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Old November 14, 2010, 09:44 PM   #1
50of4064
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Mauser safety issue

What seems to be a Peruvian Mauser, I have been told it is some sort of short rifle, and the safety lever orientation is not like any I have seen.

Receiver marking: Cz.ZBROJOVKA AKC. S PDLVBRNE
model 1932

Ring markings: There is a crest but it is not in the best shape
PEPUBLICA PERUANA

serial # 043XX

I am puzzled with what seems to be a 180 degree reversal of the safety set up on my Peruvian Mauser as compared to my CZ.

Photo 1
The shroud/hood - cocking tang - Peruvian Mauser is on the left.

The shroud/hood- and safety from the CZ is on the right.

Notice the radius that is milled out on the left side of the shroud (Peruvian Mauser) and compare that to the CZ on the right, almost as if this is set up as a left hand safety.

Photo 2
Notice the milled out half moons and flat edge on the left safety and it's orientation to which way the handle is pointing, compare it to the CZ safety on the right, seems to be 180 degrees apart. The assembly is opposite also when attaching the safety to the shroud/hood.




Thank you for your help

Dennis
Attached Images
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File Type: jpg IMG_1680.jpg (244.7 KB, 75 views)

Last edited by 50of4064; November 14, 2010 at 09:52 PM.
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Old November 15, 2010, 11:48 AM   #2
James K
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Robert Ball, in Mauser Military Rifles of the World says that the Peruvian Model 1935, made by FN, has a reversed safety, but does not indicate that the Czech-made Model 1932 does. Either the Model 1932 was also made with the reversed safety or a Model 1935 sleeve and safety was put on a Model 1932.

Either way, yes, the Peruvians did use Mauser 98 type rifles with reversed safeties. As to why, I have no idea, but maybe they had the same problems U.S. target shooters did with the M1903 safety doing a quick "nose job" on stock crawlers, resulting in the reversed safety used on some M1903 match rifles.

Jim
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Old November 15, 2010, 11:15 PM   #3
50of4064
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Reversed Safety

Thank you for the information, this was throwing me for a loop! Is this a publication that you noted ? I wounder if there are other reversed safety's that were manufactured?

The cocking tang does not have any other slots in it to allow the safety to rotate into the two other positions, and will a standard 98 shroud and cocking tang and safety lever be able to fit it? Will have to try this and see.

Thanks again you have been to kind

God bless

Dennis
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Old November 16, 2010, 02:59 PM   #4
James K
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That safety should work exactly like any other Mauser 98 safety, except reversed. It should have the normal three positions (on safe, takedown, and off safe). I see no reason why a standard bolt sleeve and safety cannot be substituted, in fact I think that the one in there was swapped from a Model 1935 rifle.

The only thing is that when swapping Mauser sleeves and safeties, make sure the replacement fits properly, cams the cocking piece back properly, and that there is sear reset. (To check the latter, make sure the gun is not loaded. Then cock the gun, put the safety on, pull the trigger, then release the safety. If the firing pin falls, the sear is not resetting and you need to replace parts until it does.)

I checked some sites on native Americans and find that some South American Indians had rather prominent probosces. It is sheer speculation, but I wonder if those rifles were not intended for issue to folks of that ancestry.

Jim
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Old November 17, 2010, 10:18 PM   #5
50of4064
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Dear Jim: I really want to thank you for your support! I have been working with what you have given me and am of the conclusion that the sleeve, safety and cocking piece just may be incorrect for that model 1932, even though they may fit the bolt and it still cocks on opening the notch in the cocking piece does not align with the safety, thus not allowing the safety to cam over.

I need to take the cocking piece off of my Mauser conversion as I don't have an extra one. The sleeve and safety are from that project and were replaced when I put on a Timney trigger w/safety.

I did order the book you mentioned and look forward to learning more.

I attached a photo of my Mauser conversion for your review.

I remain
Dennis

http://thefiringline.com/forums/atta...0&d=1278566657
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Old November 18, 2010, 04:39 PM   #6
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Nice.

Jim
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Old September 3, 2012, 05:42 AM   #7
F. Guffey
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Old thread warning, yes, I am aware.

The Peruvian Mauser had a clock position of 3 to fire, 12 for safety and and 9 to lock the bolt. As to why? I ask the same question years ago from the Mauser smiths and Collectors in the Dallas area, one smith said it is in the book, I ask “Which book?” he handed me “The book”. I ask “Where? ‘in the book”, again, he said it is in the book, he landed me the book, I took it home, read the book over and over, nothing. I returned the book, he wanted to know if I found the information I was looking for, and I said “Yes”, and he wanted to know “Where? in the book”.
The author had little to no knowledge of the safety, he simply said the right hand safety was not rare, so I ask the smith for a right hand Mauser safety, he said he had 600+ Mauser safeties, he claimed all were left hand safeties. I suggested the right hand safety was rare, not as rare as whale poo poo but rare non the less, my friend has never seen whale poo-poo and he had never seen a right hand safety, he did contact collectors, same results, they all drew blanks.
At the time I had three right hand safeties.
There was only one model of Mauser built with a right hand safety, a Peruvian Colonel? tried to reinvent the art of ‘aiming’ there was Rudyard Kipling, there was A. Cannon Doyle, Alvin York and George R. Farr. There were the Orange Free State of neighbors and Spain’s troops in Cuba, nothing suspect about the accuracy of their rifles and their ability to ‘AIM’.
http://www.nrablog.com/post/2011/09/...903-rifle.aspx
The Peruvian instructor at the range required shooters to climb/move forward on the receiver, doing so caused the nose of the shooter to be against the safety when the rifle was fire. The practice of placing the face against safety required a change in the design, the safety was moved to the right side to fire. Not easy to be accurate if a shooter knows the nose is going to get busted when the trigger is pulled.
There are shooters that claim classes taken in school taught the Peruvian technique.

When assembling a 98 Mauser bolt the safety is one of the first pieces installed into the bolt sleeve, if a Peruvian right hand safety is installed in to a 98 left hand safety it can be installed last.
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Old September 3, 2012, 06:01 AM   #8
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““Dear Jim: I really want to thank you for your support! I have been working with what you have given me and am of the conclusion that the sleeve, safety and cocking piece just may be incorrect for that model 1932, even though they may fit the bolt and it still cocks on opening the notch in the cocking piece does not align with the safety, thus not allowing the safety to cam over.

I need to take the cocking piece off of my Mauser conversion as I don't have an extra one. The sleeve and safety are from that project and were replaced when I put on a Timney trigger w/safety””

First: Determine how the safety is secured and why it must be installed into the bolt sleeve first,, Installing last: The Peruvian safety will fall out of the bolt sleeve when the rifle muzzle is trained skyward, there is nothing to hold the safety.

Again, I have 3 right hand safeties, I have 60 plus left hand safeties, the safety is a custom fit on the Mauser, finding a safety that fits is a matter of checking the beveled cam that engages the cocking piece, the cam on the Peruvian Masuer is on the opposite side of the of the 98 safety.

Cock on open, the firing end of the firing pon is flat, the flat end of the firing pin engages the front of the bolt like a screw driver engaging a straight slotted screw. the slot prevents the firing pin to rotate. The locking of the firing pin forces the cocking piece to move reward when engaged into the cam slot in the rear of the bolt.

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Old September 3, 2012, 08:35 PM   #9
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Hi, Mr. Guffey:

What Peruvian instructor at what range? I am also curious about the relevance of the link you posted.

I don't have a "backward" safety or bolt sleeve, so I can't check out what you wrote, but I don't see how a safety of the "backward" type could be installed in a sleeve of the normal type. How did you get it to work?

Jim
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Old September 4, 2012, 10:56 AM   #10
F. Guffey
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"That safety should work exactly like any other Mauser 98 safety, except reversed. It should have the normal three positions (on safe, takedown, and off safe). I see no reason why a standard bolt sleeve and safety cannot be substituted, in fact I think that the one in there was swapped from a Model 1935 rifle"

There was only one Mauser type rifle built with a reversed (right hand) safety).


"The only thing is that when swapping Mauser sleeves and safeties, make sure the replacement fits properly, cams the cocking piece back properly, and that there is sear reset. (To check the latter, make sure the gun is not loaded. Then cock the gun, put the safety on, pull the trigger, then release the safety. If the firing pin falls, the sear is not resetting and you need to replace parts until it does.)"



The only way to get the safety into that configuration is set the safety first as when installing the bolt, set the safety in the 12 O’clock position then install the bolt. That is the only way the safety can be behind the trigger, that is unless your Mauser bolts are different from my Mauser bolts.

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Old September 8, 2012, 06:16 AM   #11
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“The only thing is that when swapping Mauser sleeves and safeties, make sure the replacement fits properly, cams the cocking piece back properly, and that there is sear reset. (To check the latter, make sure the gun is not loaded. Then cock the gun, put the safety on, pull the trigger, then release the safety. If the firing pin falls, the sear is not resetting and you need to replace parts until it does.)”

No load, new word: In the normal configuration when the safety is on the trigger does not have a load on it, the firing pin is supported by the safety, pulling the trigger is effortless, but if the firing pin assemble is supported by the trigger sear the safety is in a no load condition. If when the safety is raised the cam can not move the firing pin assembly back the safety will not engage.

When the safety is installed the safety must be engaged in the 12 O’clock position, again after the bolt is rotated into the closed position the trigger does not have a load on it, again, the safety is supporting the firing pin assemble. “If the firing pin falls, the sear is not resetting and you need to replace parts until it does” Again, under those circumstances the safety can not be raised.

I suggested someone should determine how the safety is retained, I said the 98 left hand safety is installed into the bolt sleeve first, I said the right hand safety can be installed into the 98 bolt sleeve last, meaning the right hand safety when installed into a 98 left hand bolt sleeve the right hand can be installed last, meaning there is nothing retaining the right hand safety, again, the safety falls out when the muzzle is raised.

When I returned the book to my friend he ask “what’s the answer?” I said “It is in the book”. He was told the information was in the book, he could not find anything on the right hand safety in the books he was selling. Then he ask “What did it say”, I responded with “The right hand safety was not rare” I had to agree, I have seen a right hand safety for a Mauser, I have three of them, I have never seen whale poo poo, that makes whale poo poo more rare than left hand safeties. The owner of the gun shop had 600 left hand safeties, he did not have a right hand safety.

I did not say I fixed anything, before the rifle was completed a Buehler safety was installed, as to the three right hand safeties, the cams are progressive, one of the three will fit.

Who was the instructor? You are not going to believe this, I was told he did not drink beer very often, but, when he did he drank 2XX .

http://milpas.cc/rifles/ZFiles/Bolt%...0Info/peru.htm

I checked some sites on native Americans and find that some South American Indians had rather prominent proboscis. It is sheer speculation, but I wonder if those rifles were not intended for issue to folks of that ancestry.


“It is sheer speculation”?

http://www.fn-browning.com/fn.htm

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