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Old December 9, 2010, 10:21 PM   #101
clayman
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If you have ever had urban/dwelling combat experience, The last thing you want is to have 20 inches of gun going around a corner before you do. Too easy for the other guy to grab. Even short long guns are too hard to swing in a narrow hallway. All considered, the Tarus Judge, held close to the body, with the ability to shoot the 3" .410 load is my choice. The first three rounds are either TTT or the Winchester Supreme Elite round. Twelve plated BB'S and three plated cylinder projectiles in one round. The last two rounds, If you need them, are .410 Hollow Pointed deer slugs. Finally, even empty, you have a great bludgeon.

The opponents will only be between 3-9 feet apart.

Here's hoping you never have to be in this situation!
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Old December 10, 2010, 06:35 AM   #102
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clayman -

I'd love to read any urban combat stories involving a Judge, please post them.
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Old December 10, 2010, 05:25 PM   #103
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Quote:
The last thing you want is to have 20 inches of gun going around a corner before you do.
HD isnt hunt and search, in my house a bad guy has to come down a hallway to get to the bedrooms, he will come to me.

Let em come to you, dont go hunting, it may end up bad for you. HD is having a plan and the ability to execute it without harming yourself or family members. Go hunting and the bg will wait for you to come to him....
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Old December 10, 2010, 10:19 PM   #104
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870 Express
18.5 inch barrel w/ cylinder bore choke
6 + 1
Knox Spec Ops Stock
Surefire Forend w/ 200 lumen head
4 shot sidesaddle
Federal 00 8 pellet Tactical LE shotshell /w flite control wad

Last edited by swinokur; December 12, 2010 at 09:18 PM.
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Old December 11, 2010, 12:42 AM   #105
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Hi Spacecoast,

The gun is fairly new and at $550, it isn't in many hands as yet. Probably more bad guys have been taken out with a Louisville Slugger. So I'll ask my chief if we can get any stats on the judge.

Unlesss my kids are sleeping in our bedroom, Their safe being, is enough to get me on the move. The best defence is an offence.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4H5GepjBRsM
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Old December 12, 2010, 09:15 PM   #106
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Just got a Mossberg 500 Persuader 12g 7+1 today.

Keeping it hidden in my room with 00 buck rounds right next to it.

It's sitting right next to my Mini-14 so if the intruder(s) is/are already coming up the steps and I didn't have time to load my shotgun, I'd grab that with a 20 round mag already loaded with HP.

Otherwise I'd be sitting at the top of the steps ready to protect my family with my 500 and the Mini slung around my shoulder. Wouldn't have to worry about overpenetration because the worst it could do from that angle is demolish a part of the floor.
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Old December 12, 2010, 09:30 PM   #107
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Remington 870 Express Magnum
00 Buck
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Old December 12, 2010, 09:42 PM   #108
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Mossberg 500 Special Purpose 8+1 or 12 + 1 using my secret ammo.
Heat shield, ghost ring sights, and soon to have a SureFire miniature sun foregrip. Those things are sooooooo bright!!!!


I really want this though.
http://www.mossberg.com/images/Mossb.../New/50591.jpg

The ammo I use is a type of Minishell that a local around here hand loads. Instead of using a large wad, he uses a really thin polymer wad, and they still have a full load of powder and lead, but are only 1 1/4'' long or so.
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Old December 12, 2010, 10:05 PM   #109
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I have an old school 1963 Ithica 12 guage pump that I need to practice with and learn how to effectively slam fire.... Not wanting to learn how to slam fire so much for the home protection part of things as much as it's simply something that I'd like to experience and familiarize myself with.

Roach
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Old December 12, 2010, 10:13 PM   #110
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870 with Surefire foreend light, 00 Buck.
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Old December 12, 2010, 10:55 PM   #111
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Quote:
HD isnt hunt and search, in my house a bad guy has to come down a hallway to get to the bedrooms, he will come to me.
In almost all situations you should remain in your safe room. There is rarely a reason to hunt down the intruder. But there may be a time or situation where you must move around the house. One would be a family member could be in danger in another part of the house.

90 to 99% of the time there is no reason to try to clear the house but things don't always work out according to the way statistics say they should
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Old December 13, 2010, 09:35 AM   #112
Dave McC
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Roach, slam firing is more show than a useful technique. Accuracy's out the window when you do it.

I've slammed a few different shotguns, including 37s. No real advantage exists over an interruptor equipped shotgun like and 870, 500 etc.

Go try it. After a time or two, you'll likely never do it again.
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Old December 13, 2010, 09:44 AM   #113
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Smith & Wesson 3000 pump 12 gauge.

Former police gun. Was practically new when I bought it with only a very light rack rub on the stock and on the parkerizing on the muzzle.

Regarding slam firing, I agree with Dave 100%. When that front hand starts moving back and forth, most people with either throw their shot WAY high or into the ground at their feet.

It's VERY difficult to keep the muzzle on target when slam firing. I've tried it with my Ithaca 37, and it's not been a resounding success.
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Old December 13, 2010, 11:37 AM   #114
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AR-15 first but then a Winch. 1300 with tac load slugs. After than my NAA Mini 22S and a frying pan.
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Old December 13, 2010, 11:42 AM   #115
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silvercorvette

+1

SHTF is my wife on the phone to 911 on the side of the bed away from the door with her gun and me next to her pointing a Benelli M3 at the door. Nothing in the house I can't replace except us.
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Old December 13, 2010, 01:46 PM   #116
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clayman -

Hope you don't have to face that situation either. You may want to check this out - http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot41.htm

Quote:
Lessons learned:
1. Jack bought this pistol for snakes and it looks like a fine tool for that job.

2. Birdshot, in any gauge, is for little birds.

3. Buckshot out of a .410 does not penetrate enough to be an effective personal defense load.

4. The rifled slug was also a disappointment and did not have enough weight or power or penetration to be effective as a defense load.

5. The .45 Long Colt loads had plenty of penetration and would be the preferred defense load for this pistol.]
Personally, I'd much rather have a 12 gauge/00. If I was convinced, as you are that I needed a handgun for primary defense I'd choose .45 ACP, but if I was constrained to using a Judge it would be loaded with .45 Colt.
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Old December 13, 2010, 04:56 PM   #117
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Quote:
and a frying pan
Semi auto?

I recall a guy got hit with one of them, just about tore his head off.

HD is a fimily thing, get all involved or you may end up with problems.
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Old December 13, 2010, 05:37 PM   #118
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Hey Spacecoast,

Thanks for the link. For the time being, I'll revert to my Glock with 16 Hydroshocks In the mag.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OoWj38Ey2aE
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Old December 13, 2010, 07:04 PM   #119
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Quote:
Smith & Wesson 3000 pump 12 gauge.

Former police gun. Was practically new when I bought it with only a very light rack rub on the stock and on the parkerizing on the muzzle.

I had one of these years ago and it's one of those guns I've always regretted selling. Made by Howa in Japan, I believe. Though it looks an awful lot like a Remington Model 870 and has a steel receiver, in an old police journal, from an article entitled "Riot Gun Shoot-out", Sgt. Gary Paul Johnson reported, "...If the Remington model 870 has one shortcoming, it has to be the stoppage prone situation resulting from a cartridge falling back into the carrier when not loaded completely into the magazine tube. Loading in a hurry can provoke just such a situation. It can also happen with worn weapons. If the stuck round is the first into the tube, there is no problem, as the action can be cycled to clear and chamber it. It becomes more critical, however, with the second or third round, due to the increasing magazine spring pressure, and if it's the fourth round, as is most likely, the action cannot be cycled in the normal manner, and there is a stoppage. This condition can also occur in short stroking the action, or not bringing the fore-end fully and sharply to the rear, especially with a damaged round. Stoppages are particularly dangerous in police work, because when an officer cycles his shotgun, it is because he needs it at that moment. It is not that this stoppage cannot be quickly cleared, because it can by placing the butt on a firm surface and sharply pulling the fore-arm back with both hands. Or if this fails, by slamming the butt down, using the same hold. In a gunfight, however, seconds are precious. Mr. Madden (Smith&Wesson's Eastern Region Sales Manager at the time) explained that this problem has been engineered out of the Model 3000, and that any round so slipping could be easily and quickly cycled through the action.
"Anxious to compare the two guns, I took the Smith&Wesson Model 3000 to the range along with a near new Remington 870...I loaded the Remington with four rounds, and, with difficulty, I artificially produced the stoppage condition described. The action could not be worked normally, and it took both hands on the fore-end with the butt placed on the floor to clear and cycle the action. The Smith&Wesson Model 3000 was then loaded with four rounds and, with difficulty, I artificially created the same stoppage. Even with the full magazine, the Smith&Wesson cycled in the normal manner, clearing and chambering the 'jammed' round with ease.
"Normally, such occurences are rare, and with new guns and good ammo, I had to work at creating them. While I do not fear it happening to me in the line of duty, I would dread for it to occur to an officer unfamiliar with the problem, unless he or she was using the Model 3000-but then there really would be no problem..."
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Old December 13, 2010, 07:20 PM   #120
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The new flexitab carrier on newer 870's will allow you to cycle the action even with a shell trapped on the carrier. You have to cycle the action very hard against the jam but the small tab cutout on the carrier allows the carrier to deflect down, and cycle the round.

There are several parts that need to be changed to install the flexitab carrier in your shotgun if you want it.
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Old December 13, 2010, 07:33 PM   #121
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I got 3, trained german shepards the smallest being 100 pounds and the largest being 140. I would imagine if there was anything left after they were done with someone the ol 870 express would make short work of em.
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Old December 13, 2010, 09:44 PM   #122
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"Roach, slam firing is more show than a useful technique. Accuracy's out the window when you do it.

I've slammed a few different shotguns, including 37s. No real advantage exists over an interruptor equipped shotgun like and 870, 500 etc.

Go try it. After a time or two, you'll likely never do it again.
"

Dave, I'm aware of what you're saying so far as there being no real advantage to the slam firing but I do see an advantage in familiarizing myself with the weapon and knowing how it operates under a variety of conditions. It seems like it would loose it's appeal fairly quick for sure but since it's something that I've yet to experience you bet your last bullet that I'm going to do just that when I get an opportunity. I'm sure it's no big deal but you know us men. We're going to do it simply because we can.

Roach
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Old December 13, 2010, 10:41 PM   #123
dannyb
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HD suite


Our alarm system: 14 lbs of yappy rat terrier




Top Row amplified muffs, S&W Model 19 4" (mine), S&W Model 10 2.5" (hers), tactical light

Middle: New Haven 600 AT (Mossberg 500) 12 GA, 20" chopper barrel (mine)

Bottom: Mossberg 835 with hard to find 18.5" barrel (hers)

If dog goes off, I put on muffs, take Model 19 and light, open BR door, check out to top of stairs; she gets Model 10, goes to closet and gets shotguns.

False alarm: I pet dog, we put away firearms, go back to bed.
Real thing: Retreat to bedroom, take my shotgun from wife, we hit monitored alarm (not the dog) and hunker down until help comes.
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Old December 14, 2010, 07:00 PM   #124
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I can join ya"ll now, I just got my 870P today.
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Old December 14, 2010, 08:45 PM   #125
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dannyb,

+1 on the amped muffs. I gotta get some.
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