The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > Hogan's Alley > Handguns: The Revolver Forum

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old November 3, 2010, 10:51 PM   #1
therealdeal
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 15, 2010
Posts: 627
.44, .454, or .480 ruger super redhawk alaskan???

hi,

I will be buying a ruger super redhawk alaskan 2 1/2inch barrel. the next two firearms I buy will be a model 629 S&W stainless steel revolver and the super redhawk. I have a .44 bigboy henry rifle so the .44 fits for the ammo and I had been planning the .44 alaskan. than I had been thinking about the .454casull. now I am thinking of the .480. please any feedback is appreciated; recoil and kick doesn't bother me but any adivce helps. this might be an easy question, but it very possibly the deciding factor in the purchase:

thread question- which of these three firearms is the strongest, most powerful??
__________________
NRA Distinguished Life Member

"Abraham Lincoln freed all men, but Sam Colt made them all equal." (post Civil War slogan)
therealdeal is offline  
Old November 3, 2010, 10:55 PM   #2
therealdeal
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 15, 2010
Posts: 627
thank you in advance. I want the right one to be bought. I tend to lean towards the one that has the best stopping power in case it was ever needed even though obviously in most cases all 3 get the job done
__________________
NRA Distinguished Life Member

"Abraham Lincoln freed all men, but Sam Colt made them all equal." (post Civil War slogan)
therealdeal is offline  
Old November 3, 2010, 11:07 PM   #3
therealdeal
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 15, 2010
Posts: 627
maybe put in revolver forum- meant to do that

qq
__________________
NRA Distinguished Life Member

"Abraham Lincoln freed all men, but Sam Colt made them all equal." (post Civil War slogan)
therealdeal is offline  
Old November 3, 2010, 11:17 PM   #4
Alaska444
Junior member
 
Join Date: April 3, 2010
Posts: 1,231
I was going to buy the .454 Casull a month ago but backed out after reading of the many issues with jump crimp with these high power loads. If you get a full and detailed account of Greg Brush, his Alaskan .454 jammed after I believe 5 shots from jump crimping and he had his wife bring his hunting rifle to finish off the beast that was down but still grunting. I suspect that one of his lucky shots severed the spinal cord and that is why he is still here.

For that reason, I am going with the .44 magnum as well as the fact that I have to shoot one handed on the right with a medical condition in my left arm. There appears to be somewhat of a limit to what a revolver can pack into it beside the recoil factor alone. Adding a muzzle break could be the end of the limited 50 year old + ear I already have, so I don't even consider that option but I know many do. The recoil of the .454 is not at all pleasant but manageable. I would look at how reliable the gun is with high powered rounds.

Lastly, the .44 in Ruger Super Redhawk will handle rounds nearly as powerful as the .454 average load. Stopping a charging bear is a matter of hitting the cns so penetration is the key which a .44 can do quite well. Anything after that is pure luck, as Greg Brush so avidly admits. The one stop shot without a cns hit is not going to happen the way it does with a high powered rifle when using any of the "high" powered revolvers since there is no hydrostatic shock involved below 2400 fps or there about.

Just my own take on the issue. Good luck. Sounds like you should have fun what ever you decide.
Alaska444 is offline  
Old November 3, 2010, 11:44 PM   #5
therealdeal
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 15, 2010
Posts: 627
I appreciate the advice alaska. crimping is something I want to avoid. I had a little trouble with that originally with my CIA650 .357 2" taurus before I broke it in. I don't want to have any doubts my weapon will fire. I like the .480 but I just need to hear from someone that owns one. I know its a popular weapon(or it sells enough). the .480 would be the most powerful, so that has points for me. the .44 is a good ammo for me and shouldn't crimp. I like using the 300gr hornandys, so hopefully that won't be an issue if I go with that one?? the indecision has been making me lean towards the model 629 .44 first so I don't need to choose. LOL! I want the 629 instead of classic 29 since I am a big fan of stainless steel. I am not even sure if the alaskan is stainless?? I'll still buy it anyways. I might get both at once to just end it- my wife order and pay for one and me order and pay for the other
__________________
NRA Distinguished Life Member

"Abraham Lincoln freed all men, but Sam Colt made them all equal." (post Civil War slogan)
therealdeal is offline  
Old November 3, 2010, 11:49 PM   #6
Falcon642
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 29, 2010
Posts: 314
www.genitron.com is a site I use to research different handguns. Most valuable info on the site is the recoil of each handgun. For instance:

Ruger Super Redhawk Alaskan recoil:

.44 Mag - 22.343 ft-lbs of recoil

.480 Ruger - 39.2 ft-lbs of recoil

.454 Casull - 51.165 ft-lbs of recoil

They also have ballistics information for each pistol. Very useful site. Hopefully those recoil numbers help you in your decision.
Falcon642 is offline  
Old November 4, 2010, 12:38 AM   #7
therealdeal
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 15, 2010
Posts: 627
falcon I google, read old forums, am about to check out your site, was leaning towards the .480 400gr and now finally think I am going with the .454 casull after everything I read. it is the most powerful, it has been around for decades, its a beast, I don't shy away from the heavy recoils, I won't be shooting it numerous times in a row where that should be an issue, and if needed I can get the rounds off. I worry about the crimping a little- it seems that the bores aren't even made as much with .454 because of it. I am having trouble finding the right ammo. lots of the data is before the .480 had 400gr too but it seems the .454 is the way to go. I will check your site now
__________________
NRA Distinguished Life Member

"Abraham Lincoln freed all men, but Sam Colt made them all equal." (post Civil War slogan)
therealdeal is offline  
Old November 4, 2010, 01:18 AM   #8
smleno1mkIII
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 5, 2009
Location: washington state
Posts: 135
Go with the .454 you can also shoot 45 colt in it and load them hot like in a Ruger Blackhawk to nearly right on par with 44 mag levels if the .454 is to much of a wrist buster then you can use which ever you want maximum power or 44 mag level power or if you really want to you can shoot cowboy 45 colt loads out of it.
smleno1mkIII is offline  
Old November 4, 2010, 02:33 AM   #9
Lost Sheep
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 24, 2009
Location: Anchorage Alaska
Posts: 3,057
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alaska444

I was going to buy the .454 Casull a month ago but backed out after reading of the many issues with jump crimp with these high power loads. If you get a full and detailed account of Greg Brush, his Alaskan .454 jammed after I believe 5 shots from jump crimping and he had his wife bring his hunting rifle to finish off the beast that was down but still grunting. I suspect that one of his lucky shots severed the spinal cord and that is why he is still here.
From my reading of Greg's account, he fired only 2 or 3 rounds before the revolver got jammed up. The same thing happened to Craig Medred (Anchorage Daily News Outdoors Writer) while hunting with a Freedom Arms .454 Casull. It has also happened to me at the shooting range with my SP101 in .357 Magnum. While my loads were not that hot, my crimps were not that hot, either.

If you crimp well, and test your rounds, you should proceed with confidence.

Quote:
Lastly, the .44 in Ruger Super Redhawk will handle rounds nearly as powerful as the .454 average load. Stopping a charging bear is a matter of hitting the cns so penetration is the key which a .44 can do quite well. Anything after that is pure luck, as Greg Brush so avidly admits. The one stop shot without a cns hit is not going to happen the way it does with a high powered rifle when using any of the "high" powered revolvers since there is no hydrostatic shock involved below 2400 fps or there about.

Just my own take on the issue. Good luck. Sounds like you should have fun what ever you decide.
I don't know about the "average" 454 load, but my reloading manuals and other published data for the 454 Casull put it at 150% of the 44 Magnum's maximum energy levels. Plus the .454 Slug (at .452" diameter) has 11% more frontal area than the .429" diameter 44 Magnum slug and approximately 17% more mass (given the same shaped slug).

The difference between the .480 and the 454 is likewise impressive. 10.4% more frontal area and 16% more mass. But the 480 Ruger actually has less power than the .454 Casull. But the immutable facts of physics do give the 480 a clear edge over the 44 Magnum in both energy and momentum.

SOME proponents of momentum as the deciding factor in killing power and stopping power give the edge to the 480 Ruger over the 454 Casull, despite its lower physics figures. Mostly because the slug is heavier and will penetrate deeper into vital organs or structural (or skull) bones.

At 48,000 psi (SAAMI specs) the 480 Ruger has a lot more pressure than the 44 Mag (36,000 psi), but a lot less than the .454 Casull (over 50,000 psi), making recoil a LOT more manageable than the Casull, but, reportedly not much more than the 44 Magnum. However, the 4 mag tops out at 1200 ft-lbs energy, the 454 Casull at 1900 ft-lbs and the 480 Ruger at 1300. But that is only part of the story. Momentum for the 44 Mag is

Remember, energy shreds flesh, but momentum breaks bone. Against heavily muscled and thick-skinned game, penetration is essential. Anything less just irritates them.

Second to last thought: The concept of putting a 2.5" barrel in front of a 2" cartridge never made much sense to me, ballistically (spelling?) speaking. You are throwing away a lot of power at the expense of muzzle blast and hearing loss. Check out the "Ballistics by the Inch" web site and remember that magnum cartridges benefit from longer barrels than standard cartridges. Boost the volume of a cartridge and you should boost the swept volume of the barrel to match.

Last thought: The 480 Ruger in the 5-shot cylinder ()the 6-shot had rather thin walls between chambers, resulting in 1) interference between adjacent cartridge rims and 2) sticky extraction (reportedly).

If I ever find a 7.5" Ruger Super Redhawk with a 5-shot cylinder and 7.5' barrel, I will be all over it. I MIGHT even be willing to trade my 7.5" SRH in 454 Casull for it. Though the fact that the 480 is now a discontinued cartridge and the 45 Colt/454 Casull is not likely to go away soo are mitigating factors.

Lost Sheep

Remember, verify for yourself everything you learn from casual sources. Believe only half of what you see and one quarter of what you hear. That goes double for everything you find on the internet.

P.S. I have long advocated for an extended-frame Super Redhawk chambered for a cartridge a little longer than the .500 Smith & Wesson. Call it the "500 Bill" after Bill Ruger.

Last edited by Lost Sheep; November 4, 2010 at 02:39 AM.
Lost Sheep is offline  
Old November 4, 2010, 04:46 AM   #10
ClydeFrog
Junior member
 
Join Date: May 1, 2010
Posts: 5,798
Ruger snub AK revolvers, CT lasergrips, my $0.02....

In my opinion, you'd be best served by the .44magnum AK model if you want to use it along with your rifles/hunting handguns etc in .44magnum.
Note too that the .44magnum can also safely fire, .44spl .
If you want real horsepower you can get the more powerful .454 & use .45LC too but with the short barrel the muzzle flash, blast, recoil could be a big problem.

I'd add Mag-Na-Porting and maybe a slick Ruger SuperRedhawk lasergrip; www.CrimsonTrace.com . The red dot laser can be adjusted and the grips work & feel a lot like the Hogue type IMO.

Clyde
ClydeFrog is offline  
Old November 4, 2010, 05:31 AM   #11
22-rimfire
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 19, 2005
Location: Tennessee
Posts: 4,636
The Alaskan in 480 Ruger is very difficult to find. They are selling for a premium. Horandy loads it and the 475 Linebaugh with a 400 gr slug as you know.

I have a 480 Ruger SRH. It is a handfull to shoot. Recoil with the same gun is more substantial in 454 Casull. Does that make it better? Why do you want a 454 or 480 Ruger?
22-rimfire is offline  
Old November 4, 2010, 11:08 AM   #12
coolbreezy
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 22, 2010
Posts: 200
I never understood why the 480 ruger never took off. It seems to be a very well rounded cartridge that brings a lot to the plate. Was it the introduction of the X frame cartridges that made it obscure?
__________________
Kimber custom stainless II, Ruger GP100 6" barrel .357 magnum, Sig p226 ST .40, Taurus Raging Bull .454 casull 6.5", Remington 870 tactical magnum, Taurus pt22, S&W 629-1 3" .44 mag, Ruger Redhawk .44mag 7.5", Beretta M9;
coolbreezy is offline  
Old November 4, 2010, 02:32 PM   #13
chiefr
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 27, 2010
Location: AR
Posts: 1,294
Coolbreezy, I believe you are right about the Xframes popularity.
Both Xframes offer unprecedented power for a handgun.
I have not seen very many Redhawks in 480. Having been to quite a few gunshows, most Redhawks I see are in 44 or 45. Several dealers told me that they could order one in 480 if I wanted one. I understand now they are no longer made. Personally as a big bore blaster, I think this is sad.
chiefr is offline  
Old November 4, 2010, 04:07 PM   #14
xanth
Member
 
Join Date: December 28, 2008
Posts: 62
I've been wanting an "Alaskan" for quite some time and have been going around as to what caliber. Personnally, i'm gonig with the .44, since I have a few other .44's, keeping the same caliber makes it a bit easier. .44 packs quite a punch, easier to obtain, and is quite manageable on the recoil...
xanth is offline  
Old November 4, 2010, 07:33 PM   #15
therealdeal
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 15, 2010
Posts: 627
Quote:
The Alaskan in 480 Ruger is very difficult to find. They are selling for a premium. Horandy loads it and the 475 Linebaugh with a 400 gr slug as you know.
rimfire+everyone else,

yeah, how hard is it to find one of these badboyz anyways?! the .454 is out of stock. Itried two places/2nd guy tried alternative dealers that charge even more(900something bucks instead of 700something bucks). he said its been out since july. I pretty much had no luck whatsoever with the .480 and when I called the 1st guy back from the 2nd dealer he didn't want to try when I told him I thought they stopped production in 2007.

I decided on the .454 - I can handle the recoil and hold tightly to accept it. he said he'd call when it came in. I might be wrong but I think he said no .44 either for the ruger super redhawk alaskan 2 1/2"at the moment(might be wrong). he told me there is a .500 2 1/2inch firearm but then when he looked for his own fun he said that one must be gone now.

anyways the .454 eluded me&I decided last night it was the right choice(thanx for the advice - originally I wrongly thought the .480 was stronger).

I bought some cool ammo(on top of my hollowpoint 125gr golden sabres) for my 2" taurus CIA650 .357 magnum and my 6" ruger GP100 .357 magnum:

winchester supremes 180gr hollowpoint hunting ammo.

less than 20bucks total a box. I don't care if he said it would go thru the badguy; that ammo felt so good coming out of the cia650. the golden sabres are in the loaded gp100 and the winchesters are loaded in the CIA650. I hope over penetration is a myth. the box said it was SD ammo(the seller said it wasn't). it said for light skinned game/deer. maximum energy. I shot doubledigit shots out of the cia650. It didn't crimp once
__________________
NRA Distinguished Life Member

"Abraham Lincoln freed all men, but Sam Colt made them all equal." (post Civil War slogan)
therealdeal is offline  
Old November 4, 2010, 08:02 PM   #16
jborushko
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 5, 2009
Location: Tacoma WA
Posts: 465
how about .460?

you can shoot the .460 .454 and .45lc some day smith and wesson should lengthen the cylinder a little more so we can toss a .410 shell in there - that'll **** of the Taurus judge people
__________________
EDIT: yeah i always "edit" my posts
jborushko is offline  
Old November 4, 2010, 09:02 PM   #17
GeauxTide
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 20, 2009
Location: Helena, AL
Posts: 3,112
Lost Sheep

Very, very well said.
GeauxTide is offline  
Old November 4, 2010, 09:03 PM   #18
22-rimfire
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 19, 2005
Location: Tennessee
Posts: 4,636
When I get the funds, I hope to buy a 475 Linebaugh in a BFR revolver. The 480 Ruger loads will be my "specials". Off the top of my head, the 475 is more powerful than the 454 Casull. It is a .475" caliber bullet (versus .45 caliber) with LOTS of oomph. No snubbies in that caliber however not that I would ever even consider buying one. Freedom Arms also makes revolvers in this caliber if you are willing to pay the price.

I would probably buy a Ruger Alaskan in 480 Ruger if I ran onto one, just because. I have no credible reason for even owing such a beast. But all it takes is money.

Good luck with the 454 C. It really is not my cup of tea. The 480 is painful enough to shoot and in my opinion, a better round for predators and hunting than the 454 unless you are dreaming about 200 yd shots.
22-rimfire is offline  
Old November 4, 2010, 09:32 PM   #19
Alaska444
Junior member
 
Join Date: April 3, 2010
Posts: 1,231
Quote:
I don't know about the "average" 454 load, but my reloading manuals and other published data for the 454 Casull put it at 150% of the 44 Magnum's maximum energy levels. Plus the .454 Slug (at .452" diameter) has 11% more frontal area than the .429" diameter 44 Magnum slug and approximately 17% more mass (given the same shaped slug).
The Buffalo Bore +p+ ammo for .44 mag is rated at over 1600 ft.pds, right up there with many of the .454 rounds, but your point on diameter is well taken. Penetration of this round puts it on par with the average .454 round while at the same time, usual use keeps my recoil way below the .454 Casull recoil.

Heavy .44 Magnum +P+ Ammo - 340 gr. L.F.N. - G.C. (1,478 fps/M.E. 1,649 ft. lbs.) - 20 Round Box

NEW HEAVY 44 MAGNUM +P+


http://www.buffalobore.com/index.php...ct_detail&p=54
Alaska444 is offline  
Old November 4, 2010, 09:46 PM   #20
therealdeal
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 15, 2010
Posts: 627
he had a nice .460 smith&wesson but I didn't want the barrel length. It was a nice firearm. I have never shot one of them; I think it had a converter on it too
__________________
NRA Distinguished Life Member

"Abraham Lincoln freed all men, but Sam Colt made them all equal." (post Civil War slogan)
therealdeal is offline  
Old November 4, 2010, 10:21 PM   #21
RickE
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 18, 2009
Location: Kirkland Wa.
Posts: 516
Go with a Ruger .44 and use Buffalo Bore +P+. Almost 454 numbers, and the Super Black & Red can handle it.
RickE is offline  
Old November 4, 2010, 10:31 PM   #22
Alaska444
Junior member
 
Join Date: April 3, 2010
Posts: 1,231
The other issue of the .454 Casull when I almost bought one a month ago is that of the .45 Long Colt being too short for the chamber allowing the possibilty of damaging the bore when passing through. Don't know all the technical terms, but after the jump crimp issue, seeing a report of a 12 yo killed by the gun from the recoil several years ago as well as the .45 Long Colt issue, and don't forget the unforgiving recoil, I declined the sale and am now looking for a Ruger Super Redhawk in .44. I will use Buffalo Bore as my woods carry ammo.
Alaska444 is offline  
Old November 11, 2010, 02:17 AM   #23
uncowboy
Junior Member
 
Join Date: November 11, 2010
Location: Peoples republic of New Jersey
Posts: 4
More on the 480 Ruger

Where is the Love? I don't understand all the Hate for the 480 Ruger.
I have 3 of them and I love the round. Yes the 480 Alaskins are hard to find . I bought a 7.5" and cut it down to make my owne. I have a Raging Bull and a 9.5" Super redhawk. I shoot 325 gr JHP amd FP and I shoot 2 different cast bullets from it.
I have not yet killed anything with it but It will kill anything that moves.
The 454 in an Alaskin will be all muzzleflash and noise:barf:.
The 480 is the better choice in the snubbie hands down!
Anyone that knows hunting also knows that you can loose the FOOT LBS Figures . The 400GR Hard cast 480 Moving at 1250 FPS with a big flat front will disrupt more tissue and crush more blood vessiles and pass cleanly through any animal you are likely to go up agenst in the Good old USA. So tell me how is a 545 Better? .480" is bigger than .452" The bigger the hole the more blood loss. The 480 is a GREAT hunting hand gun with Managable recoil.
I also have the 454 and when loaded to the published figures you have to have a lot of time behind the trigger to be good with it. I still have people that won't shoot it twice. You feel the 480 but it is MUCH more managable. I vote for the 480 and You should reconcider your choice. J.Michael
uncowboy is offline  
Old November 11, 2010, 08:58 PM   #24
shortwave
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 17, 2007
Location: SOUTHEAST, OHIO
Posts: 5,936
I've also find the 480 to be a very pleasant rd to shoot. I've got a 7 1/2" BFR in 480/475 Linebaugh and there's a huge difference in the two loads. I couldn't imagine the recoil in a 2 1/2" 475 Linebaugh .. Don't think the wrist could handle that one.

Have been shooting this pistol for two years and this year will be the first I'll deer hunt with it using the 480. The 480 ammo production has been discontinued and MAY dry up but as of now, I've had no trouble finding it. I'm hoping I'll have enough brass to reload if it ever does get hard to get as I sure would miss the 480.
shortwave is offline  
Old November 11, 2010, 11:14 PM   #25
22-rimfire
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 19, 2005
Location: Tennessee
Posts: 4,636
Quote:
The 480 ammo production has been discontinued and MAY dry up but as of now
Since when? I have a fair supply of 480 Ruger. It is plenty for deer... plenty.
22-rimfire is offline  
Reply

Tags
alaskan , handgun , redhawk , revolver , ruger

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:16 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2014 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.13257 seconds with 7 queries