The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > The North Corral > Black Powder and Cowboy Action Shooting

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old October 13, 2010, 08:32 PM   #1
McPhee
Member
 
Join Date: October 12, 2010
Location: Cortez, CO
Posts: 33
1860 Army 44 vs 1851 Navy 44?

I have a 1851 Navy 44 Pietta in brass from Cabelas. They also have a 1860 Army 44 in steel. The two guns look similar. What are the differences other than the brass vs. steel?

Also the 1860 Army write up at Cabelas says there is a NAVAL battle scene on the cylinder???? Why a Naval scene on an Army pistol????

I am still looking for a steel gun to shoot with the 1851 Navy looks in either 36 or 44.

thanks,
McPhee
McPhee is offline  
Old October 13, 2010, 08:44 PM   #2
Ideal Tool
Junior member
 
Join Date: October 6, 2010
Location: Michigan
Posts: 1,080
Hello, McPhee, Those Italians have taken a few historical liberties as when it comes to arms design. Colt never made the 1851 revolver in .44 and didn't make it in .36 with a brass frame. As far as naval scene, this took place between U.S. forces & Mexican, May 16, 1843. As far as being on "Army" revolver ?? perhaps they didn't want to pay extra expense for new roll die
Perhaps since Sam spent some time before the mast, he had a weakness for naval themes? If I were you, & going to do alot of shooting, I would go with the steel frame. Best of luck!
Ideal Tool is offline  
Old October 13, 2010, 09:55 PM   #3
joe sixgun
Member
 
Join Date: March 22, 2010
Location: west michigan
Posts: 30
those open tops are beautiful aren't they? the steel is definitely stronger but if you don't go for the max loading every time, the brass is good.
keep shootin'!!!!!!!!!!
__________________
DON'T TREAD ON ME !
joe sixgun is offline  
Old October 13, 2010, 10:22 PM   #4
arcticap
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 15, 2005
Location: Central Connecticut
Posts: 2,973
AFAIK, some of the differences between the 2 models include:

1. The Army has a longer grip. However the grip frames from the same manufacturer should interchange.

2. The Army has a round profile barrel while the 1851 Navy's is octagon.

3. The Army has a ratcheting or cammed loading lever while the Navy's simply pivots on a bolt.


For further details and differences:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colt_Army_Model_1860
arcticap is offline  
Old October 13, 2010, 10:29 PM   #5
mykeal
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 8, 2006
Location: Northern Michigan
Posts: 2,757
Quote:
Also the 1860 Army write up at Cabelas says there is a NAVAL battle scene on the cylinder???? Why a Naval scene on an Army pistol????
Simple. It's not an 'Army' pistol. It's an New Model revolver in Army caliber. The Army and Navy designations are contemporary. The roll markings were done to prevent counterfeiting and had nothing to do with who the guns were sold to.
mykeal is offline  
Old October 13, 2010, 10:58 PM   #6
McPhee
Member
 
Join Date: October 12, 2010
Location: Cortez, CO
Posts: 33
I agree

I agree with what the people who responded said.

Cabelas sells an 1851 Navy with round barrel. I bought one for the son-in-law on sale when the octagon barrel model went off sale. Now it is back on sale and I wish I had waited as the octagon barrel is way better looking.

I am interested in the looks of the gun as opposed to having one that is simply a good shooter. Everything I buy has to feel good and look good to me whether it is a gun, a knife, a hammer, a fishing reel, or whatever. If a knife, for example, holds an edge and cuts well, but looks ugly to me, then I won't buy it. Looks is as important to me as function.

So when pondering the dilemma of getting a good shooter in steel that looks good, I was asking about the 1860 Army 44 in steel it was to see if anyone used one and if they held up OK. They are not historically accurate as several pointed out. That is OK with me. I am too old to care. I do not intend to use a $200 gun as a hedge against inflation. I intend to use the gun to have fun.

Thanks for all your answers and help. I appreciate it.

McPhee.

ps. I just ordered the steel 1860 Army instead of the steel 1851 Navy in 36 cal. I am not concerned with saving money on powder and lead. I just want to have fun with the years I have left making some smoke, a big bang and impressing the grandson.
McPhee is offline  
Old October 13, 2010, 11:11 PM   #7
Fingers McGee
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 19, 2008
Location: Missouri
Posts: 1,849
What we now refer to as the 1860 Army was originally marketed as the New Model Holster Pistol of Army caliber. It was the lighter replacement for what was then called the Improved Holster Pistol of Army Caliber - or what we now know as the 3rd model Dragoon.

What we now refer to as the 1851 Navy was variously known as the Ranger, Old Model Navy, Revolving Belt Pistol, Revolving Navy Pistol; the Old Model Belt Pistol of Navy caliber; and in an 1860 ad was called Belt Pistol, Army and Navy.

The Army bought and used as many of the '51 Navies as the Navy did Interestingly enough, the '51s that the Navy bought had blued iron BS/TG while the ones purchased by the Army had silver plated brass BS/TG. You'd think it would have been the opposite since blued iron would rust easily in a salt air environment where silver plated brass wouldn't.
__________________
Fingers (Show Me MO smoke) McGee - AKA Man of Many Colts - Alter ego of Diabolical Ken; SASS Regulator 28564-L-TG; Rangemaster and stage writer extraordinaire; Frontiersman, Pistoleer, NRA Endowment Life, NMLRA, SAF, CCRKBA, STORM 327, SV115; Charter member, Central Ozarks Western Shooters
Cynic: A blackguard whose faulty vision see things as they are, not as they should be. Ambrose Bierce
Fingers McGee is offline  
Old October 14, 2010, 06:27 PM   #8
Ideal Tool
Junior member
 
Join Date: October 6, 2010
Location: Michigan
Posts: 1,080
Colt nomenclature

Hello, Fingers Mcgee, Of course you are righ on with the colt designation for the 1860 army. I have alot of Colt books, but with no one to speak of such things, after awhile one tends to get a bit rusty. I am glad there are fellows out there like yourself to keep us on our toes. Now I find it interesting that the two branches of service, the army and navy really didn't get along that well, and chose their own type of weapons. The navy still clung to the .36 even after ctg. revolvers came out , in their 1851 conversions to .38 Colt, and later, with the double-action models. While the army used .44 Colt conversions and finally the model P .45. Then in the 90's, the army adopted the .Colt .38...Was this a matter of "change" for no other reason than change?...Now where have I heard that before?? And the resulting hot water it got them into! Than they both went to .45, and today, they are both using a nominal .36 (.354) round....And they again find themselves fighting fanatical Muslums! The more things change in this old world, the more they stay the same!
Ideal Tool is offline  
Old October 14, 2010, 06:33 PM   #9
Fingers McGee
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 19, 2008
Location: Missouri
Posts: 1,849
[QUOTE- Ideal Tool]The more things change in this old world, the more they stay the same! [/QUOTE]

Aint that the truth

FM
__________________
Fingers (Show Me MO smoke) McGee - AKA Man of Many Colts - Alter ego of Diabolical Ken; SASS Regulator 28564-L-TG; Rangemaster and stage writer extraordinaire; Frontiersman, Pistoleer, NRA Endowment Life, NMLRA, SAF, CCRKBA, STORM 327, SV115; Charter member, Central Ozarks Western Shooters
Cynic: A blackguard whose faulty vision see things as they are, not as they should be. Ambrose Bierce
Fingers McGee is offline  
Old October 17, 2010, 09:12 AM   #10
madcratebuilder
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 2, 2007
Location: Northern Orygun
Posts: 4,868
Quote:
I have a 1851 Navy 44 Pietta in brass from Cabelas. They also have a 1860 Army 44 in steel. The two guns look similar. What are the differences other than the brass vs. steel?
The two major differences are the grip size and loading lever design.
madcratebuilder is offline  
Old October 17, 2010, 10:46 AM   #11
Doc Hoy
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 24, 2008
Location: Chesapeake, VA
Posts: 4,562
To answer MsPhee's question...

The 1860 design has excellent strength.

I have five revolvers based on that design. A Belgian Centaure, two Colts, an ASP and an ASM. (ASM is brass) I have shot The Belgian, one of the Colts, the ASP and and ASM. They are all a lot of fun to shoot and leave the shooter with a lot of confidence in the pistol.

Of the various Colt clones, I think the 1860/61 is the most attractive pistol.
__________________
Doc

My reading of history convinces me that most bad government results from too much government. Thomas Jefferson
Doc Hoy is offline  
Old October 17, 2010, 07:19 PM   #12
McPhee
Member
 
Join Date: October 12, 2010
Location: Cortez, CO
Posts: 33
I agree Doc

I agree Doc with the beauty of the 1860 Army. I have one arriving from Cabelas tomorrow.
McPhee is offline  
Old October 17, 2010, 08:04 PM   #13
TomADC
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 14, 2009
Posts: 552
Not to hi-jack but I have a pair of 1851's consecutive serial numbers in .36 cal the are Pietta's I'm thinking of parting with would like to sell as a set any idea what a fair price would be?
These are called civilian models due to the backstraps being chromed.
__________________
US Navy Retired,NRA Life Member,SASS member, Time magazine's Person of the Year 2006!
TomADC is offline  
Old October 18, 2010, 08:11 AM   #14
zullo74
Junior member
 
Join Date: August 8, 2009
Posts: 374
Quote:
These are called civilian models due to the backstraps being chromed.
The 'Civilian' models have brass, silver plated backstraps, not chrome.
zullo74 is offline  
Old October 18, 2010, 02:22 PM   #15
TomADC
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 14, 2009
Posts: 552
Zullo74 thanks wasn't sure, here's a picture:

__________________
US Navy Retired,NRA Life Member,SASS member, Time magazine's Person of the Year 2006!
TomADC is offline  
Old October 18, 2010, 08:19 PM   #16
Chuckwagonsam
Junior Member
 
Join Date: October 18, 2010
Posts: 11
1860's

Here's 2 of my 6 1860's. I use these for Cowboy action shooting. I removed the bluing. They have conversion cylinders to shoot 45 colt or Schofield's. Love the 1860 open tops. Great fit in your hand and is considered one of the easiest guns to point and shoot.
Chuckwagonsam is offline  
Old October 19, 2010, 10:47 AM   #17
Fingers McGee
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 19, 2008
Location: Missouri
Posts: 1,849
Good lookin pistols Sam And, welcome to the forum.
__________________
Fingers (Show Me MO smoke) McGee - AKA Man of Many Colts - Alter ego of Diabolical Ken; SASS Regulator 28564-L-TG; Rangemaster and stage writer extraordinaire; Frontiersman, Pistoleer, NRA Endowment Life, NMLRA, SAF, CCRKBA, STORM 327, SV115; Charter member, Central Ozarks Western Shooters
Cynic: A blackguard whose faulty vision see things as they are, not as they should be. Ambrose Bierce
Fingers McGee is offline  
Old October 21, 2010, 08:24 PM   #18
TnRebel
Member
 
Join Date: February 17, 2007
Location: Kingsport, Tn.
Posts: 19
I use Remington #10 percussion caps (pinched slightly together) on my 1860 Colt Army 44 , for re-enacting and I use it to hog hunt.


__________________
I AM A PROUD DESCENDANT OF A CONFEDERATE SOLDIER
SCV Camp1387 and 1680 "Deo Vindice"

SCV=Video http://www.scv.org/video/php

Last edited by TnRebel; October 21, 2010 at 08:32 PM.
TnRebel is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:10 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2014 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.10571 seconds with 7 queries