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Old October 13, 2010, 06:41 PM   #1
Ideal Tool
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What Response?

Hello, I was thinking of two posts at same time, when I titled "What response"
That title should be here. Yesterday, a man was washing new Jeep in driveway, he was approched by male asking if it was for sale..man said no, & stranger pulled out handgun and said "gimmie what you got". Proceded to force home owner inside, carry flat-screen tv out to Jeep & drove off with car! Now I have not had any classes on concealed carry & have not yet gotten license, but I was wondering what your response to something like this would be. The act of car washing would probably give me pause to carry, for not wanting to get gun wet. unless I was in high crime area. Would you have stopped him with a verbal warning as soon as he stepped on property? If he had gun out, wouldn't it be risky to attempt to draw own weapon? What about using hose to spray face in order to allow drawing weapon? Thanks guys!
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Old October 13, 2010, 06:55 PM   #2
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Spraying water in the face of someone pointing a gun at you = Bad Idea.

Personal Protection is not just about being armed, it's about being AWARE of your surroundings and the situations that you could become involved in.

If someone comes down my driveway that I don't know I make sure to have a weapon ready...I usually keep one close at hand anyway.

BUT if it comes down to it I would rather fill out a report with the police for robbery than be shot.
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Old October 13, 2010, 07:24 PM   #3
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Personal Protection is not just about being armed, it's about being AWARE of your surroundings and the situations that you could become involved in.
Very true, I would add that personal protection is doing what ever is necessary to protect yourself. If I had no other weapon available I guess a blast of water to the eyes would shock someone enough to allow me to try and disarm them, this would be a last resort only.
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Old October 13, 2010, 07:44 PM   #4
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Water in the face = Death by bulabula

In all seriousness I'm with the others, I can get the car and tv back via homeowners insurance or the Police. Either way I'm not playing any games when it comes to a gun in my face, I'll go buy the stuff again if I have too. The only reason I carry a gun is to defend my LIFE or the LIVES of my loved ones. Not my toys, not my cars, not my money, not my loved ones stuff our LIVES. Sorry for the caps but it needs to be emphasized.
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Old October 13, 2010, 08:05 PM   #5
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Compliance when you have a gun in your face is a good option IMO, but being forced to go inside your home where the BG can then do whatever he wants to you and your family might not be so good of an option...
Just something to think about
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Old October 13, 2010, 08:21 PM   #6
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Not that I recommend this, but once upon a time in Spokane, in my misspent youth, I made good my escape from a security guard who confronted me with hand on revolver . . . by dousing him with a cup of beer. I was actually expecting to be shot in the back as I ran away, but the old gentleman was either too even-keeled or too surprised to do anything fatal (to me!).

I agree with KLRANGL. If I'm asked for stuff in this situation, I'll surrender it. If the animal wants to frog-march me into the closet, I'm going to resist.
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Old October 13, 2010, 08:24 PM   #7
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[Moderator note:]

Title changed on both threads, but I had to make one up for you on the other one . If it's not sufficient, PM me and I'll change it to whatever (appropriate) one you want.
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Old October 14, 2010, 10:40 AM   #8
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BG in my home / KLRANGL

While I agree I still wouldn't engage him until he was looking for something like that. If he just needed the TV and left afterwards fine. The most important thing to remember in any of these scenerios is that your options for getting away from a dangerous situation do not start and end with blowing the BG apart.
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Old October 14, 2010, 10:47 AM   #9
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If you've already got a gun pointed at you, you are WAAAYYYY behind the reaction curve. You really have very little choice beyond compliance until the BG is either distracted or gives you an entirely unacceptable ultimatum like "turn around and get on your knees".

If you act with force, you must realize that you are almost certainly going to get shot at least once and try to manage the situation so that the bullet at least hits a non-vital area.
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Old October 14, 2010, 10:56 AM   #10
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I'm with KLRANGL - I started reading a little faster when it got to the point that the homeowner was forced inside at gunpoint. Things get real tense then. At that point, you have to try to read the mood and intentions of the BG. If carrying out the TV is enough to get rid of him, fine, but you have to be evaluating his capacity for violence and looking for opportunities to counter him at that point. When he moved the homeowner inside, he moved closer to the homeowner's firearm and gave the homeowner a lot of other options for cover and bringing other objects into play for defense, and at the same time he presumably took one or both of his own arms out of action carrying stuff outside. If the threat of violence seems substantial, one would have to look for opportunities to take action during that sequence. But getting rid of the guy without bloodshed is still the safest option if it looks like a realistic possibility.
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Old October 14, 2010, 11:39 AM   #11
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Hmmm...I would have begun talking to the BG, spun around, put his shooting arm in an arm-bar, broken his arm, then a knee to the face. That's what I would do. Under no circumstances is a BG allowed in my house, even if I must risk my life.
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Old October 14, 2010, 11:56 AM   #12
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Quote:
Under no circumstances is a BG allowed in my house, even if I must risk my life.
I will agree to that statement if loved ones are inside.
If it was just me alone, I think I would consider more variables instead of resorting to absolutes...
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Old October 14, 2010, 12:26 PM   #13
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Me too on the bad guy inside thing.

Figure if he had shot me outside for failure to comply the wife would likely hear it. If she was not home than he would have a tough time dragging my corpse off so she would know too. Either way I am not setting my family up for an ambush.

Someone comes up and asks if my obviously not for sale car is for sale I would likely go to high alert anyway.
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Old October 14, 2010, 12:50 PM   #14
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My question is "Why would one be afraid to get the gun wet"

If a wet gun bothers you, clean and dry it.

I've used "wet guns" in SE Asia, I've shot rifle matches in the rain, I've hunted in snow and rain.

ZERO problems, I clean, dry and oil the rifle afterwords.

Where would we be if our soldiers were afraid to get their guns wet when storming Normady or the Beaches in the South Pacific.

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Old October 14, 2010, 01:14 PM   #15
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For my purposes, I would likely have my Glock, which is what I carry when doing yard work or washing the car. But for the scenario, I left myself unarmed.
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Old October 14, 2010, 02:58 PM   #16
Brian Pfleuger
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thesheepdog
Hmmm...I would have begun talking to the BG, spun around, put his shooting arm in an arm-bar, broken his arm, then a knee to the face. That's what I would do.
All that before he can move his finger a half-inch? Wow. You're quick.
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Old October 14, 2010, 03:52 PM   #17
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All that before he can move his finger a half-inch? Wow. You're quick
In Martial Arts, you'll learn that the human brain can't process speach and movement at the same time, so if you start a diverting conversation, then you can react quickly and disarm the BG, before the BG can react, while still processing your speach.

You'll learn this is Krav-maga, Combat Hapkido and Gracie Jiu Jitsu. Highly recommended to anyone who takes seriously, protecting themselves and loved ones.

Peetzakilla,

In the event the trigger was pulled, that's not as important, it's a matter of how quickly you can bring that muzzle away from you and then do the take down. The gun may go off, but with the adrenaline rush, you're not going to notice the bang; but focusing on taking out the BG.
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Old October 14, 2010, 03:52 PM   #18
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This is why scenarios are touchy subjects. Person A says he'll Krav Maga the gun out of the attackers hands and then person or persons B, C, D etc etc all jump on person A. The bottom line is we're not going to know what we'll do in any given situation until said situation occurs. I for one do not imagine that I'm going to be doing anything more than drawing my weapon and firing enough shots into the assailant to get him to stop. Anything else is absurdly beyond my capabilities which is why I obtained my CPL in the first place.
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Old October 14, 2010, 07:57 PM   #19
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BG forcing me inside...? I don't think it would really matter if loved ones were inside or if it was just me at home. BG has the option of killing you in the privacy of your own home at that point...then waiting until the family gets home.
I would have to agree with the previous poster of no way letting him inside even at the risk of my life. I think we would stand a better chance outside. Forcing a stream of water in his eyes might give me the advantage I would need to grapple with him or retrieve my own weapon. Try keeping your eye on a target while your wife sprays you in the face, come on guys I DARE YOU.

As always we never know what we will actually do until we are in the situation.
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Old October 14, 2010, 08:30 PM   #20
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I'm an old man and have multiple health problems. I don't get myself into any sketchy situations. If someone approaches me that I don't know, I immediately go into ready mode. Since I can't physically fight, I have to be prepared. Otherwise, I don't stand a chance. I know that, and so my awareness is always high. Besides that, I'm unusually careful anyway.

In the situation mentioned by the OP. My hand would have been on my gun the minute the stranger started to approach. I would have told him to stop! If he continued, I would have pulled my gun. Hopefully, I would have beaten him with my gun in hand before he got his out.
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Old October 15, 2010, 02:43 AM   #21
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The problem Archer is that these things are beyond the capability of many people and are over done in the media, therefore some people believe them to be impossible. Mall Ninjas do abound, but they are not nearly as common on gun boards as they used to be (because they get called out). However the existence of mall ninjas and bad movies does not preclude any ordinary person from being trained in MMA or combatives and being perfectly capable of disarming an armed man. In fact such things are common enough that I would say that CHLs need to train for and think through a response to a physical attack.

It is quite possible for many people to have an unarmed response that would be dynamic enough that the attacker would be caught off guard. While quite risky and not the ideal solution it would be better than a lot of the alternatives, such as relying on your attackers mercy.
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Old October 15, 2010, 07:08 AM   #22
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MTT TL I don't believe it's impossible I said that such acts are beyond my capabilities, not everyone elses'. For that reason I choose to carry a handgun.

If a situation came down to life or death I'd be willing to try anything, even if I was unarmed. Hose to the face, Krav Maga you name it I'd try it so that I wouldn't die.

However what I am saying and have been saying is that there is no excuse for the situation that was presented to come to that end. The guy wanted the car and the tv, give them to him and tell him to have a nice day, end of attack before it even began.
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Old October 15, 2010, 07:26 AM   #23
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I was just explaining one of the many reasons why people attack people who talk about using martial arts to defend themselves in the internet. It isn't as though no one uses martial arts.

Strangely when people started posting on the internet about a dozen years ago about using guns for self defense, gun owners faced a lot of the same idiocy. So now we have gun forums. We have martial arts forums for the same reason. It is too bad that some people are so near sighted that they simply don't understand how the world works.
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Old October 15, 2010, 07:31 AM   #24
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People attack people on the internet because it makes them feel better about themselves . In all seriousness I do understand that and it was kind of my original point. I know that some people choose their own bodies over a weapon and I can respect that.
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Old October 15, 2010, 08:12 AM   #25
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I know that some people choose their own bodies over a weapon and I can respect that.
That's the purpose of Combat Martial Arts. There is no a gaurantee that you will be able to pull out your weapon, or even be carrying a weapon for that matter. Especially with today's laws about concealed carry, some places, you CAN'T have a gun with you; your next and only line of defense is the science of Hand-to-Hand Combat.

I have been through a few self defense classes, as well as Combat Hapkido and Karate. And am starting Krav Maga this month.

Personally, I would rather break a few bones, and possibly kill the BG with my bare hands, than shoot him. I am more likely to get sued using a weapon than physical force-even if I am completely in line with the law-take the BG's own gun from him and use it against him; perfect scenario of true and lawful self defense.
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