trigger lock on it and keep the key.
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Old November 20, 2010, 12:46 PM   #31
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Sorry, but this sounds totaly bogus. If the AG decided the firearm is illegal, the AG would not be having you return it to the gun shop (unless of course the gun shop has been ordered to refund your money, which you did not indicate). Otherwise, the AG would be having your turn in your gun to the police. If the gun is contraband for you to own, it is contraband for the gun shop as well, or has the AG made an additional interpretation of the NJ law saying it is okay for gun shops to possess contraband guns?

Sounds a bit incredible (but no more so that the AG saying you have to return the gun to the gun shop), but I would be willing to bet that upon returning it to the gun shop, you will have to sign the gun over to the gun shop, thereby absolving you of ownership and making the gunshop the owner. Then the gun shop gets a free gun with clear ownership.

Why would I think of such an incredible story? I googled the keywords from the topic and find no other such accounts matching the OP's gunstore confiscation story. I check three different AK47 boards and absolutely nobody else seems to be in New Jersey with an AK47 that is reporting the same story.
First off, it is an incredible story, but that doesn't make it not true. I do have the option to receive a refund, but that doesn't make it all ok. Why there are no other posts about it, im not sure, this is NJ, there arnt many of us firearm owners here. If you doubt it that much i welcome you to call the New Jersey State Police, who are acting on behalf of the AG, here is there number (609)-882-2000. This is an amazing story, and im not a liar, and neither is my firearms dealer. Heres the gun manufactures number as well, there not accepting calls at this time (how convenient) (704) 225-8843
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Old November 20, 2010, 03:20 PM   #32
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..a radical idea:

Have you read the Constitution?

Not once but twice, it states that there shall be no ex post facto law. What this AG is doing is violating that very item.
Next, this is your property now and you have a right to property and it cannot be "confiscated", er that is stolen, without due process of law. Where is the due process in this mess?

I am not a lawyer. However, if this situation is as you say, these clowns (AG, and the troopers who would come to steal your property) should be taught a lesson.

Here is what I would do. Take the gun out of state along with any other firearms you may have. Deliver them to a friend who can be trusted. Do not speak to this friend on your cell phone or any other device that can be monitored. Perhaps call from a pay phone or a another friends home. Be certain you have no guns or ammo in your home and then wait for the door to be kicked in. Make no threats, answer no questions, comply with nothing they are demanding. Force the state's hand on this one.

We are either a nation of laws or we have lawlessness...and from what I am seeing all over the country it is the latter. Let this case prove the point one way or another.

Just one more reason why I cannot fathom why anyone would live in N.J.
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Old November 20, 2010, 06:20 PM   #33
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First off, it is an incredible story, but that doesn't make it not true. I do have the option to receive a refund, but that doesn't make it all ok. Why there are no other posts about it, im not sure, this is NJ, there arnt many of us firearm owners here. If you doubt it that much i welcome you to call the New Jersey State Police, who are acting on behalf of the AG, here is there number (609)-882-2000. This is an amazing story, and im not a liar, and neither is my firearms dealer. Heres the gun manufactures number as well, there not accepting calls at this time (how convenient) (704) 225-8843
Members here would like to help you and have an interest in you dilemma. Can you give us the name and phone number of the gun shop where you purchased the rifle and the date of your purchase?
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Old November 20, 2010, 07:10 PM   #34
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Members here would like to help you and have an interest in you dilemma. Can you give us the name and phone number of the gun shop where you purchased the rifle and the date of your purchase?
I thank you all very much for your concern and help in this matter. as of 2:00 pm today the firearm was back in the hands of the store and i received a full refund (including tax). i don't feel comfortable giving out the name and number of the store, as this situation really wasn't there fault. They were very sorry(and quite angry) about the situation; and also said i can have a discount on any another firearm. Inter Ordnance has filled a law suite against the the state, the gun stores across the state are standing behind them. Last night there was a meeting regarding the matter with the NRA and a law firm from NJ. The NRA has there top lawyers on it. My name has been put on file with the gun store and in the case that the firearm is deemed legal, i will have the option to receive the same one i originally had. At this time there is no agenda for me to join in the suite against the state.



The updated complete story

The firearm i purchased was being sold on a very large scale, upon review of the monthly firearm sales, the AG noticed this particular firearm. The AG then determend the firearm to be an "assault rifle", and there for illegal by law. The NJ State Police were then involved. The NJSP contacted all FFL dealers and asked if they sold the firearm, and told each FFL they had 6 hours to gather the names and info of all people who purchased the firearm, and submit it to the NJSP. After realizing the massive amount of the firearms that were sold, the NJSP told all FFl dealers they had 48 hours "re-acquire" all firearms sold by them, and after 48 hours anyone who didn't return the firearm, their information needed to be submitted to the NJSP, and officers would then retrieve them. I was then contacted by the store i purchased the firearm from. Inter Ordnance was contacted by the state police and made aware of the situation. Inter Ordnance then contacted the NRA, and a law firm in NJ. Inter Ordnance has decided to take legal action against the state of New Jersey.
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Old November 20, 2010, 08:01 PM   #35
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First off, it is an incredible story, but that doesn't make it not true.
Nobody has said this. However, the wilder the story, the more likely that it isn't going to be factual. Take the 48 hours. When did the 48 hours start? When does it end? There is no way that the 48 hours is determined by when the gun shop contacts you. It would be from the time of issuance of the ruling/decision or from a specified type stipulated in the ruling/decision. It is not likely to be inclusive of a Sunday as Sunday isn't a typical business day and not all businesses are open Sunday.

Quote:
ya, 48 hours is quite short. And the FFL is absolutely giving me his version of the story in writing, in case this thing goes anywhere.
So the gun shop doesn't have anything offical in writing either? The owner is going to write you a note. Come on!

Quote:
This is an amazing story, and im not a liar, and neither is my firearms dealer.
But did you call the other gun shops as you said you would?

Quote:
Tomorrow morning, call a few other gun shops for confirmation, as well.
Quote:
sounds like a good idea to me, will do.
So tomorrow morning was this morning. Funny you didn't report how all the other shops are scampering around to collect firearms.

But wait, what is this....http://njgunforums.com/forum/index.p...__confiscation

According to the source there, the time limit is 24 hours, not 48. How could that be different? I am certain that gun shops would not be interpretting the AG's mandates differently as the AG would have made a specific statement. Somebody isn't exactly telling the truth.

From reading the thread, it would appear that the time period is arbitrary. IO shipped guns to dealers in NJ that are not compliant with the law for some reason. Dealers are requesting the guns back for IO, not operating as an extension of the State Police.

The time frame to return the rifles to the dealers is arbitrary. Apparently dealers are contacting customers and trying to pressure them into returning the guns as quickly as possible. So yeah, somebody is definitely lying.

Contacting the NJSP wasn't terribly helpful. The person who answered had no knowledge of any pending IO AK47 type rifle confiscations...and I wasn't the first to call.
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Old November 20, 2010, 09:16 PM   #36
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But did you call the other gun shops as you said you would?
I did, one said they don't sell the firearm and have no knowledge about the situation, the other said the NJSP were ordering all the firearms to be returned to the store.
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Old November 20, 2010, 09:43 PM   #37
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ethan95,

There is very little mention of this on the Web in any other forums. This is very unusual. If this were a week day, there would be followup with local gun shops and with the manufacturers distributors for claims that have been made.

You could help others here by uploading a copy of your refund receipt (marked out), the name of the gun shop, a letter from the gun shop, attendees of the NRA meeting or any other information about this situation that you were involved in regarding this incident.
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Old November 20, 2010, 10:04 PM   #38
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Just pokin' around a bit, most dealers won't ship this firearm to NJ at all.

It's almost as if dealers received it in error and had to recall them.

Very strange.

I'm wondering if there will be a court docket available on Monday.

--Wag--
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Old November 25, 2010, 04:51 PM   #39
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Anybody have an update on this "situation"?
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Old November 25, 2010, 06:03 PM   #40
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I have to wonder if the dealer has this right. If NJ says it's now a prohibited weapon (my words), then they need the ability to track back on who/when/where/etc in the event they want to get nasty with an owner or some bureaucrat wants to show he's made all the appropriate contacts.
Verbally passing this on gives them no audit trail, and the FFL's could claim all the weapons were reportedly out of state / whatever would appease the state.
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Old November 25, 2010, 07:02 PM   #41
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Reminds me of the the ATI GSG-5SD debacle with the BAFTE declaring the hollow shrouds suppressors. Not sure BAFTE has ever issued a letter regarding the issue, only paperwork I've ever seen posted was a comical MS-Paint diagram of the two different shrouds. Seemed they didn't wanna put anything on paper least someone want to try to make something of it.
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Old November 25, 2010, 11:40 PM   #42
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Update:

Whelp, right now its all just a matter of what happens on the legal end of things. Inter Ordnance has filed a law suite, with help from the NRA. I returned the firearm, as requested, and received a full refund (i actually turned it right into a slightly used Beretta 92 brigadier for $500) So far no angry calls from the NJSP. This situation has had me furious. I now have plans to venture across the border into freedom (PA) permanently, this coming summer. Any more updates ill be sure to let you guys know. Thanks a bunch.
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Old November 25, 2010, 11:42 PM   #43
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Reminds me of the the ATI GSG-5SD debacle with the BAFTE declaring the hollow shrouds suppressors.
Funny you should say that.... i noticed them for sale in my local shop just the other day, barrel shroud and all. Here we go again. lucky i didnt buy one i was sure thinking bout it.
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Old November 26, 2010, 10:33 AM   #44
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It is not 'ex post facto' if the law was already in place that the AG claims was violated.

Using 'Kalashnikov style' in a law makes it a legal term (and within the purview of the courts to figure out what it means).

requiring the buyer to return the gun to the dealer is NOT a confiscation.

If the police came and took it without compensation it would be 'confiscated.'

The whole thing sounds like someone screwed up and shipped and then sold guns that under state law are prohibited (at least the AG thinks so).

The GA probably threatened the dealer with a world of hurt if they did not get the guns returned.

It would appear the state is running amuck, but it is going to take deep pockets (and maybe a conviction) to move it out of the state courts and into the federal system.

Last edited by brickeyee; November 26, 2010 at 10:39 AM.
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Old November 26, 2010, 04:35 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by ethan95
Funny you should say that.... i noticed them for sale in my local shop just the other day, barrel shroud and all. Here we go again. lucky i didnt buy one i was sure thinking bout it.
They've collected nearly all the old style shrouds from the GSG-5, only old shrouds would be in private hands, and that line had to be discontinued. Any new stock is a GSG-522 which was the result of the settlement the H&K lawsuit, they had to make some cosmetic changes. I wouldn't be scared to pick one up, if the grip isn't studded the shroud screws off real quick to check if it is post recall.
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Old November 26, 2010, 05:06 PM   #46
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I don't know how y'all can live in those anti-American/firearms states...

IMO, a threat to send cops to my home to confiscate my lowly semi-auto rifle is a straight up act of war.
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Old November 26, 2010, 06:58 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by TeamSinglestack
I don't know how y'all can live in those anti-American/firearms states...

IMO, a threat to send cops to my home to confiscate my lowly semi-auto rifle is a straight up act of war.
I see. So while the rest of us are supporting the court cases that are just now starting to define what the Court said, for the first time in US History I might add, was an individual right not connected to any militia service ... You are gonna go off half-cocked and declare (reciprocal) war on the cops?

This is the absolutist type of attitude that has in the past and will in the future set the 2A movement back. A decade or two.
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Old November 26, 2010, 08:09 PM   #48
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This is the absolutist type of attitude that has in the past and will in the future set the 2A movement back. A decade or two.

I completely agree!! Not handling this situation reasonably and rationally, and threatening physical violence. Just gives more, for lack of a better word, ammo to those who actively oppose the 2A.
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Old December 1, 2010, 02:02 AM   #49
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scare tactics but effective

I think the majority were recovered, but they did some fishing that day, week, month, and not all the fish were caught. I don't think the ones that didn't get the letter by accident, had moved to a different address, etc are responsible legally. I would've returned it too ethan. I just know some other brave soul still has his and he might not be illegal right now. I mean, some of the other posts were right, when did the 48hrs start and the gun store was the one trying. weird. Any responses that disobyed in the end might be in trouble but the ones that just totally ignored might be in the clear until they're engaged. PLEASE keep us posted.
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Old June 19, 2011, 06:04 PM   #50
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You've not been paying attention to NJ.

Back when Jim Florio pushed through the AW ban, none of them were allowed to be kept. You had 2 choices-turn them in, or move them out of state. NO GRANDFATHERING what-so-ever. Same thing with magazines over 15 rounds. This never happened before in this country. And the people of NJ did nothing! Sure, Florio lost the next election, over a sales tax issue, but all his buddies kept their elected offices. Most of Florios buddies are still there.
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