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Old November 10, 2010, 11:26 PM   #51
larryh1108
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Generally an SS means Stainless Steel. I can't tell by your pic if it's stainless or nickel or even if it is blued... hard to tell.
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Old November 11, 2010, 12:05 AM   #52
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choices

I've got both the Seecamp .32 and .380---they are exactly the same size. the .380 does kick quite a bit more but I figure I'm not gonna notice it if I really have to use the gun to defend myself--I'm gonna keep pulling the trigger til the gun just clicks .
My wife won't shoot the .380 at all and hates to shoot the .32 (her CCW is an HK P2000sk in 9mm) but I think handling the snappy recoil is worth it to have a gun this small in my pocket--it's VERY easy to pocket the Seecamp (there's no other .32 or .380 smaller) and there's a lot of great pocket holsters available for it.

They're excellent quality guns--and the prices have come down to list over the past few months--$795 for the .380 and around $400 for the .32---don't pay very much more--look on gunbroker and you can find a number of new sealed in the box Seecamp .380s going for around $800--the dealer who offered you one for over $1000 is living in the past--the supply has caught up with demand and they're going for around list price now (the .380s were around $1500 a year ago if you could even find one) There is a dedicated Seecamp forum-- http://seecamp.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl that is a great source of info on them and the owner of the company (Larry Seecamp) lists his cell phone number so if you have any problems (they're guaranteed for life--even to 2nd and 3rd owners) you just call Larry directly and he takes care of any issues (not had any with mine)

I also have a couple of Rohrbaugh R-9s and they're great guns (9mm) but they are a bit bigger than the Seecamps (Rohrbaughs are the smallest 9mms made just as Seecamps are the smallest .32 and .380s made). If you want to go with one of those, they're going for about $1100 new and $800-900 for a used one in excellent condition. there is a dedicated Rohrbaugh forum as well--- www.rohrbaughforum.com

If you buy either of these, I strongly recommend adding the magazine extensions like IMTHDUKE shows on his Seecamp and R9 on his earlier post--I have them also and they make a huge difference in handling the recoil and they only add about a half-inch to the length---they're available from forum members on both sites.

good luck in your search!

Last edited by jetboater; November 11, 2010 at 12:25 AM.
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Old November 11, 2010, 12:26 AM   #53
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I've read about the Rohrbaughs and visited their site, but I have reservations that I'd like to overcome.

Basically the owners' range reports have indicated more than a couple failures to feed/fire. This seems to stem from the pistol being picky about ammo, or the pistol's construction tolerances being so tight that bits of metal shavings mess with the proper functioning.

Since the gun is a carry much, shoot little piece, I worry that it might leave me in the cold when most needed. Now I always thought that one big reason for the 1911's success was that it was built with sloppy enough tolerances that it would work under the most challenging environmental circumstances. So the close tolerances of the Rohrbaugh, coupled with the observed problems, make me nervous.

I'd like to hear from owners who can speak to the problem, or to their lack of problems.
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Old November 11, 2010, 01:17 AM   #54
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The R9s can be a little picky about ammo--I run WWB at the range and Gold Dots (115gr) as my carry ammo. I've put about 600 rounds thru one of mine and at least a couple of hundred thru the other (it has more than that as I bought it used.) and I've not had any feed or fire problems---they do have tight tolerances (they're basiclly CAD machined from solid blocks of aluminum alloy for the frames and solid steel for the slides) and then hand fitted. There are a few shavings that come off the slides where they slide on the rails but it's only for a few rounds as it fully breaks in and then is done.
They're kinda a love it or hate it pistol---It's difficult to field strip them and it's slow to change magazines (it has a european mag release on the heel so it's "no snag" in your pocket) and it also doesn't have a slide lock to lock it back when the mag is empty. If these are important features to someone. then this is probably not the gun for them. I don't carry an extra mag (7 rounds are fine for me) and thus the mag release location and lack of slide lockback are of no concern to me and actually make the gun simpler and slimmer to carry..
I also have HKs, Colts, Walthers, Seecamps that are all good guns , and I have no worry about the reliability of the Rohrbaugh going bang every time as well---it also comes with a lifetime warranty and the owner of the company, Eric Rohrbaugh, stands behind it totally so if you did happen to get one that had some sort of problem (it does happen--no brand, no matter how good, is 100% every time on every gun), it's fixed asap (or replaced) and back to you with no hassle or question whatsoever--and that's whether the gun is brand new or years old.
I really can't recommend both Seecamps or Rohrbaughs highly enough--the customer service, should you ever need it, is just amazing and the quality of both guns is exceptional
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Old November 11, 2010, 08:12 AM   #55
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+1 for the Kahr PM9 mentioned by Goldenstate. It is small enough for pocket carry, and is in an acceptable caliber as a main carry-9mm. A .380 is too small a caliber, and lacks power for a main carry gun. The Kahr PM9 is almost as small as most .380s anyway, so why carry a gun that is too under powered? The .380 is a back up gun for last resort, up close head shots. (IMO) 124g Speer Gold Dot +P hollowpoints are an excellent load for the 9mm.
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Old November 11, 2010, 11:29 AM   #56
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Never had a problem with mine.....

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Old November 11, 2010, 02:31 PM   #57
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I have a second generation Kel-Tec P3AT. It's a fine mouse gun in 380 auto.

It quite a bit less expensive than the very similar Ruger LCP (Elsie Pea) and looks it. Some say you have to fire a P3AT 100-200 times to break it in and make it reliable, but I didn't. I just field stripped mine, cleaned the barrel and slide (I used my wifes fingernail polish remover. Worked like a charm) and then "fluffed and buffed" it, lubed it with gun oil, particularly the slide rails, and reassembled.

I won't waste your time explaining how to field strip a P3AT or perform a fluff and buff. If you're interested there's an excellent video on You Tube that'll walk you through the proccess step-by-step. Just use your browser and type in Kel;Tec P3AT; You Tube; field strip; fluff and buff and you should find it.
I used 400 grit wet-dry sandpaper to smooth the rough spots on my gun - and hey!, there were a few rough spots -, then I used 600 grit wet-dry sandpaper to polish the feeding ramp and visible unblued metal parts.

My P3AT's worked like a charm ever since - EXCEPT with a certain type of aluminum cased ammo that it just doesn't like and will not feed properly. My gun only likes properly headspaced brass shell casings and it mostly likes round nose ammo. I don't go very far away from those things because the most important thing I expect from a gun is that it goes BANG! 100% of the time that I pull the trigger.
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Old November 11, 2010, 11:14 PM   #58
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Quote:
Generally an SS means Stainless Steel. I can't tell by your pic if it's stainless or nickel or even if it is blued... hard to tell.
LARYYH1108,

duh, yep I was missing something. thank you as I was lost in the sauce and I did just say that.lol. it is stainless. I checked ahead of time to make sure it wasnt nickel. the cellphone pix is definately lacking, I actually sent it to my email too because I wanted to have a picture of it for my records. I'm not worried about it, but do you know where the serial# would be on this firearm larry? I also liked how it came with the manufacturer's testfire shot sealed and signed. ruger did that but my taurus never had one. I bought three pistol packs(little things with zippers) today. I had to get one for the wife. I know having packs and purses and such aren't really good mixes when you need a ccw and they'r easier to lose when they're not on your person, but I dont want hers to get dirty. I also figured I'd buy three for each piece(one for each). travelling or whatever-they're good to have even though I am not using them now. one thing is for sure, the uncle mike holsters and then having the holstered gun in the uncle mikes zipper pistol pack is sort of a bad mix. they slip and slide and everything(beause the weapon's holster is made to have an easy grab of the firearm without itself moving and the weapon will slide out of the holster). I think its better to just put the firearm alone in the protector if and when they get used. I was upset the gp100 6" ruger .357 just barely doesnt fit in his. I guess if I ever used it I could zip it all the way to the grip on the butt- that pistol pack is 'allen'
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Old November 12, 2010, 12:25 AM   #59
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real, those are some meaty grips. I'd guess that if you remove the grips that you will find the serial number on the grip frame somewhere. Let us know if you can't find it there.
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Old November 12, 2010, 06:08 AM   #60
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the serial # should be on the bottom of the grip frame and repeated on the frame under the crane.
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Old November 12, 2010, 07:02 AM   #61
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The Seecamp is indeed the Mercedes of mouse guns. The .32 ACP is very popular. The .380 model is in such short supply, that it is very difficult to get. People commonly end up paying well over list price for the .380 model. They commonly sell for around $950 In contrast, one can pick up the .32 ACP model for only $450 That is a huge difference in price.

These are really well-built, quality guns:







.

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Old November 12, 2010, 07:27 AM   #62
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The Kahr PM9 is for all practical purposes just as compact as the R9.

The PM9 is my pocket carry gun:



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Old November 12, 2010, 02:15 PM   #63
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Where IS Playboypenguin?
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Old November 12, 2010, 08:14 PM   #64
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Where IS Playboypenguin?
Probably stuck on that Carnival Cruise ship, with everyone else.
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Old November 12, 2010, 09:19 PM   #65
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THANK YOU. I should've known the KY bit. that explains why I used to have trouble remembering which the 3rd was: KY or PA. lol, ps- Orionengnr, I tried to reply to your PM but the system said I was not allowed to send a PM to you so thats why I am sending here

Quote:
Originally Posted by orionengnr
Quote:
IMO the 32acp is a little less in power but kicks way, way less than a 380acp.
This illustrates a lot of peoples' misconceptions of .32 vice .380. It is impossible to have "a little less power" but "a lot less kick" in the same sized weapon. Once again, Newton's Third. A Seecamp .32 is a lot more pleasnt to shoot than a .380, and a Kel-Tec P32 is a lot more pleasant to shoot than a P3AT. To the extent that I will never carry a .32 or smaller for any reason.

For that matter, I own an LCP and a Kahr PM9, and very seldom carry either...but that is me. I consider the .380 marginal, and the 9mm as minimum...I am not a big guy, and I'm not a young guy, but I can (and do) carry a .45acp year round. I don't expect you to take that as Gospel, but you came looking for advice.

BTW, there are four Commonwealths in the US.
KY
MA
PA
VA
Best regards, Rich
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Old November 12, 2010, 09:23 PM   #66
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LANCEOREGON,

you know you aren't helping me get over the fact that I passed on the seecamp, right? I would love to have a seecamp .380 with a large stock of silvertips. Your picture is making me regret my decision(regret is a strong word - I Love the S&W 649). if my wife does CCW a lot and more and more over time, I will need a backup pocketgun as she will be carrying hers. I figure I have two now(one being hers), but I always want to have two. I really hope the price comes down. someone was saying 800something on gunbroker or wherever. everywhere I looked was over a grand for a new .380. the dealers said they can only buy 3 every 2 yrs themselves
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Old November 13, 2010, 02:23 AM   #67
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Is the Seecamp really smaller in all dimensions than the Kel-Tec P3AT and Ruger Elsie pea? I've never seen or held one, but my .25 cal. Beretta 950 is also smaller than both a P3ATand an Elsie pea in the dimensions Playboy Penguin highlighted in that illustration shown a few posts above, but that's not the whole deal.

Believe it or not, the Beretta 950 is considerably thicker than my P3AT is, and unloaded at least, it's heavier than the weight of an unloaded P3AT too. (I'm not sure which gun is lighter when they are loaded.)

I purchased these guns for one reason only, and that's so in my job, I could conceal one of them on my person and take it with me in places where I didn't want to be seen carrying a gun, but didn't want to go without one either, and where I knew that any larger gun would be spotted.

I carried my little Beretta 950 at work for years, concealed in an Uncle Mikes #1 front pocket holster, without being caught and fired, but I was never satisfied with the tiny caliber and switched to a 1st generation P3AT when they came along. Later I bought a 2nd generation P3AT so now I have two. (Actually, my wife has the first one now.) Both work flawlessly with good quality brass cased ball ammo if kept clean.

I think my .380 P3AT's conceal better than my .25 Beretta did because they thinner than the Beretta and no heavier; and of course the .380 guns are much bigger hitters than either a .25 or a .32 would be. In fact 380 is usually considered the absolute minimum caliber one should consider for any kind of SD.

Seecamps just come in .32 don't they?
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Old November 13, 2010, 02:53 AM   #68
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In fact 380 is usually considered the absolute minimum caliber one should consider for any kind of SD.
Really? says who?

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Old November 13, 2010, 03:10 AM   #69
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Why, all the "experts."
Didn't you know that .32s only travel about 20 feet, and bounce off blue jean jackets?
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Old November 13, 2010, 03:45 AM   #70
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Seecamps just come in .32 don't they?
DG45,

you have probably read more since, but in case not: the seecamp has a .380 the same exact size as the .32 seecamp. the guy handcrafts each weapon. I know everyone: "Whoopee"(sarcasm), but that is cool in my book!! the son taking over for his dad gets some points too
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Old November 13, 2010, 04:13 AM   #71
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Where IS Playboypenguin?
I honestly don't know why he disappeared from this website. He used to be a frequent poster here, but I see that he has not been here since March of this year.

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Old November 13, 2010, 07:11 AM   #72
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There are 5 criteria to consider in no particular order: price, power, size, weight, and shootability. Since you are considering the Seecamp .380, price is obviously no object to consider for you. However, a gun is a personal thing and I suggest you think about getting a gun for you and a gun for her. I mean, how are you going to share a gun other than at the range? Also what's "best" for you may not be "best" for her. Your hands are probably different and you probably dress and will therefore carry differently.

Size - 2 ways to look at this
1) What is the smallest size pocket or other place of concealment I and my spouse intend to carry this weapon?
2) What is the smallest size pocket or other place of concealment I and my spouse intend to carry this weapon the vast majority of the time?

Power - what is the most power I can pack into the space I chose under the size Criteria?

Shootability - Can I and my spouse handle the weapon I chose under the power criteria? Will we be using it with our weak hand? Is it worth trading off on the power criteria to get something more shootable? The 3 most important aspects of shootability are weight, recoil and sights.

Weight - a simple tradeoff of portability vs. shootability

I think the Seecamp .380 is probably a mistake for both of you mainly because it falls into that category of guns that are absolutely no fun to shoot.

Here are several good guns you should consider. Find a range and see if any of them are available to rent. Also most ranges that sell guns may have some used ones they will let you try before you buy. They are roughly diminishing in size.

baby Glock - Will fit in a pocket holster with baggy pants. They come in 9mm, 357 Sig, .40 and .45 GAP. I prefer the G26 9mm because it holds the most rounds, 10.

SP101 .357 - Because it is all steel and has rubber grips it is surprisingly controllable and is the most effective caliber.

Kahr PM9 - Good tradeoff being powerful in 9mm, light, shootable, and concealable in most front pockets being about the size of a Walther PPK. In fact, this gun goes a long way toward making the .380 obsolete. I carry this gun in a front left pocket holster about 90% of the time.

Next we have a large group of guns that are dimensionally similar to the PM9 but thinner, often lighter, and thus can be more easily carried in tight pockets or some rear pockets.

KelTec P3AT - I had this gun and sold it. This class of gun is all the rage and there are many similar variants from Ruger, S&W, Taurus, and others. They kick and I'd rather have a Sig P238 in .380 for shootability or the Rohrbaugh R9s in 9mm for more power. But these KelTec class guns are a lot cheaper, in every sense of the word.

Sig P238 - A very shootable pocket gun, possibly the best in that criteria though the Kahr is about as good. You will enjoy shooting this gun. A lot. So will your spouse. That will make you both deadly with it. The only thing is that some don't like the single action type; but that is part of what makes it such a shooter.

Rohrbaugh R9s - I don't yet own one but soon will. I understand it has snappy recoil. It is the smallest 9mm that exits.

Next class is the really small guns that are basically the .22s, 25s, and the Seecamps. Stay away from these unless you really need this size. The .32 Seecamp is the only one to consider.

I strongly suggest you and your spouse shoot a Sig P238 and a Kahr PM9 before you buy anything. I think those are your best options.
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Old November 13, 2010, 07:21 AM   #73
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There is one other gun that splits the KelTec and Seecamp classes. That gun is the Micro Desert Eagle in .380. I own this gun and it pretty much sucks to shoot. I will keep it because it fits in some back pockets that the Keltec/P238/Rohrbaugh won't fit in because it is shorter.

It is however thicker than the Seecamps. I understand the Seecamp .380 kicks even worse than the MDE; ergo, I want no part of it and will hang onto my Seecamp .32 for that über small pocket role.
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Old November 13, 2010, 07:31 AM   #74
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Next time try a seecamp 32. for a mouse gun .Pay the extra $$$$. I LIKE THE FEEL OF STEEL .
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Old November 13, 2010, 08:10 AM   #75
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I understand the Seecamp .380 kicks even worse than the MDE; ergo, I want no part of it and will hang onto my Seecamp .32 for that über small pocket role.
Since the Seecamp .380 is the same size and virtually the same weight as the Seecamp .32, you have got to be right about it having far heavier recoil.

Last edited by LanceOregon; November 13, 2010 at 06:04 PM.
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