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Old November 4, 2010, 09:53 PM   #1
therealdeal
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gift firearm to father

hello,

I have seen these threads before but haven't really paid that much attention because it never pertained to me. I am considering buying my father a revolver for SD&HD but mainly protection while he hikes(he is retired and hikes long distances through states+wildernesses//he owns no firearm). He is a resident in MA and I am a resident in VA. Can I buy a gift revolver for him and bring it to him in MA when we visit? Obviously once its in his home its his duty to make sure its legal to pack it outside the property. Also I already own some firearms, so if its easier can I just give him one that I already own that I never planned on giving away in the first place??
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Old November 4, 2010, 09:57 PM   #2
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thank you also+my dad has never been arrested&is a vietnam veteran
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Old November 5, 2010, 08:07 AM   #3
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You may want to post this in the Law and Legal Rights forum here. http://thefiringline.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=41
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Old November 5, 2010, 08:45 AM   #4
carguychris
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Can I buy a gift revolver for him and bring it to him in MA when we visit?... Also I already own some firearms, so if its easier can I just give him one that I already own that I never planned on giving away in the first place??
Either way, the revolver needs to be legally transfered to him through an FFL. FTF handgun transfers across state lines are a Big No-No.

Also, before you ask, a MA FFL cannot sell you a handgun directly while you're visiting; it would have to go through a FFL in your home state.

I would suggest finding a FFL in his area and buying him a gift certificate.
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Old November 5, 2010, 09:13 AM   #5
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This question comes up occasionally.

If I understand you, you want to buy your father a handgun in your home state, then physically transport it into Massachussets to give it to him?

First, some people will say you can't buy a gun for him because it violates the "straw purchase" concept on the 4473. But if I remember, on the back of 4473 there is an exception for gifting a weapon. I don't remember exactly how its worded, but I think you'd be ok.

Second, aren't the gun laws in Mass way different than in civilized countries? That's the big problem. Make sure that your father is legally allowed to own a/the handgun up there in the People's Republic. Surely they have a DOJ or some such.

Third, if all the above are ok, I'd be very sure about the various laws for transporting firearms into the state. Different states have different laws, and communist states are the worst.
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Old November 5, 2010, 09:44 AM   #6
therealdeal
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yes kyjim this belongs in legal. I thought of that about 4 seconds after starting the thread. I don't think I can move it. thanx for advice too guys. Yes, I vaguely remember gifting being ok, so I think the straw purchase thing could be covered but I could give him an existing revolver in my collection if it helped. I would like to purchase in VA definately unless we can somehow go together in MA.
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Old November 5, 2010, 11:01 AM   #7
carguychris
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Quote:
I would like to purchase in VA definately unless we can somehow go together in MA.
If this is the case, you either must ship it to a FFL in MA yourself, have your FFL ship and transfer it to a FFL in MA, or transport it to MA personally and accompany your father to a friendly FFL to accomplish the transfer. However, there are several items of caution.

First, it's my understanding that the handgun must either be on the MA Approved List or be C&R eligible for the transfer to be legal, but I'm not sure. Second, not all FFLs accept shipments from unfamiliar nonlicensees; this is a private business decision to avoid potential legal hassles if the shipper's ID is not legit, there is no shipper ID, or the gun is stolen or illegally modified. However, since you will have to ship the gun Next Day Air, it will probably be cheaper to do a FFL-to-FFL transfer anyway. Third, I'm totally unfamiliar with MA law as it relates to transporting a handgun through the state and delivering it to a FFL; I'm not sure this is allowable under state law.

If you're intending to attempt any of these options, I suggest calling the destination FFL to make sure this is all legit under MA law.

Bottom line: I still think it will be far easier to give your dad a gift certificate.
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Old November 5, 2010, 03:42 PM   #8
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Just an idea but you can buy him online and have it shipped to an FFL dealer close to him in the state he lives him. Then when you visit. Say you want to see a shop or something and take him along so it's a surprised. I plan on doing that for a person or two. That way there are no and, if's , or buts about legal ownership.
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Old November 5, 2010, 06:18 PM   #9
therealdeal
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thanx guys. let be get this straight and sorry if I am being thick here+I am about to do some Mass research but:

are you saying I can't just give him had-to-hand a revolver while he visits?? I could just hand it to him or I could sell it to him for a dollar on paper or I could write and sign paper with him about it being a gift(and zerox a copy) depending on which is better you all think??

I could then have him just drive it home under federal law unloaded in the trunk with no ammo locked up or hold onto it even though its his until I visit next time and give it to him them??

is this plausible. there no paper transfer here I believe
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Old November 5, 2010, 06:36 PM   #10
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Therealdeal,

It is against federal law for a nonlicensed resident of one state to transfer a handgun to a nonlicensed resident of another state. It does not matter whether or not any money changes hands or whether there is any sort of bill of sale involved. If you give him the revolver directly without involving a MA FFL, you are violating federal law. There is no way around this.

Also, I was under the impression that you were visiting him in MA, not that he was visiting you in VA. If he purchases a revolver from a retailer in VA, it cannot be given to him in VA- it must be sent to a FFL in MA and AFAIK it must be on the MA Approved List. Since this transaction will presumably involve paying VA sales tax, and someone will have to pay the cost of shipping and a transfer fee at the destination FFL in MA, IMHO it would not make financial sense. He would be better off ordering the gun from someplace like Bud's or J&G so he would not have to pay sales tax.

Trust me. Gift certificate.
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Old November 5, 2010, 07:40 PM   #11
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Dont fool around and ship it. Buy it where your father is. As suggested get him a gift cert and let him buy it.
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Old November 5, 2010, 08:04 PM   #12
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First, only a holder of a MA License to Carry (LTC) can own or even possess a handgun in the People's Republic of Massachusetts. There are two kinds of LTC. Only an LTC-A Without Restrictions allows concealed carry within the Kommonwealth. Only an LTC-A allows carrying "large capacity" firearms, which includes most autoloading handguns. An LTC-B allows rifle, shotgun and revolver carry inside the licensee's own homeand sometimes his store (depending on the endorsement on the license), but not on any "public way." An FID covers long guns and is easier to obtain. Could this sysem be any more complicated?

MA is a "restrictive may-issue" state. Licenses are issued by the Chief of Police of each town or city. Some towns are gems -- I received my unrestricted LTC-A in less than 40 days. Boston has its own set of crazy rules, and never issues an unrestricted LTC-A.

The transportation of guns across state lines can be federal felony, even if your intentions are good. Possession of a gun in MA without an LTC is a state felony. If your Dad wants a handgun, he will need to get a license first. Then a gift certificate or a transfer between FFLs can be arranged.

I am a retired attorney, but this is not legal advice. It is, however, a word to the wise. Good luck!
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Old November 5, 2010, 11:45 PM   #13
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Quote:
atlantis said;
Second, aren't the gun laws in Mass way different than in civilized countries? That's the big problem.
That's for sure... LOL!
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Old November 5, 2010, 11:54 PM   #14
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This may not be the most personal way but what about giving him the money and "demand" for him to get it with that money?
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Old November 6, 2010, 12:19 AM   #15
therealdeal
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I meant in my last post to suggest giving him one that I already own hand-to-hand while he was in VA legally (post #9)

but reading the replies that doesnt seem to matter much plus it would be rude to have him buck the system with it on his person driving home.

yes we will be visiting but eventually he would be here again too(referring to post answering on guidelines that I would be in mass.

I knew of the class b and a permits and I have heard many times they try and make people get the b's(when they qualify they get one or the other I believe but its not set). pepperspray requires an FID card and I think buying firearms might too but maybe the class b going by reply. yeah the mass thing is throwing this off.

honestly if I cant just give him a gun I already own(not registered because was VA but bought brand new from dealer originally) while he is in VA then I dont think this is going to work for the simple reason that dad isnt going to want to jump thru a bunch of hoops or licenses to have a weapon. I figured I'd get it to his home safe and sound first(legally) and then drop the bomb about not being able to carry it out for hiking without some hoop jumping(trying to take it slow) I grew up in mass. I left @ 29 and was there besides some live free or die time in new hampshire while in college. I didnt carry back then so I didnt mind.

***basically, if someone moves with his family from a gun friendly state he cant bring his weapons to his home once he reaches mass??!***
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Old November 6, 2010, 08:23 AM   #16
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***basically, if someone moves with his family from a gun friendly state he cant bring his weapons to his home once he reaches mass??!***
This seems to be a commonly held misconception. FFL transfers are not required when someone changes his/her state of residency and the gun(s) already belong to him/her.

However, in general, the gun(s) must be legal to own in the destination state, and state registration and licensing requirements must be followed.

IIRC a resident of another state may bring a non-MA-compliant handgun with him/her when moving to MA and may sell it once he/she is there, but I'm not very familiar with MA law firsthand, so I'm not going to swear to this. YMMV.

Mandatory disclaimer: I am not an attorney, nor do I play one on TV. This is not official legal advice.
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Old November 7, 2010, 04:31 PM   #17
Frank Ettin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by therealdeal
...honestly if I cant just give him a gun I already own(not registered because was VA but bought brand new from dealer originally) while he is in VA then I dont think this is going to work for the simple reason that dad isnt going to want to jump thru a bunch of hoops or licenses to have a weapon. I figured I'd get it to his home safe and sound first(legally) and then drop the bomb about not being able to carry it out for hiking without some hoop jumping(trying to take it slow) I grew up in mass...
I'm afraid that under federal law you may not do either. A resident of one State may not just give or transfer a handgun to a resident of another State. The transfer must take place through an FFL in the transferee's State of residence.

You may give your father a handgun BUT --

[1] It must be taken or sent to an FFL in Massachusetts;

[2] It must be transferred to your father by that FFL in a manner that complies with Massachusetts law.

[3] And your father's possession must comply with Massachusetts law.
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Old November 7, 2010, 09:48 PM   #18
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My, isn't it nice to live in a free country?
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