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Old November 28, 2014, 12:54 AM   #1
Koda94
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Gun-Free School Zones Act of 1990

Im traveling out of state where the state (Idaho) currently recognizes my home state CHL.

From what I read the GFSZ act does not allow out of state CHL's to pass thru school zones while carrying.

What is the consensus on this am I missing something? How does everyone else handle this? In unfamiliar territory its impossible to know where all the schools are and so suddenly you see a school crossing sign as your driving down the road you no longer are "unknowingly" in a school zone.
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Old November 28, 2014, 06:10 AM   #2
DMacLeod
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Wasn't this struck down?

A lot of states have laws banning possession of a firearm. But that is on school grounds.
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Old November 28, 2014, 08:22 AM   #3
Tom Servo
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Quote:
From what I read the GFSZ act does not allow out of state CHL's to pass thru school zones while carrying.
This is correct. Here's the ATF's interpretation.

You may travel through a school zone if the weapon is loaded and in a locked container.
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Old November 28, 2014, 10:05 AM   #4
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IIRC, the GFSZ Act was passed, struck down basically because Congress didn't put the right information in the Congressional record, then re-enacted with more information in the record.
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Old November 28, 2014, 10:54 AM   #5
Koda94
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Tom, thankyou that pretty much sums it up..... Which pretty much limits one travel while carrying to highway/interstate roads. Yet one more serious constitutional infringement on the rights of the good guys.

Spats, my study shows the revision only addressed interstate commerce of firearms, not private carry.
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Old November 28, 2014, 12:07 PM   #6
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Yes. Congress failed to mention that firearms travel in interstate commerce and that it was enacting the GFSZA under the Commerce Clause (or something along those lines). The original question was about the GFSZA and DMacLeod mentioned it having been struck down. That's all I was addressing.
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Old November 28, 2014, 12:14 PM   #7
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Wasnt it the case/indictment that was struck down not the law?
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Old November 28, 2014, 12:19 PM   #8
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Both, actually. Lopez was indicted for violating the GFSZA. He was convicted at the trial court, appealed, and the Fifth Circuit Court of Appeals held the GFSZA unconstitutional, thus reversing his conviction. SCOTUS agreed, which dismissed his case. You can read the case here.
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Old November 28, 2014, 12:22 PM   #9
Koda94
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Well then regardless the law is in effect and hasnt changed in regards to private carry.
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Old November 28, 2014, 01:51 PM   #10
militant
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I suggest reading this.

http://www.metroplexchl.com/instruct...e-school-zones

You can only have a firearm in 1000 feet of a school zone if:
It's on private property (your home)
You are a CHL holder of that state
It's in a locked box
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Old November 28, 2014, 11:19 PM   #11
Aguila Blanca
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Koda94
Well then regardless the law is in effect and hasnt changed in regards to private carry.
Basically correct. What Spats is saying is that federal laws generally are held to be constitutional if they pertain in some way to interstate commerce. The feds aren't supposed to get involved in matters that affect only one state. (That's why the FBI doesn't generally get involved in things like convenience store robberies. The FBI gets involved in kidnapping because they claim a presumption that the victim may have been transported across state lines. The get involved in bank robberies because banks are insured by the federal government.)

The original GFSZ act didn't include the magic words "affecting interstate commerce," and that was the basis for overturning it. When it was re-enacted, they added the magic words. The magic words weren't talking about private individuals taking a firearm across state lines in the course of travel. The reference to interstate travel refers to the gun having crossed state lines in the course of commerce, which is what gives the U.S. Congress the power to regulate it.

For example, a Colt pistol (made in Connecticut) and sold in North Carolina.

FYI, the feds have been stretching the interstate commerce concept almost beyond recognition. It's not just if a finished product manufactured in State A is sold in State B. If the manufacturer uses materials or components from other states, that will qualify the product as having traveled in interstate commerce. They've even contorted it to apply to things that never leave the state. There was such a case involving marijuana. The feds claimed jurisdiction to prosecute someone who grew marijuana and sold it in his home state. The feds took made Byzantine argument that, because he grew and sold marijuana in California, that meant the buyers didn't have to import marijuana from another state (which would have been interstate commerce), therefore the subject "affected" interstate commerce (by making it not happen).

Small wonder so many people say, "I love my country but I fear my government."
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Old November 29, 2014, 12:36 AM   #12
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Quote:
Small wonder so many people say, "I love my country but I fear my government."
yeah it was pretty depressing when I reviewed my travel laws for Idaho and brought up the GFSZ act, this law pretty much means I cant carry here until I visit enough to "knowingly" know where all the school zones are and even then its a huge risk. This is such a huge infringement on the law abiding it really needs to be struck down.
Im assuming the GFSZ act was passed in response to children bringing guns to school and well we can see how well thats worked years later.

Since I visit annually, one possibility is that I could apply for a non-resident Idaho permit. I'm wondering if even though I am a non-resident the law states the permit must be issued by the state the school resides in to be exempt from the law....
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Old November 29, 2014, 08:22 AM   #13
steve4102
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Servo
You may travel through a school zone if the weapon is loaded and in a locked container.
Shouldn't this read, Un-loaded and in a locked container?
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Old November 29, 2014, 09:04 AM   #14
Aguila Blanca
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Koda94
Since I visit annually, one possibility is that I could apply for a non-resident Idaho permit. I'm wondering if even though I am a non-resident the law states the permit must be issued by the state the school resides in to be exempt from the law....
I don't understand what it is you're wondering about. Are you asking if a non-resident license/permit covers you in the state that issued the permit? Yes, it does.

But it doesn't make you "exempt" from the law. It puts you in compliance with the law.

Better explanation of how the law got reinstated: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Lopez

Here's a link to the law: http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/922

To find the GFSZ part, scroll down to (q)(2)(A)

Then look at (q)(2)(B)(ii):

Quote:
(B) Subparagraph (A) does not apply to the possession of a firearm—

(i) ...;

(ii) if the individual possessing the firearm is licensed to do so by the State in which the school zone is located or a political subdivision of the State, and the law of the State or political subdivision requires that, before an individual obtains such a license, the law enforcement authorities of the State or political subdivision verify that the individual is qualified under law to receive the license;
The law does not require that you be a resident of the state in order for the law not to apply to you. It requires that you have a license (permit) issued by the state in which the school zone is located. BUT ... it also requires that in issuing the license/permit the authorities of the issuing state must conduct a background check. That means you can't rely on the unlicensed carry provisions in states like Arizona and Alaska. And it means you're screwed if you visit Vermont, since Vermont doesn't issue licenses at all, so you simply have no way of complying with the requirement to have a license issued by the state in which the school zone is located.

Last edited by Aguila Blanca; November 29, 2014 at 09:23 AM.
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Old November 29, 2014, 09:08 AM   #15
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So are you a teacher or some kind of administrator that has reason to be in a school zone for more than a few seconds as you drive by? Unless you are required to visit schools in Idaho as part of your job, I don't see the purpose in worrying about this.
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Old November 29, 2014, 09:42 AM   #16
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Let's clear this up, just a bit, shall we?

In the course of enacting Federal law, many State legislatures enact a form of reciprocal law. That means that whatever the effects of the Federal law may have, the State now has a law (modeled after the Federal law) that can be enforced at the State level.

Idaho has not enacted any reciprocal "Gun Free School Zone" law, such as we are discussing here.

This means that should you carry (openly or concealed) through one of these Federal "zones", you will not have violated any Idaho State law. You will, of course, have violated the Federal law. Having either a resident or non-resident Idaho Concealed Weapons Permit, will place you into compliance with the Federal law.
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Old November 29, 2014, 11:57 AM   #17
Koda94
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Quote:
Shouldn't this read, Un-loaded and in a locked container?
correct. Also, the way I read the law any ammo must be in the same condition, locked or in a place not readily accessible from the passenger compartment (trunk)

Quote:
So are you a teacher or some kind of administrator that has reason to be in a school zone for more than a few seconds as you drive by? Unless you are required to visit schools in Idaho as part of your job, I don't see the purpose in worrying about this.
No, but this is the point. The GFSZ law covers all schools, private and public all the way thru college. Its near impossible to drive through any town without crossing a school zone.

Quote:
I don't understand what it is you're wondering about. Are you asking if a non-resident license/permit covers you in the state that issued the permit? Yes, it does.
no, what I was considering is that Idaho will issue a non-resident an Idaho permit. Yes Idaho reciprocates my states permit except the GFSZ does not while in any other state. The Idaho permit would take care of that. This is only practical if I visit Idaho regularly enough.


Quote:
Idaho has not enacted any reciprocal "Gun Free School Zone" law, such as we are discussing here.

This means that should you carry (openly or concealed) through one of these Federal "zones", you will not have violated any Idaho State law. You will, of course, have violated the Federal law. Having either a resident or non-resident Idaho Concealed Weapons Permit, will place you into compliance with the Federal law.
I don't believe this is correct. The law states that only a state issued permit is valid exemption from the law. And how is still violating the federal law not an issue?
Reality is the risk is small, but say if one gets pulled over for a taillight or whatever and officer asks you if you have any firearms... you could be facing a felony record and penalties plus a lifetime ban on firearms.
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Old November 29, 2014, 12:34 PM   #18
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Quote:
Reality is the risk is small, but say if one gets pulled over for a taillight or whatever and officer asks you if you have any firearms... you could be facing a felony record and penalties plus a lifetime ban on firearms.
In this instance, the risk may not be as small as in some others: in many places, school zones have lower speed limits, or limits that vary, and they're fairly popular places for LE to set up speed traps. If you're in a state that's not your own, you're that much less likely both to know the relevant laws and to know where the school zones are; you don't have to be very distracted to miss a "school zone" sign.
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Old November 29, 2014, 09:02 PM   #19
Aguila Blanca
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Koda94
Quote:
Idaho has not enacted any reciprocal "Gun Free School Zone" law, such as we are discussing here.

This means that should you carry (openly or concealed) through one of these Federal "zones", you will not have violated any Idaho State law. You will, of course, have violated the Federal law. Having either a resident or non-resident Idaho Concealed Weapons Permit, will place you into compliance with the Federal law.
I don't believe this is correct. The law states that only a state issued permit is valid exemption from the law. And how is still violating the federal law not an issue?
What you quoted IS correct. If you possess a license/permit issued by the state in which the school zone is located OR ANY POLITICAL SUBDIVISION OF THE STATE, the prohibition against carrying with 1000 feet of a school does not apply to you. So if you obtain an Idaho permit, how would you still be violating the law?
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Old November 29, 2014, 10:50 PM   #20
Koda94
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Quote:
What you quoted IS correct.
ok, so I had to go back and re-read this but with my thinking cap on this time and yes you are correct that what I quoted IS correct so what I did was mis-read over the part about confirming if I got the non-res Idaho state issued permit I wouldnt be violating the GFSZ law while traveling in Idaho as a non-resident.
My bad, chalk that up to forum skimming on the side while visiting family for thanksgiving and trying to get in a quick reply

anyways, thanks all for helping clarify the ridiculous law is in effect for traveling out of state. I can only hope someday this is struck down... I wont hold my breath.
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Old December 1, 2014, 12:33 AM   #21
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How does state to state reciprocity exist in this context? Does it mean that if State A recognizes licenses from State B, then it is not a violation of State A's law for a citizen of State B to carry in or through school zones, but it would still be a violation of federal law? That appears to be the ATF's interpretation, but ignores an argument that could be made that by extending reciprocity to citizens of another state who have CCWs, the recognizing state is "certifying" that the nonresident has met the requirements of the recognizing state's laws.

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Old December 1, 2014, 01:20 AM   #22
Koda94
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62coltnavy, the only way a state can certify someone as qualified is to issue them the license to carry. Reciprocation doesnt accomplish that because each state sets their own requirements for concealed carry.
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Old December 1, 2014, 07:21 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by 62coltnavy
How does state to state reciprocity exist in this context? Does it mean that if State A recognizes licenses from State B, then it is not a violation of State A's law for a citizen of State B to carry in or through school zones, but it would still be a violation of federal law?
That's correct. It's still a violation of federal law to carry through a school zone on reciprocity.

This isn't the ATF's "interpretation," this is clearly stated in the law: the only ticket through a GFSZ is a license issued by the state in which the school zone is located. See post #14 -- I quoted the pertinent portion of the law.
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Old December 2, 2014, 12:46 AM   #24
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My point is that the basis for reciprocity grants is that the requirements of the other states meet or exceed those of the recognizing state, which generally include background checks. What purpose is served by denying people who have CCWs issued after a background check from carrying in any state that will recognize their permit? The federal law as it stands means that a person really cannot carry outside that person's home state without a license from any state in which travel is anticipated, because when it comes right down to it, the 1000' limitation makes it literally impossible to carry in any city or town without violating the law. What is the point of a 49 state ban if the CCW permit holder has passed a background check and would qualify for a license if a resident of the state granting reciprocity?
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Old December 2, 2014, 06:15 AM   #25
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Your point is understood but, unfortunately, logic doesn't play a big part in legislation. Until change, the language of the law is plain.
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