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Old October 13, 2010, 03:17 PM   #1
Evyl Robot
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Mystery Bayonet

Mods - if this is not the proper place for this thread, would you please move appropriately?

One of my neighbors is interested in selling a bayonet that he inherited. I got roped into the deal, and I'm trying to find out what it is and what it is worth. He says that it is a WWII era dress bayonet, but I can't find anything like it in Google searches. The scabbard seems to be steel painted black with a leather cuff on the extension behind the handle (pardon my lack of terminology).



The blade and all the metal hardware seem to be plated in chrome or nickle.



The blade itself is 11.75-inches from the point to the hilt. It has some scarring along the front edge from some long-forgotten childhood sword fight. The wood scales are brownish with a heavier grain - perhaps a walnut or rosewood?...



There is some corrosion to the plating on the hilt, and a little rust, but I'd say that it's at least 90% still. The latch button for securing it to the lug on the rifle seems to be intact and functional.



It has markings on either side of the blade just above the hilt.



The markings appear to read "US" on one side and "08" on the other.



Any help would be much appreciated. My neighbor is pretty sure it's some kind of treasure. I'm not feeling so hopeful. So what say you? Trash or treasure? I'm kind of looking forward to washing my hands of this particular (and peculiar) project. Thanks in advance!
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Old October 13, 2010, 03:26 PM   #2
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EVYL... probably better if moved to the C&R section ???
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Old October 13, 2010, 03:35 PM   #3
JB3rd
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Looks like an M1905 to me. Perhaps others more knowledgeable will join in soon and confirm.
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Old October 13, 2010, 03:46 PM   #4
amflyer
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I found this site...looks like maybe a dress version of the 1892 Krag-Jorg.

http://arms2armor.com/Bayonets/uskrag1.htm
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Old October 13, 2010, 04:27 PM   #5
Winchester_73
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Can't see the pics, but I will try...

When I'm not collecting guns, I collect bayonets, knives and military antiques. I'm unable to see the pics from this pc, but here goes...

Quote:
I found this site...looks like maybe a dress version of the 1892 Krag-Jorg.
If it looks like that, then thats probably what it is. No other American bayonets really look just like that. We established that its US in origin by the stamp, or at least a repro of a US bayonet with "08" most likely being year of manufacture, 1908. If it is a Krag bayonet, its actually pre WWI not WWII as you were told. The extension thing you speak of behind the handle is commonly called a "frog" but in this case, its more like a belt hook or loop, the difference being that a frog is basically 2 crossed loops, one hold the bayonet while the other one goes horizontal so a belt can be passed through it. If the bayonet was nickeled, its not worth much, perhaps $20 or $30, mostly for the scabbard. Despite their age, these are not rare nor are they as sought after due to the period and the lack of famous battle/war connection that 03 Springfield, 1917 Enfield, Trapdoor, Garand, and Carbine bayonets have. If its some type of dress variation, it could be rare and perhaps the "nickel" finish is original. I'm not familiar with a dress variant of a Krag bayonet, but I suppose its possible.

Quote:
Looks like an M1905 to me. Perhaps others more knowledgeable will join in soon and confirm.
If its a M1905, it was made for the 03 Springfield. It should then be marked "SA" or "RIA" for the 2 armories/arsenals that made those bayonets at the time, Springfield Armory and Rock Island Arsenal. It should also have a wire hook which goes horizontal over the top of the scabbard. The scabbard should be canvas covered with a leather tip or wood (if cover is missing) if it was a 1905. A metal bayonet scabbard indicates a Krag because AFAIK no M1905 or later bayonets had all metal scabbards which were US in origin. Furthermore, 1905 bayonets are 16 in while Krag bayonets are approx 12 in (between 10 and 14, I cant remember). When the M1905 bayonets were shortened for Garands for WWII, they were shortened to 10 in(and were given bakelite grips) - those are known as M1905E1 bayonets. So a 1905 bayonet should not fit in any all metal scabbards unless of course the scabbard is from a European bayonet (very unlikely).
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Old October 13, 2010, 05:30 PM   #6
Chris_B
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Quote:
Looks like an M1905 to me. Perhaps others more knowledgeable will join in soon and confirm.
Definitely not

Only RIA and Springfield made Models of 1905

here is my SA Model of 1905 bayonet, made in 1919, with a WWII scabbard:



that bayonet pictured by Evyl Robot is definitely not trash. But look at the scabbard- that frog is not the USGI WWII type. It's earlier

The bayonet in question appears to be a US M1892 (or 1895? I'm not a Krag expert) Krag Jorgensen Bayonet, although I believe they didn't use the term "M1892" at all, it was "Model of 1892". Compare to this:

http://ddbladeresearch.com/

Looks like a Krag to me, check the sample pages.

plating bayonets and scabbard throats was common for parade equipment

Last edited by Chris_B; October 13, 2010 at 05:37 PM.
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Old October 13, 2010, 09:33 PM   #7
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Krag bayonet.
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Old October 13, 2010, 09:52 PM   #8
dreamweaver
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sure looks like a krag to me, but the markings are wrong the dates only went to 1902 and appear as the full 4 digit. i can't make out what is stamped on the other side.
just my 2c
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Old October 13, 2010, 10:17 PM   #9
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The bayonet and sheath are correct for the U.S. Krag. It appears somebody polished the ever-lovin dickins out of that blade. It's also likely the numbers, if intact, would read "1898."
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Old October 13, 2010, 10:21 PM   #10
dreamweaver
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Quote:
The bayonet and sheath are correct for the U.S. Krag. It appears somebody polished the ever-lovin dickins out of that blade. It's also likely the numbers, if intact, would read "1898."
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i think you're right. i blew up the the pic opposite the date, its stamped "USA" which is correct for the krag. also agree about the polishing. making it "pretty" took away any real value for it
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Old October 13, 2010, 10:38 PM   #11
surbat6
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Not to be a nitpicker (although I am), the blade is stamped "U.S." not "U.S.A."
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Old October 14, 2010, 12:02 AM   #12
James K
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It is a Krag bayonet, technically the Model of 1892. After WWI, the Krag was long out of service, and the rifles were sold off for as little as $2.50 and the bayonets for $.50, with scabbard. Many rifles and bayonets were bought for high school and college color guards, drill teams, and the like, and quite a few were fancied up with chrome or nickel plating (usually chrome - nickel was more costly).

That is one such bayonet. Once there was probably a Krag rifle with its metal parts plated to match, a really snazzy outfit any color guard member would be proud of.

Jim
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Old October 14, 2010, 10:15 AM   #13
Evyl Robot
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Since I've got it here in person, I would agree that somebody polished the snot out of it at some point in time. What appears to me as an "08" is a little iffy, and could very easily be the remainder of what was originally "1898". It's definitely plated in something, as it has fingerprints all the heck over it that would have converted themselves into rust spots if it were carbon in the white. I believe I'll return it to my neighbor and tell him that it's an interesting piece, but I can't help him get any real money out of it. Unless anyone has anything else to add, I'm going to call this one case closed. Thanks to all of you for the usual, expert advice!
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Old October 14, 2010, 07:58 PM   #14
James K
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Whoever plated that bayonet destroyed the collector value. It is an interesting relic of an era when it was considered OK to allow color guards and the like to have real guns and real bayonets. Now, it is considered politically incorrect to even pretend to guard the flag and color guards just march along. Soon, I am sure, any display of the flag in schools will be banned by politicians who hate the flag and the nation and who support terrorism and dictatorship.

Jim
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Old December 13, 2010, 08:38 PM   #15
Howard31
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Plated Bayonet

USMA (West Point ) used the plated dress bayonets from the time they turned in their Rod Bayonet 03's . They used them on theon the )3's and the M1s up until the M1s were replaced by the M14. They were shorter than the 1905 Bayonet and balanced a little better and looked better than than the longer 1905 .
West Points blades were done at RIA and are expertly done with the US and four didgit date being quite crip.Quality wood grips were added with a screw type bolster.
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Old December 13, 2010, 11:39 PM   #16
Bill DeShivs
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The bayonet was plated while disassembled, indicating factory/arsenal plating.
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