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Old October 22, 2010, 11:43 AM   #26
kraigwy
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The 50 Cal is not an anti-personal round, but it can be effective as such.

The best example I've seen was in SE Asia. Our A CO. was in danger of getting over run. On the high point inside the perimeter was a 50 cal gun crew. It was very successful in solving the problem but not by hitting people.

The rounds were hitting and busting up rocks, we found more damage done by chunks of rocks then the rounds themselves.

Its a good system, but not the end-all of weapon systems. It wouldn't replace the Med. MG, which would be better for personal. As a sniper system, its great on vehicles and harden targets, but can't compete with other systems in accuracy dept., against soft targets.

Personally I've gotten more use out of the 50 cal out of a 50 cal de-armor in EOD work then shooting.
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Old October 22, 2010, 11:59 AM   #27
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Supposedly during WW II the Germans had a very healthy, and almost mystical, fear of the M2 and its capabilities.
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Old October 22, 2010, 12:03 PM   #28
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You want to know how Powerfull 50 BMG is:


50 BMG once taught a class called "Ass Kicking 101". There were no survivors.

50 BMG does not hunt because the word hunting implies the possibility of failure. 50 BMG goes killing.

When the Boogeyman goes to sleep every night he checks his closet for 50 BMG.

50 BMG can slam revolving doors.

Q: What’s 30 times 50 BMG?
A: Oblivion.

50 BMG doesn't read books. He stares them down until he gets the information he wants.

There is no theory of evolution, just a list of creatures 50 BMG allows to live

50 BMG Isn't funny, stop laughing.


Thank God it Friday
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Old October 22, 2010, 12:46 PM   #29
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Quote:
Tracer rounds would torch the Zeros more often than not.
This has more to do with the fact that WWII Japanese combat aircraft lacked self-sealing fuel tanks; any of them would go up in flames if you hit them in the right spot with an incendiary round, regardless of caliber. Their aircraft also lacked armor; this was partially because Japanese engine and fuel technology was not up to par with the Americans and the Germans, making weight reduction their best option for increasing performance, and partially because of a cultural samurai-inspired attitude that it is honorable to die in combat and dishonorable to return from battle having been defeated.
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Actually, the 50BMG was developed for the B-17 Bomber, P-47, and P-51 Fighters to penetrate the armor, at 800 meters, of the German FW-190 Fighter.
As Scorch suggests, this is complete fiction. These aircraft entered service long after the round and the M-2 machine gun were developed; the P-47 and P-51 were designed after the war was well underway, although the P-47 was developed from the prewar P-43 Lancer, which was itself an upgraded Seversky P-35.

In fact, IIRC it took over a decade for the US to build a combat aircraft equipped with an M-2! This makes sense when you consider that most 1920s fighters were lightweight tube-and-fabric airplanes with only a few hundred horsepower; adding such a heavy weapons system would severely compromise their performance and range. Furthermore, they would be shooting at other tube-and-fabric airplanes, making rate of fire more important that sheer power; since these aircraft consist mostly of empty space, the key was to hit the engine, pilot, or fuel tanks. A .30cal or smaller round was adequate for this task because cockpit armor was too heavy for the aircraft of the period and the fuel tanks would not be self-sealing since the technology had not been developed yet.

Although the .50BMG/M-2 combo was great during WWII, it's telling that it was rapidly phased out following the war. Aircraft got a lot bigger, faster, and tougher, and 20mm or larger cannons became commonplace. The mainstay of USAF air power during the Korean War, the F-86 Sabre, had six .50BMG guns and was widely considered under-gunned by its pilots. The Soviet MiG-15 and the US Navy F2H Banshee and F9F Panther had cannons by this time.
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Old October 22, 2010, 01:20 PM   #30
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I'm not going to go into the reasons I wanted to use one like I did, just the technical aspects of a fire position.

I wanted a mobile fire position that had a certain kind of stealth. I used a long bed Chevy 1 ton van I had for my business. The idea here was to open the back doors just a couple of inches with the van parked and positioned so I had the correct field of view to the "target". It was my thinking at the time that I could have the barrel inside a few inches and it would muffle the blast report to a dull thud, good theory but I wouldn't advise it. It was something I did only one time (one shot), after that the barrel sticks out a few inches so as to hugely reduce the inside pressure inside the van. I got the impression that any dents would have popped out from the inside.

Let's just say that idea was flawed, a .50 develops a lot of pressure in a closed space and leave it at that.
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Old October 22, 2010, 01:26 PM   #31
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Some of the "shotgun" ammunition in Hubel458's always interesting thread "12 Guage Shotguns from He**" is "more gun" than the .50 BMG and the blunt meplat on those "bullets/slugs" would really do some damage to "soft" targets well beyond the .50 BMG.
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Old October 22, 2010, 01:38 PM   #32
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Yeah, but would they do it at 1000+ yards?

Sort of like "if pigs had wings they could fly".

I guess there's a reason more development goes into accurate bullets than super duper hollow points designed to do terminal damage. The 50 BMG seems to have a certain guaranteed damage level covered as long as you can make the hit.

How come nobody is necking a 50 BMG down to .38 caliber? Ultimate wildcat or what? Flat shooting to 1000 yards.
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Old October 22, 2010, 01:44 PM   #33
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How come nobody is necking a 50 BMG down to .38 caliber? Ultimate wildcat or what? Flat shooting to 1000 yards.
Barrel Burner!
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Old October 22, 2010, 01:47 PM   #34
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My 2 cents
> Does the 50bmg have the power to turn a man into "red mist"
----- Most likely not
> Does it have the power to remove large chunks or nearly tear a man sized target in half
----- Definetly Yes
> Does a bullet exist that has the right terminal performance to actually do the above
----- Possibly (a light for caliber, high veloctiy, fast expanding bullet would be ideal)
> Best chance of seeing it happen
----- A shot that immediately impacts a large bone and continues on a path that travels through a significant amount of additional bone/tissue. As opposed to a "in the front, out the back" type of shot that hits no bones or only a rib.

Last edited by 300magman; October 22, 2010 at 02:42 PM.
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Old October 22, 2010, 02:19 PM   #35
Mike Irwin
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"How come nobody is necking a 50 BMG down to .38 caliber? Ultimate wildcat or what? Flat shooting to 1000 yards."

Such monstrosities have been done in the past.

Years ago I read about a project where a man took a .50 and necked it down to .30 caliber.

Bullets were something along the lines of lathe turned brass of about 300 grains.

The barrel better than 6 feet in length.

I forget the specific ballistics, but they were impressive. And the barrel supposedly lasted 30 shots.
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Old October 22, 2010, 02:37 PM   #36
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Supposedly during WW II the Germans had a very healthy, and almost mystical, fear of the M2 and its capabilities.
Allied artillery holds that crown.


As far as the .50 BMG capabilities. It all depends on the type of ammo being used.

Being a large enough round it comes in all kinds of flavors. From regular Ball, to armor piercing and HE and Incendiary.

For instance, a regular Ball .50BMG will not explode you, but take the same cartridge and fire a HE bullet and it will most definately explode it's target. Read the wiki entry and go to the "Military Cartridge" types and it will list all kinds of .50 BMG flavors.
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Old October 22, 2010, 02:57 PM   #37
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Years ago I read about a project where a man took a .50 and necked it down to .30 caliber.
This is where the SLAP rounds come into play. http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/slap.htm

We had a few cans of these during the initial Iraq invasion in 2003, but using API just made a lot more sense for the targets we came across, and it fed better anyway so the SLAP stayed in the can, unless we wanted something sharp to poke guys when they weren't looking.
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Old October 22, 2010, 03:16 PM   #38
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I don't think that I have had more pleasure shooting another MG!It will always be the pinnacle of inventions............. God bless John Moses Browning.
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Old October 22, 2010, 05:01 PM   #39
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For me the .50BMG was big enough to the point where it was no longer fun to shoot. I love shooting and always thought bigger was better until I shot an M2. While it was fun, the fun was outweighed by the sheer shock of the muzzle blast.

i know there are people out there who love it, to each his own i guess
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Old October 22, 2010, 05:13 PM   #40
Mike Irwin
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"Allied artillery holds that crown."

The Germans also had very capable artillery, in many cases equal to or better than US artillery. US artillery held no special fears for them.

What they did not have, however, was a weapon equivalent to the M2 in size or hitting power.

The closest thing they had was the 13mm machine gun, but that was used only by the Luftwaffe.

In some ways it was not unlike the fear that many US GIs had of the MG 42 and its ferocious rate of fire.

The US military was so concerned about that fear that they put out a special training film on the MG 42 in which they claimed that its "bark was worse than its bite."

Well, I guess so, if you don't worry about the fact that its bite can practically saw you in half in about 2 seconds.
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Old October 22, 2010, 05:23 PM   #41
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I once made the mistake of sneaking a glance at an M2 without my kevler on and my head exploded.....
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Old October 22, 2010, 06:11 PM   #42
IXLR8
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.50 BMG vs various items.

Bowling ball
Bowling pin
coconut
Propane cylinder
Other stuff... You know... The usual.

Youtube .50BMG irresponsible use...
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Old October 22, 2010, 06:26 PM   #43
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During my first tour in Iraq we saw first hand what the .50 cal does to people. I don't need to see number charts, I've seen it and its gruesome. Yes, it dismembers people and then some. I still prefer the MK 19.
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Old October 22, 2010, 06:34 PM   #44
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the tracers go down range in excess of 1000yds and then bounce up into the clouds.

firing an m2 is powerful enough to create a large grin and can make a baptist preacher say 'H*** YEYAHH!!!!!!'
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Old October 22, 2010, 06:46 PM   #45
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One myths I wanna dispell first:

A .50 BMG is not a laser...it drops...alot. It's used at long range, but that's by knowing the range and having good optics It's main point is it holds accuracy and alot of power at long range.

Overall though: it has power...alot of power. But not an end-all, mini-nuke.

A hardened piece of railway iron plate (The plate that rails are staked to, then staked to the tie), would only dent with ball ammo, and API ALMOST...went through it. It's ultra-hard 3/4" steel.

It did alot more "punch" than anything else, but it still didn't fully penetrate.

Also: A antelope shot with one didn't hardly notice... .50 caliber hole going in .50 caliber hole going out. Never expanded and the goat took off, ran out of range, stood around about two minutes then tipped over.

That all said, it's fun, and definately packs more "Oomph" (if that ain't a useless term, over-used by gun people ), than even our .338's, .375's,etc.etc.

P.S. Make sure the area won't light on fire, but API is cool due to the flash on impact
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Old October 22, 2010, 07:02 PM   #46
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Quote:
A hardened piece of railway iron plate (The plate that rails are staked to, then staked to the tie), would only dent with ball ammo, and API ALMOST...went through it. It's ultra-hard 3/4" steel.

It did alot more "punch" than anything else, but it still didn't fully penetrate.
I am curious if that was from one shot or from several
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Old October 22, 2010, 07:52 PM   #47
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A hardened piece of railway iron plate (The plate that rails are staked to, then staked to the tie), would only dent with ball ammo, and API ALMOST...went through it. It's ultra-hard 3/4" steel.

It did alot more "punch" than anything else, but it still didn't fully penetrate.

I am curious if that was from one shot or from several
And at what range????
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Old October 22, 2010, 08:37 PM   #48
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I think your buddy probably watched one of the myriad of "50 cal Sniper kills Taliban" videos on YouTube, which are really rock-chuck hunting videos.

I tried setting some of those jackwagons straight a couple times, even directed them to the original video "Varmint Safari" with little success.

Like this one. (warning, graphic marmot content).

And it you REALLY want to make yourself dumber, read the YouTube comments.
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Old October 22, 2010, 10:45 PM   #49
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The Viet Cong had a healthy respect for the M2. When Ma Deuce spoke, Charlie listened....
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Old October 22, 2010, 10:50 PM   #50
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I've been reading this thread off and on all day.......and I only have 1 Conclusion.




I really want one! lol And I suppose somewhere long enough to shoot it regularly...sigh
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