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Old November 25, 2010, 08:06 AM   #1
458winshooter
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Sling didn't help

I missed the Sept CMP match but made it to the Oct match.I was really looking forward to it cause I was using a sling for the first time.I thought it would really help steady the rifle or at least it seemed to when I practiced with it.Well to make the long story short I did a great disservice to my old K98k by shooting that poorly.What did I do that seemed to cause my shots to be low?Was it the sling or did I pick up a bad habit without realizing it?Can an improperly adjusted sling cause this?Any help would be appreciated.
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Old November 25, 2010, 08:32 AM   #2
4EVERM-14
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Using the sling to it's potential takes a little practice. When adjusted correctly the rifle lays naturally on target without the shooter actually having to hold it. Getting the right tension comes from doing it over and over. When it's right you'll feel it. And you'll also know when it's wrong. Kinesthetics.
In your case it's probable that the sling was either to loose or to low on the arm.
The CMP offers videos from the AMU which shows great views of the 1907 sling. I'm sure the service rifle shooters will be glad to assist in getting the technique down.
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Old November 25, 2010, 09:00 AM   #3
Archer 9505
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1907 Sling

The Army Marksmanship Team has a sling tutorial. The Army Service rifle team in addition to competing, have the training mission for the Army's Squad Designated Marksman Program. I think that is cool; taking NRA and CMP competitive experience and bringing it back to the benefit of men going into combat, not a new story for sure.

http://www.usaac.army.mil/amu/Servic...vicerifle.html

Post Script: If you look around their site there are some other videos including a demonstration of the Infantry Trophy Team. Their standard of fire is 40 aimed shots in 50 seconds on target at 600 yards. Pretty good shooting!
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Old November 25, 2010, 09:59 AM   #4
kraigwy
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Slings do work if properly adjusted. You said your shots are going low but you didn't say what position. I'm going to assume its the prone position and address that. Its the position that I think is causing the problem

What normally causes one to shoot slow in the prone position is the none shooting hand slipping forward. That's why with Match Rifles and ISU/NRA Small bore you see people using sling stops, a device adjusted to the position that your non shooting hand rest against.

Of course we cant use them with the service rifle or GSM Vintage rifles so we have to adapt.

Get a good position. Your left (if right handed) elbow is directly under the rifle. Get lined up with a good point of aim and tighten the sling, as high on the upper arm as possible. It should be tight but not to the point you are cutting off circulation to the arm, or so tight that your left wrist is all crunched up. In getting a POA (point of aim) you get windage by adjusting your hips (and therefor body) left or right. To get elevation you move your non shooting hand up and down the stock. You loose elevation if your hand slips forward during shooting.

So what we need is a method to keep the hand from slipping. Gripping the stock works to a point but thats not a good idea. The stock should rest on the palm of the hand without much pressure. The sling works but if you can't do it without it slipping then we need a artificial means. Thats why you see most shooting gloves now days with rubber pads that help keep the stock from sliding in you hand. Another method is Firm Grip, a stick spray applied to the glove, forearm or both. That works.

To see what you are doing, try lots of dry firing. Get a good POA & Sight Alignment. Close your eyes and let the hammer fall (on an empty chamber). Open your eyes without disturbing the rifle and see where the sights are lined up. Adjust you position until you can maintains a proper point of aim after the hammer falls. This includes the support arm (non shooting arm). Keep doing this until you can dry fire with closed eyes without disturbing the POA.

Any positions are best gain by the aid of a good coach. If possible try to attend a NRA HP Clinic or CMP GSM Vintage Rifle Clinic. Most older shooter will be more then willing to help you along. Even with the coach, nothing beats hours of dry firing to help your position and shooting.

Don't forget the score/data book, use it in dry firing as well as actual practice and match firing. That is one of the most neglected tools used in competition. Use it, record every change you make, be it ammo, position, conditions, etc.

CMP has some great training aids, the USAMU Service Rifle Guide is the best (for $6.95 its a bargain), get one, read it, and practice, and dry fire. Still if possible attend a HP or GSM Clinic.
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Old November 25, 2010, 01:33 PM   #5
458winshooter
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Added info

It was for prone,they do not allow use of a sling for standing at this range.I hope to get to another clinic but there are no others until March.I shot a clinic and my first match without a sling.I am making changes one at a time so I can see what differences they make.This has been a setback or at least not a step foreward.I was going to try a glove next or a shooting jacket.I will checkout the book you suggest Kraigy thanks.
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Old November 25, 2010, 04:36 PM   #6
kraigwy
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Maybe this will help explain what I was talking about,

The Prone Position:

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Old November 26, 2010, 07:52 AM   #7
odessastraight
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A properly fitted and used rifle shooting sling is known to improve scores. CMP sanctioned matches sometimes include a string of rapid fire from the sitting/kneeling position along with firing from the prone position. In the standing position the sling must be removed or adjusted to the "parade" position (tight) so it provides no support. Your sling should be a shooting sling and not just a carry strap as used for hunting. Either a leather/synthetic 1907 sling or a G.I. web sling works fine.

I'm thinking there was some major malfunction of either the sling set-up or your technique for using it for your scores to be less than when you don't use a sling.
Sometimes I shoot a K98 Mauser in CMP matches, too and I know the side mounted front sling swivel somewhat complicates use of a properly adjusted shooting sling.

Like has been written above, you must consistently keep your forward hand in the same place on the stock and not let it slide forward (or move back).

Using the sling was just new to you and you'll realize what was wrong in that match with a little more experience shooting with it.. I'm confident that with a bit more dry fire practice and a few more matches your scores will significantly improve with the use of a shooting sling.
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Old November 26, 2010, 09:23 AM   #8
kraigwy
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Quote:
Sometimes I shoot a K98 Mauser in CMP matches, too and I know the side mounted front sling swivel somewhat complicates use of a properly adjusted shooting sling.
CMP Rule 6.3.6 (7) Rifles that were issued with side mounted front sling swivels may be retrofitted with sling swivels of the military type that are positioned in the 6 o'clock location, relative to its original sling swivel location.
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