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Old November 9, 2010, 09:29 PM   #26
IMTHDUKE
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Trust me....you don't want your wife shooting this mousegun....it does hurt



I would only shoot mine in a crisis situation.

I perfer this one....


OR.....

My wife....likes this piece of jewerly that shoots...
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Old November 10, 2010, 12:24 AM   #27
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Come on guys, a 9mm or a 357 Sig or a 40 cal or a 38 special and especially a 45acp are NOT "mouse guns."

(I hope you were kidding!)

"A mousegun is most often considered a category of small revolver, or semi-automatic handgun intended for self defense. Typically such small pistols are of .380 ACP (9mm Short) caliber or less, with .32 ACP and .22 Long Rifle calibers also being common. The term is used to describe a class of small handguns." Wikipedia.

IMO the 32acp is a little less in power but kicks way, way less than a 380acp. Those of us with carpal tunnel can appreciate that, even tho in a real shooting carpal tunnel would go unnoticed momentarily. Thats why I like my Beretta Tomcat with the pop up barrel!
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Old November 10, 2010, 12:32 AM   #28
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Elsie Pea!!!

Reasonably priced
100% reliable (AT least mine has been, along with a lot more people who post on this forum)
Light weight and convenient, easily concealed.
For SD, 380 much better than 25 or 32. Also much better than it's detractors claim.
LCP, the gun you can carry when you can't carry a gun!
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Old November 10, 2010, 12:33 AM   #29
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I spoke with a guy today but had to jet quick. my wife had the dentist and I had the two babies(I know comical). one got fussy, but the info I got is strictly from one persons opinion:

he said the .380 isn't that much worse to shoot. he said the difference in caliber is a big difference. I dont doubt the opinions here. I have always just leaned towards the stronger caliber. I haven't had issues yet. people were saying that about the .44 henry bigboy and its smooth as can be. I had to leave anyways, but he had a used .32 seecamp. I am not going to go used. it might be my loss, but I don't want to take the chance there was a reason why this guy got rid of his firearm. he did have a ruger lcr(I think thats right). weighed less obviously cuz not stainless. I want the stainless I have decided.

ok my luck has been bad(I just had a thread where I tried to buy a .454 2.5" barrel with no luck due to availability). I walked in there today to buy a weapon and same thing. I need to pay 1100+ for the .380 after FFL, shipping, 1099dollars, etc and its all online). is the seecamp the best? I will buy the seecamp if it is without a seconds hesitation(its going in the Christmas stocking)

//also guyz: if I buy this weapon under my name, can my wife CCW it when she gets her permit even though technically its mine? please let me know if you have the answer to this.

I know opinions vary, but these guys(seecamp) have had this mousegun since early 80's and it seems reliable. if its the best I want it and will purchase online with said details above.

2nd option. its very new firearm dealer said: stainless steel, slightly bigger than seecamp, desert eagle mousegun made by the desert eagle people: brand new $449 since its 80dollars off for the new special and its a .380. this firearm looked nice and felt nice and still CCWs very easily. I just am so used to revolvers I dont want to get the wrong semi mousegun. its a tough choice. I wouldve probably had gone with the desert eagle but I had to leave(Jr was getting too restless)! thats why I dont know the name of exact firearm. when I google it it pops up but then says kahr(same pix as above). that looks nice too.

lastly, he wanted to sell me the amer eagle ammo and then seperate hollowpoints for the .380 desert eagle mouse. I didnt like when he eluded to the hollows not feeding correctly. he was saying 50rds of the cheap ammo will set it off running. is this info true?? the way I feel is I am getting the .380 if its same size and higher caliber. I'll spend the money. also, if my wife has to shoot it I want to make sure its more powerful rounds. trust me if she ever had to use this bellygun it would be very close distance so she can handle a little pain to save her skin. honestly, we have the money but we dont have the money if you know what I mean. I really wish it wasnt so complicated. I wanted to just walkin, buy a seecamp, pay 500bucks, and come back in two days to pick up when it arrived. should I trust the desert eagle .380? reliability and nonfunctional problems is a huge issue before I make a purchase(thats why I dont do used weapons)
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Old November 10, 2010, 12:44 AM   #30
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that colt mustang above is nice

edit- I found a pix of the desert:

Micro Desert Eagle .380 pocket pistol from Magnum Research
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Old November 10, 2010, 06:52 AM   #31
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choices

About the comfort thing - the recoil difference between the .380 and the .32ACP.
Who is gonna be shooting this thing?
Practice with a little gun is very important. You might be OK with the heavier recoil of the .380 but how about the gal?
The .32ACP.....that's where the advice has been going.
Pete
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Old November 10, 2010, 07:16 AM   #32
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500,000 in sales in less than three years... for good reasons... Why resist?
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Old November 10, 2010, 08:07 AM   #33
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I'm also a fan of the LCP, reliable and I find it's ergonomics fit me well (long, somewhat thin fingers). Probably wouldn't work so well for a guy with big meathook hands.

I have friction tape on the grip. No extension. Considered the Crimson Trace add-on but honestly don't think it's necessary given the anticipated engagement distance.

Still trying different ammunition, haven't settled on anything yet. DoubleTap 95gr JHP is what I keep it loaded with right now. It'll eat them with mustard and relish; but I'm not convinced about the round's potency.

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Old November 10, 2010, 08:40 AM   #34
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I carried a Colt 1908 .25 for years and liked it very much. However I have moved to the LCP and have not feelings bad about that. I have suffered through many discussions of only idiots carrying the 25 but still believe that a 25 in a desperate situation is a good choice. It is small and to an attacker is a gun, that fires, at him. Spare me the "only carry a 45 or such" and take advantage of the small (that is the first choice, right?) hidden pistol.
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Old November 10, 2010, 10:35 AM   #35
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yes it was the ruger lcp I saw yesterday. the weight was a plus to me. I did like it a lot- I guess I just haven't evolved past my stainless steel love yet. the seecamp is great, its handcrafted, all stainless except grips, and a nice piece. that being said I don't think I am willing to pay @ least $500+ extra basically just on a premium. The gun is about $500 but people pay $1100 not counting FFL, shipping, and tax. I dont mind the extra fees, but the premium is killin me. I think the ruger, seecamp, and micro desert eagle are oranges to oranges. the seecamp might be worth it to get big bucks someday at auction or someway else depending on the scenarios, but we plan on carrying this as CCW.

I have a seecamp if I choose if I call by tomorrow for $1,049(the guy took pity on my heart/lol/he dropped the price 50bucks). thats base besides the other fees. I might do that, but better chance I hit the store today or tomorrow and grab the ruger lcp or micro desert. I mustve mixed up the ruger lcp in my earlier post with the little revolver he showed me also.

any seecamp lovers out there that think I should do the seecamp .380 before its too late?

any people that think I am nutz to pay the 500 something dollars and extra for the seecamp?
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Old November 10, 2010, 10:52 AM   #36
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I, for one, think you're nuts to pay $1,000+ for the Seecamp.

I say get the LCP if you like it, and spend the money you saved on ammo, a couple extra mags, a pocket holster, and range time.

By the way, once you get a pocket holster, I suggest that whever you re-holster, take the holster out of your pocket, put the gun in, and then put the entire bundle back in your pocket. It's safer than trying to stuff the pistol into your pocket and have it get into the holster as well.

The basic pocket holster from Blackhawk! with the rubber ring is pretty decent, although there are a fair number of good pocket holsters out there to choose from.

Last note, I would put at least 100 rounds through it before you decide to carry it as your SD option. Make sure the ammo you want to carry feeds well in your particular copy and that the magazines are reliable. Better to have those infancy failures (which are rare but do happen with any product) happen at the range than when you need it. Run your misfire/misfeed drills and get comfortable with the weapon. And be safe!
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Old November 10, 2010, 11:51 AM   #37
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Smallest semi-auto would probably be the Kel-Tec P-32. 7+1 and 10 oz fully loaded. The P3AT is about 1.5 oz heavier loaded and a millimeter thicker but 1 less round. Personally, the P-32 has zero kick. The P3AT has a little kick but nothing unmanageable. The P-32 is very dependable with the standard 7 round mag. 10 rounders are...well...not ready for prime time if you ask me.

Smallest revolver would go to the NAA Mini revolvers. That's something I carry when I can't carry a gun.

Just keep in mind - both firearms are of the shoot and run in the other direction types of guns.



Quote:
therealdeal
smallest mousegun(within reason) for purchase
is the seecamp the mousegun of choice for reliability?? is there a smaller mousegun semi we can buy?? would really appreciate any info- I deal with mostly revolvers but want a mousegun for my wife(just an excuse to buy it- it will be mine too). I heard the seecamp comes in a .380 too. its the same size right? I don't mind the extra kick to it if there is one. I am leaning towards a seecamp but this reason is mainly because I have little knowledge of the mouseguns
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Old November 10, 2010, 12:05 PM   #38
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Ever check out the Kahr PM9?

Just picked one up, and its flawless out of the box.
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Old November 10, 2010, 01:44 PM   #39
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Here's a side by side photo of the Seecamp, LCP, Desert Eagle and the Sig P238. The Sig is a new clone of the Colt Mustang, so it's SA.

I won't post the photo direct due to copyright but here's the link: http://is.gd/gUskH

I own a LCP, as well as a Beretta 921 in .22lr and a Walther PPK/S in .380. The LCP is fine as a pocket ccw, but if I wanted something smaller I'd defiinitely get the Seecamp, but only in a .32. They are half the price of the .380 version and anyone I've spoken to with the .380 says it's brutal. Buyer beware on that one.
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Old November 10, 2010, 04:33 PM   #40
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I can have any gun I want. My wife and I carry Keltec P32s. They are the Bic pen of carry guns.
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Old November 10, 2010, 04:42 PM   #41
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Quote:
any people that think I am nutz to pay the 500 something dollars and extra for the seecamp?
I think it's crazy to pay $500 more for a 380 than a Seecamp .32 My LWS32 is loaded with 60gr Fiocchi SJHPs that chrono 1000fps. I wouldn't think of trading it for a .380. However if I were shopping today I think I'd buy a LCP.
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Old November 10, 2010, 04:58 PM   #42
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How small do you need?
How about a Walther PPK/S? Worth a look anyway.
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Old November 10, 2010, 05:03 PM   #43
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mine is a NAA .22 Magnum with (longer) 5 1/8 " barrel.
The performance is pretty good and the risks of faliure to fire (rimfire cartridge) are eliminated due to the fact that it's a revolver. I carry it in an NAA IWB holster and don't feel it. And when I need it, I get a hell of performance an penetration form a gun lighter than my wallet....

No other mousegun caliber penetrates so well...

if it ought to be a semiauto, I'd use one of my two Glock 26s, which I also carry a lot. I want penetration and no rimfire in a semiauto, so it's 9x19mm. And being there I see and feel no big difference between a Kahr etc and a Glock 26. They are equally always there....
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Old November 10, 2010, 05:14 PM   #44
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Quote:
No other mousegun caliber penetrates so well...
I beg to differ according to Brass fetcher the best 22mag load tested penatrated 14.5"
http://brassfetcher.com/index_files/Page1504.htm
while the 32 acp load I carry exited the 16" block
http://brassfetcher.com/index_files/Page820.htm
and both the 380 loads here went past 16"
http://www.brassfetcher.com/95gr%20F...g%20test).html
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Old November 10, 2010, 05:16 PM   #45
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Ruger LCP .380. How much smaller do you need with a decent caliber?

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Old November 10, 2010, 05:55 PM   #46
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I am gonna hop right on Bill's wagon. I have jframes, a pf9, p3at, ppk, naa in lr and wmr, colt junior, p11, etc. So yes options galore. But a keltec p32 is in my front right pocket seven days a week. I usually have something elsse iwb that has more oomph, but my minimum is the p32 in a modified uncle mike's number one pocket holster. I cut the stabilizer flap to hold a spare mag. Makes the whole package look just like a wallet, weighs about 14-15oz all told and gives me 15 rounds of .32acp. I feel well protected and nothing could be easier to carry.

I love the p32 so much I just purchased a second one in hard chrome. It has become my dedicated edc and for only $240 (before tax). To me it is more reliable, accurate and generally easier to shoot than the small. 380's, not to mention ridiculously slim and lightweight. I HIGHLY recommend them.
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Old November 10, 2010, 06:54 PM   #47
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in the what its worth dept...
depending on who was shooting it, either you or her..
i'd at least check the handgun database so you can compare
size, capacity, recoil factor...

I had a pf-9, and while it carried nice, it was not a pistol that you would choose to shoot much at the range..
felt recoil 9+lbs..

It got replaced with a kahr k9, recoil 4.5lbs..
much more enjoyable to shoot, although heavier, due to stainless..a trade I can live with,

while it works for me, the missus has a hard time racking the slide on it..

I'm looking at a bersa 380 for her, recoil 3.5 lbs..and she can rack slide no problems..

I look at it this way, while mouseguns, you'll still need to be well used to it and take it out to fire it, so the better manners it has, the longer you'll practice with it..

this is based on a full size service pistol having a felt recoil of 4 lbs..
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Old November 10, 2010, 08:08 PM   #48
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Quote:
How much smaller do you need with a decent caliber?
While not smaller, its only a little bigger, and has replaced my LCP for the same duty. 10+ rounds of 9mm +P+ too.



I tried to like the LCP, and gave it a good try, but it just doesnt do anything better than my Seecamps do.
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Old November 10, 2010, 10:40 PM   #49
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Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.
LARRY,

your signature quote comes from one of my favorites shows(or at least thats where I heard it first as a kid not even a teen yet): Star Trek - Scotty was in command @ the time.

there is so much good advice and awesome firearms here I have never heard of. $240 - I need to consider that bill & engineer

I am touching base to be honest. I had Every Intention on buying a mousegun today. the wife is taking her safety course monday since in virginia you must do that if you aren't ex-military & have never had a permit to carry concealed. after that in a month her CCW will be in the mailbox. $80 total counting the class since the class was only $30 due to the fact I bought a gun from the fellas(their policy - its $60 just to show up otherwise).

My wife was on to me and it rubs me the wrong way but oh well. she was Upset last yr when I bought two puppies for her fall bday(I figured 2 was better than one since they keep each other company - I Will Never hear the end of it even with my watchdog defense). She told me I was in deep s&*% if I gave her a gun for Christmas(the stocking idea is out the window). I did explain one should not complain about gifts- thats not what giving is supposed to be like. anyways, she wasn't even too big on the carryconcealed thing, but I got her to do it(in virginia it isn't hard and the class lasts a lifetime; after that you just renew CCWthru the mail for $50 every 5yrs). it makes sense since this is a lifetime decision in my mind, she is cool with it, and now we don't have to worry about a mistake when she is in possession of my handgun in the car or something someday as only one example. It gave me one more excuse for a new toy: smith&wesson 649 ss revolver (I am not sure what the 'ss' means?). its a 2 1/8" barrel. we got a ruger and a taurus(ccw) already, so I had to pass on the ruger sp101 and take this opportunity to get the S&W!! my wife said she preferred a revolver- she said that twice(and the slide might be too much for her 5" self), so I thought it prudent to respect her on that: she can have my taurus- LMAO. I got myself a new CCW and also have my 'NY reload' too when I want to doublefist
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Old November 10, 2010, 10:51 PM   #50
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I know its a S&W 649 but on the paperwork it says 'ss' too so I must be missing something. also which I found interesting: its the only one out of our now 5 firearms where I couldn't see any serial# (it must be hidden somewhere I guess). I did register it online @

http://www.proregister.com/smith&wesson

the serial# was on the paperwork they gave me that I saved

*this new baby was made in my 'home' state: massachusetts(springfield). I grew up in a commonwealth, live in a commonwealth, and the only other commonwealth in the USA is the state where my two siblings and parents moved from when mom was pregnant with me: pennsylvania

**edited for picture**
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