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Old September 23, 2010, 08:46 AM   #1
Akseminole
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Full auto cap and ball revolver...

This is purely a hypothetical question.
I don't need lectures on how I should just go the normal route of getting nfa.
Its just a question.

I have no intent nor the ability to make such a device. I'm just curious...

Would a "fully automatic cap and ball muzzle loading Black powder revolver" be an nfa weapon?
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Old September 23, 2010, 05:32 PM   #2
Skans
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I believe that black-powder guns are excluded from the definition of "firearm". And, only fully automatic firearms are classified as machineguns. So, technically, if you could develop a full-auto black powder gun (i.e. doesn't use cartridges) I doubt that it would be classified as a machinegun.

However, BATFE has a way of ruling things to be machineguns that are not machineguns - they do what they want without regard to consistancy in their rulings or with regard to the law. Look up Akins Accelerator. See also, USAS-12 v. Saiga shotguns; open bolt guns v. AR-15's; unregistered DIAS's, etc.

BATFE - "If you make it and it works, we will figure out a way to make it illegal."

FWIW, there are full-auto airguns and they are not regulated as machineguns.
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Old September 23, 2010, 06:58 PM   #3
surbat6
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There was a flintlock gun with seven barrels like a pepperbox. I've seen a reproduction of the gun, built by Kit Ravenshear. When you pulled the trigger, the priming ignited a powder train that fired all seven barrels in RAPID sequence. The original was intended, as the story goes, to clear the enemy ship's rigging of snipers during a sea battle. AFAIK, neither the original nor the repro flintlock qualified as NFA weapons.
Converting a C&B revolver to do the same would produce a result that was essentially a chainfire, not a good thing.
It might be possible to convert a pepperbox to work like that musket and fire all six chambers in succession, but the utility of a modification like this is problematic. Only a guess, but I figure the BATF would find such a conversion more amusing than illegal.
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Old September 23, 2010, 08:30 PM   #4
James K
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I do wish folks would quit confusing "black powder gun" with "muzzle loading gun" or "not fixed cartridge gun."

A black powder gun is any gun firing a cartridge loaded with black powder; its age and loading method are not relevant and there is no section in any law I know that exempts "black powder guns" from anything.

If you load a bunch of .45 ACP rounds with black powder and fire them in your Thompson, the Thompson is still an NFA firearm even though it is a "black powder gun." (Of course you have a heckuva mess to clean up, but the NFA doesn't address that.)

Jim
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Old September 23, 2010, 10:17 PM   #5
Newton24b
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the idea is to keep a muzzleloading revolver from going semi automatic or fully automatic. but the thing is, this actually can be done. And it has been done.

however fun it is to think about how interesting it would be, the slight problem is that slow fire helps you get time between shots for the smoke to clear out, and well imagine it with a colt walker, many people dont like the recoil from them, so imagine all six rounds going off in 10 second string.

1st shot at ground
2nd shot 6 feet higher
3rd shot directly overhead
......
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Old September 24, 2010, 01:56 AM   #6
Akseminole
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I was of course referring to non fixed cartridge bp guns.

I'm sure that there could be some ruling that made the revolver cylinder the fixed cartridge if the batfe decided that it was more than just an anachronistic curiosity.

Thank you for your time and responses.
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Old September 24, 2010, 09:57 PM   #7
Newton24b
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and sadly enough, it would be an illegal machinegun, but if you intoduced a device that would disconnect the sear from the hammer then it would be ok.
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Old October 26, 2010, 06:56 PM   #8
silvercorvette
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Since no one asked how would this gun work, it seems like it would be impossible to design a gun that worked.
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Old October 27, 2010, 10:21 AM   #9
demigod
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It's a piston conversion of course!!
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