The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > The Conference Center > Law and Civil Rights

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old July 9, 2015, 06:41 PM   #1
rickyrick
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 15, 2010
Location: Mesquite Jungle Desert, West Texas, USA
Posts: 3,513
Seattle proposes tax on guns and ammo

http://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-...-on-gun-sales/

Because cities routinely tax items that harm people; the Seattle council president is proposing a tax on guns and ammo sales.

Also they wish to impose fines on people that don't report their missing guns
__________________
Navin R. Johnson: "He hates these cans!!!! Stay away from the cans!!!!"
rickyrick is offline  
Old July 9, 2015, 07:57 PM   #2
ballardw
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 19, 2008
Posts: 385
Quote:
Because cities routinely tax items that harm people; the Seattle council president is proposing a tax on guns and ammo sales.
So show me the tax on knives, bats, rocks, pieces of pipe, fists, feet and perhaps the biggest problem politicians.
__________________
-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
All data is flawed, some just less so.
ballardw is offline  
Old July 9, 2015, 08:43 PM   #3
KyJim
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 26, 2005
Location: The Bluegrass
Posts: 8,017
But you left out the most important part:
Quote:
Seattle will likely be sued if one bill or both become law, Burgess says. The state’s pre-emption statute prohibits municipalities from regulating firearms, including their “registration, licensing, possession, purchase, sale, acquisition, transfer, discharge, and transportation … or any other element.” It also says they can enact “only those laws and ordinances relating to firearms that are specifically authorized by state law.”

The pre-emption statute is why Alan Gottlieb, founder of the Bellevue-based Second Amendment Foundation, says a Seattle tax is “dead on arrival.”
http://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-...-on-gun-sales/

I don't know Washington state politics but this sort of proposal by larger cities is the reason a number of states have preemption statutes.
__________________
Jim's Rules of Carry: 1. Any gun is better than no gun. 2. A gun that is reliable is better than a gun that is not. 3. A hole in the right place is better than a hole in the wrong place. 4. A bigger hole is a better hole.

no guns = might makes right
KyJim is offline  
Old July 9, 2015, 09:24 PM   #4
rickyrick
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 15, 2010
Location: Mesquite Jungle Desert, West Texas, USA
Posts: 3,513
I didn't read that far, I skimmed it to see if worthy of posting. Still at work lol.
__________________
Navin R. Johnson: "He hates these cans!!!! Stay away from the cans!!!!"
rickyrick is offline  
Old July 9, 2015, 09:44 PM   #5
44 AMP
Staff
 
Join Date: March 11, 2006
Location: Upper US
Posts: 13,254
The pre-emtption law will either prevent passage, or will be the basis for throwing it out on its first court challenge.

The good folk of Seattle line up gladly to tax beer, wine, cigarettes, and soda pop, but whine like whipped pups if anyone even breathes a hint of applying the SAME TAX on their Starbuck's coffee!
__________________
All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.
44 AMP is offline  
Old July 9, 2015, 11:33 PM   #6
rickyrick
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 15, 2010
Location: Mesquite Jungle Desert, West Texas, USA
Posts: 3,513
Starbucks is bad for you.... At least some of the chemical Carmels.

Gun loving is still strong down Vantucky way
__________________
Navin R. Johnson: "He hates these cans!!!! Stay away from the cans!!!!"
rickyrick is offline  
Old July 10, 2015, 12:03 AM   #7
kilimanjaro
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 23, 2009
Posts: 2,362
Politics in Washington state are pretty simple. Seattle, Olympia, and Bellingham are liberal cities and their votes outnumber the remainder of the state. So these urban enclaves of students and yuppies run roughshod over the more rural, agricultural, small town conservative population. The usual Gerrymandered districts, voter fraud, and a liberal press keep the situation stable.

Last year's public vote on background checks for private sales is an example. The Legislature turned it down two years running, so the Initiative process was used to get the liberal vote out, and Seattle rammed it down the states' throat.
kilimanjaro is offline  
Old July 10, 2015, 11:28 AM   #8
Theohazard
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 19, 2012
Location: Western WA
Posts: 2,661
Quote:
Originally Posted by rickyrick
Starbucks is bad for you.... At least some of the chemical Carmels.
No it's not; Starbucks is no worse for you than any other coffee that has fat and sugar in it. The rumor about their flavoring was started by an idiotic food blogger who has zero training in nutrition and just makes stuff up to get Web traffic. I don't go to Starbucks and I don't really care about them, but it annoys me when people make a living by spreading BS regarding health and nutrition.

Anyway, back on topic: As a WA taxpayer, this really angers me. Seattle must know this won't go anywhere because of the state premption laws. So what's the overall goal here? Do they honestly think this law will stick? I find that hard to believe considering how Seattle has tried stuff like this before only to lose in court. So will they see this as some sort of moral victory in the end? Or is it just a political ploy to show their constituents that they tried something and then blame the "gun nuts" for the bill being shot down in court? In any case, this means that Seattle has absolutely no problem wasting state time and money on legislation and lawsuits that they know will just get shot down in the end.
__________________
0331: "Accuracy by volume."
Theohazard is offline  
Old July 10, 2015, 11:50 AM   #9
CowTowner
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 17, 2007
Location: Cowtown of course!
Posts: 1,621
Quote:
this means that Seattle has absolutely no problem wasting state time and money on legislation and lawsuits that they know will just get shot down in the end.
Misuse of public funds? I don't know the laws in Washington, but I'm confident they have something similar on the books.
__________________
NRA Chief Range Safety Officer, Home Firearms Safety, Pistol and Rifle Instructor
"There are three classes of people: those who see, those who see when they are shown, those who do not see."
Leonardo da Vinci
CowTowner is offline  
Old July 10, 2015, 11:54 AM   #10
44 AMP
Staff
 
Join Date: March 11, 2006
Location: Upper US
Posts: 13,254
Quote:
Or is it just a political ploy to show their constituents that they tried something and then blame the "gun nuts" for the bill being shot down in court? In any case, this means that Seattle has absolutely no problem wasting state time and money on legislation and lawsuits that they know will just get shot down in the end.
This is the most likely explanation, in my opinion.

They have NO problem wasting money. And when they run short, due to their own greed and excesses, they tax the rest of the state to pay for their ferry, or new sports stadium, or freeway, or....

God Bless Seattle, may it rust in peace....
__________________
All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.
44 AMP is offline  
Old July 10, 2015, 12:48 PM   #11
rickyrick
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 15, 2010
Location: Mesquite Jungle Desert, West Texas, USA
Posts: 3,513
Well sorry about the Starbucks chemical remark, sugary drinks are bad for you.... The caramel taste chemical to me so I let it be...


The politics in WA and the PNW are way different than West Texas where I moved from. The population is definitely not evenly distributed. Not density nor politically.,
I have lots of wide-eyed learning to do. Since the preemption was explained, it does seem like a waste of public funds
__________________
Navin R. Johnson: "He hates these cans!!!! Stay away from the cans!!!!"
rickyrick is offline  
Old July 10, 2015, 03:15 PM   #12
Sequins
Member
 
Join Date: October 14, 2014
Posts: 99
I live in Seattle and here is my insight,

Seattle just switched from "at large" city elections to a ward healer district system. Tim Burgess, city council chair, is not going to win re-election in a districted race, so he is trying to convince his new district he is as blue as they are. Tim has a pretty rightwing compromise at every turn reputation and he got a super lefty district.

This won't even pass I bet, he is just desperate. Seattle also has a literal communist on city council.
Sequins is offline  
Old July 10, 2015, 03:53 PM   #13
JERRYS.
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 23, 2013
Location: Alabama
Posts: 950
it would seem as Seattle goes, so goes the rest of the state.
JERRYS. is offline  
Old July 10, 2015, 09:52 PM   #14
44 AMP
Staff
 
Join Date: March 11, 2006
Location: Upper US
Posts: 13,254
Quote:
it would seem as Seattle goes, so goes the rest of the state.
Not always, but most of the time. They try real hard to drag the rest of us down whatever rat/rabbit hole they fancy at the time.

the background check thing is a case in point. After defeating the bills in two election cycles, they got around us by using the ballot initiative. Wildly inaccurate (aka LYING) commercials convinced the 5 counties in the Sea-Tac corridor to pass it, and their population outweighed the entire rest of the state.

THat law is absolute crap. It cannot be enforced as written, the state is not providing guidance to LEO, various state LE agencies have stated they will not enforce it, absent further guidance, and it is being challenged in court.

Gun shows I have been to recently are doing "voluntary compliance" pending the court decision.
__________________
All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.
44 AMP is offline  
Old July 11, 2015, 11:26 PM   #15
johnwilliamson062
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 16, 2008
Posts: 7,225
I distilled some water today and it tasted pretty chemically. No surprise, after all Dihydrogen Monoxide(DHMO) is linked to thousands of deaths a year. It is almost impossible to remove this chemical from your water no matter how many times you distill the water.

Where does the tax go?
__________________
$0 of an NRA membership goes to legislative action or court battles. Not a dime. Only money contributed to the NRA-ILA or NRA-PVF. Second Amendment Foundation is a solid alternative.
First Shotgun Thread First Rifle Thread First Pistol Thread
johnwilliamson062 is offline  
Old July 12, 2015, 03:10 AM   #16
Theohazard
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 19, 2012
Location: Western WA
Posts: 2,661
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnwilliamson062
I distilled some water today and it tasted pretty chemically. No surprise, after all Dihydrogen Monoxide(DHMO) is linked to thousands of deaths a year. It is almost impossible to remove this chemical from your water no matter how many times you distill the water.
Yeah, dihydrogen monoxide is scary stuff. Did you know that DHMO is used as a major ingredient in yoga mats, it's used as an industrial coolant in nuclear reactions, it causes structural breakdown of steel, and it can easily kill you if you inhale it? We need to ban DHMO.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 44 AMP
the background check thing is a case in point. After defeating the bills in two election cycles, they got around us by using the ballot initiative. Wildly inaccurate (aka LYING) commercials convinced the 5 counties in the Sea-Tac corridor to pass it, and their population outweighed the entire rest of the state.

THat law is absolute crap. It cannot be enforced as written, the state is not providing guidance to LEO, various state LE agencies have stated they will not enforce it, absent further guidance, and it is being challenged in court.
The only good thing about 594 is that it's so ridiculous that it's not being enforced. As far as I know, nobody has been arrested for holding someone else's gun, even though the law makes that illegal in most cases.

But the sad thing is that a huge number of WA gun owners are breaking the law on a regular basis considering there's no distinction between "Hold this gun while I pee" and "Here's a gun to keep for life". And eventually either the law will be changed or it will start to be fully enforced, and then we'll be risking jail time just by participating in social shooting activities.
__________________
0331: "Accuracy by volume."
Theohazard is offline  
Old July 12, 2015, 06:22 AM   #17
Tom Servo
Staff
 
Join Date: September 27, 2008
Location: Foothills of the Appalachians
Posts: 11,416
Quote:
The only good thing about 594 is that it's so ridiculous that it's not being enforced.
That's also the worst thing about it: it provides the illusion of safety. People get accustomed to the lack of enforcement and forget the law is on the books.

What happens when I get a sheriff who decides to enforce it? "Hold my rifle while I tie my shoes" becomes a felony conviction for me and the person to whom I hand the gun.
__________________
Sometimes it’s nice not to destroy the world for a change.
--Randall Munroe
Tom Servo is offline  
Old July 12, 2015, 11:27 AM   #18
44 AMP
Staff
 
Join Date: March 11, 2006
Location: Upper US
Posts: 13,254
Quote:
becomes a felony conviction for me and the person to whom I hand the gun.
and another set of charges when he hands it BACK!!
__________________
All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.
44 AMP is offline  
Old July 12, 2015, 01:59 PM   #19
rickyrick
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 15, 2010
Location: Mesquite Jungle Desert, West Texas, USA
Posts: 3,513
It's all sounding pretty silly. But I think a poor chap could still get into serious trouble.

I'm not sure that I594 was widely publicised enough. Some unwitting good person could get into trouble just by ignorance of the law. I'm aware of it because it was something that interested me.
Many gun owners don't pay attention to these political maneuvers or understand some of the implications.
__________________
Navin R. Johnson: "He hates these cans!!!! Stay away from the cans!!!!"
rickyrick is offline  
Old July 12, 2015, 04:19 PM   #20
leadcounsel
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 8, 2005
Location: Tacoma, WA
Posts: 1,903
Quote:
Politics in Washington state are pretty simple. Seattle, Olympia, and Bellingham are liberal cities and their votes outnumber the remainder of the state. So these urban enclaves of students and yuppies run roughshod over the more rural, agricultural, small town conservative population. The usual Gerrymandered districts, voter fraud, and a liberal press keep the situation stable.

Last year's public vote on background checks for private sales is an example. The Legislature turned it down two years running, so the Initiative process was used to get the liberal vote out, and Seattle rammed it down the states' throat.
I've lived in a bunch of states, and WA is the easiest place to vote. They send a ballot and envelope. Just mark it and send it back with a stamp or drop it at a number of ballot drop boxes.

Yet WA had only 38% voter turnout in 2014 and got I594 rammed down our throat, AND I BLAME THE RURAL FOLKS THAT DIDN'T VOTE AS MUCH AS THE LIBERALS THAT PASSED IT. I was furious at the rural counties that had 20% turnout, 30% turnout, 40% turnout. Tens of thousands or more people, presumably pro gun, didn't even bother to vote. Rural areas had abysmal turnout.
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/11/12/op...ears.html?_r=0

So, we can have a defeatist attitude about "King county this," or "Olympia that..." but if folks can't even spend 10 minutes and a .40 cent stamp to have a voice, it's simply pathetic.

Pro-gun people MUST VOTE!!! It's that simple. We can complain, debate, argue, spend millions fighting lawsuits... but in reality if we would just VOTE most of this could be prevented. WA could be a conservative pro-gun state if the conservative gun owners would simply VOTE!!!!!!!
__________________
2A: "A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed." US Army Combat Veteran and Paratrooper: OIF (2008, 2009, 2010) and OND (2011). Bronze Star Medal and Meritorious Service Medal recipient. NRA Lifetime Member. I'm a lawyer, but not YOUR lawyer and I have not offered you legal advice.
leadcounsel is offline  
Old July 12, 2015, 07:11 PM   #21
Tom Servo
Staff
 
Join Date: September 27, 2008
Location: Foothills of the Appalachians
Posts: 11,416
Guys, let's drop the liberal/conservative comparisons. There are liberals who oppose gun control and conservatives who support it. Those labels are arbitrary and inaccurate.
__________________
Sometimes it’s nice not to destroy the world for a change.
--Randall Munroe
Tom Servo is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:29 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2015, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2015 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.13149 seconds with 9 queries