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Old December 14, 2011, 04:22 PM   #1
leadchucker
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Parts guns???

Lets say you buy non-functional, for parts-only, C&R guns, which you have to list as acquisitions in your bound book.

You remove the parts you want or need from the parts guns.

You then sell the leftover bones, which includes the receivers, which you have to list as dispositions in your bound book.

Isn't that sort of thing that the BATFE might consider to be buying for resale, and therefore, conducting business?
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Old December 14, 2011, 08:29 PM   #2
Tidewater_Kid
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I would say it depends. If you do it once in a while I don't think they will say anything, but if you buy guns to part out for profit, that's another story.
If you're worried about, ask your local office.

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Old December 14, 2011, 10:12 PM   #3
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I would say, make sure you don't make a profit, and document you sold a bare receiver. I know several 1911 collectors who pick up lots of "mix and match" guns to rebuild period-correct guns for their collections, and sell the occasional frankengun from their leftover parts. Doesn't seem to get any of them in trouble.
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Old December 15, 2011, 12:29 AM   #4
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The key word is "occasional." Even an occasional sale to a non-licensee is OK as long as local laws are obeyed. Now if you buy 10,000 carbines on your C&R license and sell them to a guy with a Spanish accent in Nogales, AZ, you might be noticed and charged with horning in on BATFE business.

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Old December 15, 2011, 02:00 AM   #5
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According to the BATF FAQ page a "parts" gun would not be a C&R in the first place.

http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/curi...#modifications

Quote:
Q: What modifications can be made on C&R firearms without changing their C&R classification?
The definition for curio or relic (“C & R”) firearms found in 27 CFR § 478.11 does not specifically state that a firearm must be in its original condition to be classified as a C&R firearm. However, ATF Ruling 85-10, which discusses the importation of military C&R firearms, notes that they must be in original configuration and adds that a receiver is not a C&R item. Combining this ruling and the definition of C&R firearms, the Firearms Technology Branch (FTB) has concluded that a firearm must be in its original condition to be considered a C&R weapon.
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Old December 15, 2011, 08:31 AM   #6
leadchucker
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Quote:
Q: What modifications can be made on C&R firearms without changing their C&R classification?
The definition for curio or relic (“C & R”) firearms found in 27 CFR § 478.11 does not specifically state that a firearm must be in its original condition to be classified as a C&R firearm. However, ATF Ruling 85-10, which discusses the importation of military C&R firearms, notes that they must be in original configuration and adds that a receiver is not a C&R item. Combining this ruling and the definition of C&R firearms, the Firearms Technology Branch (FTB) has concluded that a firearm must be in its original condition to be considered a C&R weapon.
That sentence would seem to clearly spell out what is what, but dealers, sellers, and importers routinely offer parts guns ranging from complete functional but blemished rifles, down to bare receivers, and on each of these items, they require and accept a C&R in order to purchase them. If a firearm not in its original condition (a parts gun, perhaps even just a receiver) is not considered a C&R weapon, then what is it, and why are these dealers handling them as if they were C&R weapons?
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Old December 15, 2011, 01:24 PM   #7
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What does "original condition" mean anyway? That is impossibly vague. One could argue that it means a firearm exactly as it left the factory, with no wear and no replacement parta - in other words, no milsurp need apply.
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Old December 15, 2011, 04:00 PM   #8
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"If a firearm not in its original condition (a parts gun, perhaps even just a receiver) is not considered a C&R weapon, then what is it"

I would suppose it is just another firearm and should be sold using the same rules you would for a modern rifle/pistol. I would also suppose that the dealers selling bare receivers as C&R are not following the rules. It happens.
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Old December 15, 2011, 05:50 PM   #9
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Quote:
What does "original condition" mean anyway? That is impossibly vague. One could argue that it means a firearm exactly as it left the factory, with no wear and no replacement parta - in other words, no milsurp need apply.
The rest of the quoted answer:

Quote:
It is also the opinion of FTB, however, that a minor change such as the addition of scope mounts, non-original sights, or sling swivels would not remove a firearm from its original condition. Moreover, we have determined that replacing particular firearms parts with new parts that are made to the original design would also be acceptable-for example, replacing a cracked M1 Grand stock with a new wooden stock of the same design, but replacing the original firearm stock with a plastic stock would change its classification as a C&R item.
From the BATF FAQ page: http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/curi...#modifications
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Old December 15, 2011, 08:34 PM   #10
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As in many other cases, it is a matter of numbers. I doubt very much that BATFE cares a hoot about one C&R holder putting a plastic stock on the M1 he bought on his license. But if he buys 5000 M1's and makes a business of putting on plastic stocks and reselling them, that is another matter.

But note that Congress is under pressure from the antis, and probably will be from the administration if Obama is re-elected, to end the C&R program. Their concern, as usual, will not be crime, but another step toward their goal of total firearms prohibition. They will claim, and show some evidence, real or faked, that the program has been abused and that guns purchased for collections have ended up in the hands of criminal gangs. It will only take a few such cases to set off the anti press with lurid lies about "thousands of innocent people slaughtered by so-called collectors who bought deadly 91 caliber Russian bolt action machineguns", etc., etc.

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