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Old October 3, 2010, 08:07 PM   #1
deew69
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I signed a Personal Recongiznace Bond and Apperearance bond 'Without Prejudice'

I got hit with a dui in **, I spent 12 hours in jail and was presented with a PERSONAL RECOGNIZANCE BOND A APPEARANCE BOND, I signed it 'Without Prejudice UCC 1-308' and they accepted it.
Can I still be charged with the dui? Should I still appear in court? Can they still issue a warrant for my arrest.
Does the DA or judge has any recourse, or will they have to dismiss it.
P.S. I never signed or agreed to guilt of the DUI. I am being harrassed here.

Last edited by deew69; October 5, 2010 at 04:57 PM.
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Old October 3, 2010, 08:13 PM   #2
mikejonestkd
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Sorry to hear of your recent troubles, but you need a lawyer, not the opinions of strangers on a forum. get a good lawyer.
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Old October 3, 2010, 08:27 PM   #3
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You should have had these answers BEFORE you signed anything. I agree that you need a good lawyer not internet advice. Good Luck!
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Old October 3, 2010, 08:29 PM   #4
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Did you have a firearm on you at the time?? Or I guess the police had one...just wondering how this was firearm related.
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Old October 4, 2010, 09:24 PM   #5
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OK, I've decided to reopen this thread for a couple of reasons.

1. I think it raises some interesting questions of law.

2. I'd like to see some possible answers about these questions.

3. I'd like to see the OP's explanation as to why he thinks he's being harassed.



Finally, just so we're clear on this, this is the forum description from the forum splash screen:

"Discussions may range from the Second Amendment to other equally important civil rights and the Laws that affect them."

Please note that description.

The Law and Civil Rights forum is not simply limited to questions of firearms law and firearms civil rights. Even if it were, this is an interesting set of circumstances in that in some states a DUI conviction can have a serious impact on an individual's firearms civil rights.

Any questions about the forum description or purpose of the Law and Civil Rights forum?
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Old October 4, 2010, 09:30 PM   #6
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Well...I myself havent had a DUI...mainly because I dont drink alcohol I guess...but.. my older brother has had 9 or 10 of em.... IN my op... Yes you can still be charged... Yes you should appear in court...and yes, they can issue a warrant for failure to appear.... Personal Bond..means they trust you because you havent been in trouble much....so...they let you out on your word alone... that does not mean that you have gotten off scott free...that means your best interests will most likely be in appearing as you signed that you would do... no... its not harassment.
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Old October 4, 2010, 10:42 PM   #7
Aguila Blanca
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deew69
I got hit with a dui in south dakota, I spent 12 hours in jail and was presented with a PERSONAL RECOGNIZANCE BOND A APPEARANCE BOND, I signed it 'Without Prejudice UCC 1-308' and they accepted it.
Can I still be charged with the dui? Should I still appear in court? Can they still issue a warrant for my arrest.
Does the DA or judge has any recourse, or will they have to dismiss it.
P.S. I never signed or agreed to guilt of the DUI. I am being harrassed here.
Disclaimer: I am NOT an attorney, I have never (that I can remember) stayed at a Holiday Inn Express, and I agree that the Internet is not the best place to get legal advice. With that out of the way, let's look at your situation:

1. You got arrested for DUI and you spent 12 hours in the cooler. What was the basis for the arrest? Did you fail a breathalyzer test, or a "walk the center line and touch your finger to your nose" test? The officer must have had SOME probable cause to lock you up. Need more data.

2. You were released on a personal recognizance bond. It isn't a question of "Can I still be charged with the dui? Should I still appear in court? Can they still issue a warrant for my arrest." You ARE charged with DUI. The charge didn't go away when you were released. The personal recognizance bond is like getting out on bail, without having to pay money. It is a PROMISE that you will appear in court. Should you appear? Heck, yes, Skippy. Can they still issue a warrant for your arrest? They can (and will) do so if you fail to show up in court.

3. "Does the DA or judge has any recourse, or will they have to dismiss it." The DA could drop the charges, and the judge could dismiss the charges. But why would they do that? You would have to give them a good reason, and failing to show up is NOT likely to result in a dropped charge or a dismissal. That's just not how it works. No, they do not have to dismiss the charges if you fail to show. What they have to do if you don't show is issue a warrant for your arrest.

4. "I never signed or agreed to guilt of the DUI. I am being harrassed here." No, you didn't admit to anything. That's what the court date is for. You haven't admitted anything and you haven't been convicted, but you ARE still charged with the offense and that won't go away until you show up in court and make your case. At that point, either you are found innocent or you are convicted. The way to think of it is that you are out on bail ... thankfully the amount is low enough that they won't send Dog after you.

5. How are you being harassed? You were arrested and charged, you were released on your own recognizance when they could have made you post actual bail. How is that harassment?
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Old October 5, 2010, 12:05 AM   #8
Frank Ettin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aguila Blanca
Disclaimer: I am NOT an attorney, I have never (that I can remember) stayed at a Holiday Inn Express, and I agree that the Internet is not the best place to get legal advice. With that out of the way, let's look at your situation:

1. You got arrested for DUI and you spent 12 hours in the cooler. What was the basis for the arrest? Did you fail a breathalyzer test, or a "walk the center line and touch your finger to your nose" test? The officer must have had SOME probable cause to lock you up. Need more data.

2. You were released on a personal recognizance bond. It isn't a question of "Can I still be charged with the dui? Should I still appear in court? Can they still issue a warrant for my arrest." You ARE charged with DUI. The charge didn't go away when you were released. The personal recognizance bond is like getting out on bail, without having to pay money. It is a PROMISE that you will appear in court. Should you appear? Heck, yes, Skippy. Can they still issue a warrant for your arrest? They can (and will) do so if you fail to show up in court.

3. "Does the DA or judge has any recourse, or will they have to dismiss it." The DA could drop the charges, and the judge could dismiss the charges. But why would they do that? You would have to give them a good reason, and failing to show up is NOT likely to result in a dropped charge or a dismissal. That's just not how it works. No, they do not have to dismiss the charges if you fail to show. What they have to do if you don't show is issue a warrant for your arrest.

4. "I never signed or agreed to guilt of the DUI. I am being harrassed here." No, you didn't admit to anything. That's what the court date is for. You haven't admitted anything and you haven't been convicted, but you ARE still charged with the offense and that won't go away until you show up in court and make your case. At that point, either you are found innocent or you are convicted. The way to think of it is that you are out on bail ... thankfully the amount is low enough that they won't send Dog after you.

5. How are you being harassed? You were arrested and charged, you were released on your own recognizance when they could have made you post actual bail. How is that harassment?
I've been known to stay at Holiday Inns/Express -- oh, and I am an attorney (I'm not, however, deew69's attorney and offer him no specific advice).

[1] It looks to me like AB has nailed it. Good analysis, AB.

[2] deew69, you have a real life, honest to God, legal problem in the real world. You need to deal with it. You're not going to get that done here in cyberspace. You need a real, live lawyer. If you don't deal with it, it is entirely possible that you will be unhappy with the outcome. IIRC, most jurisdictions don't have a whole lot of sense of humor about DUIs.
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Old October 5, 2010, 12:33 AM   #9
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take care of business; I hear the dog was gonna be up in those parts lookin for more people to give tv appearances that dont meet the bond requirements

Quote:
"Discussions may range from the Second Amendment to other equally important civil rights and the Laws that affect them."
thanx mike- I wish I knew this before deleting my 4th amendment thread the other day before evening opening/posting it
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Old October 5, 2010, 12:40 AM   #10
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Sir, bottom line- you can run but you cant hide. take my advice, it will only get worse if you don't show up. they will allow one rescheduling if you call 2wks in advance and say you'll be at a wedding or something(and then fax letter). You will face this either way, and it will be more $ and worse for you+your record if you don't simply follow the requirements. there is no getting around it.
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Old October 5, 2010, 12:49 AM   #11
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deew69, you were arrested for DUI and placed in a tank to sober up, before being released on your word that you would appear in court to answer the charges that got you arrested.

You have now crossed over from the twilight zone into the real world. [intro freaky music]

Quote:
thanx mike- I wish I knew this before deleting my 4th amendment thread the other day before evening opening/posting it
I know this may sound rude or condescending but....

If people would at least read the various forum descriptions... Right there, out in the open, observable to all.
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Old October 5, 2010, 12:54 AM   #12
therealdeal
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yeah Al I know. I did read a bunch, but I think I missed that one&didn't want to bring up something not concerning firearms like others have been guilty about. I guess that one time, posting before thinking would've been better.
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Old October 5, 2010, 01:03 AM   #13
Frank Ettin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deew69
...I signed it 'Without Prejudice UCC 1-308'...
Oh, and by the way, that is absolutely, 100% meaningless in this context.

[1] The reference UCC 1-308 is to section 1-308 of the Uniform Commercial Code. It reads:

"(a) A party that with explicit reservation of rights performs or promises performance or assents to performance in a manner demanded or offered by the other party does not thereby prejudice the rights reserved. Such words as "without prejudice," "under protest," or the like are sufficient..."

[2] However, the Uniform Commercial Code applies only in connection with commercial transactions. See 1-103 which reads:

"§ 1-103. Construction of [Uniform Commercial Code] to Promote its Purposes and Policies: Applicability of Supplemental Principles of Law.

(a) [The Uniform Commercial Code] must be liberally construed and applied to promote its underlying purposes and policies, which are: (1) to simplify, clarify, and modernize the law governing commercial transactions; (2) to permit the continued expansion of commercial practices through custom, usage, and agreement of the parties; and (3) to make uniform the law among the various jurisdictions.

(b) Unless displaced by the particular provisions of [the Uniform Commercial Code], the principles of law and equity, including the law merchant and the law relative to capacity to contract, principal and agent, estoppel, fraud, misrepresentation, duress, coercion, mistake, bankruptcy, and other validating or invalidating cause supplement its provisions."

[3] Your Personal Recognizance Bond is not part of a commercial transaction.

[4] In any case, all that could mean in this context, is that you will appear as promised but you reserve your rights -- which in this context would mean to plead not guilty and raise any legally cognizable defenses.

[5] Note also, that the Uniform Commercial Code itself is not law. It is a model law. It has been adopted by all the States, but generally each State has made some of its own revisions to it. The UCC will apply in any particular State only in the form actually adopted by that State.

[6] And in any case, the UCC does not affect criminal procedure.
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Old October 5, 2010, 09:23 AM   #14
Bartholomew Roberts
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Quote:
I signed it 'Without Prejudice UCC 1-308' and they accepted it.
As fiddletown explained already, this is nonsense from a legal standpoint. The Uniform Commercial Code (UCC) has nothing to do with being arrested for DUI, despite some wacky theories to the contrary floating around the Internet.

Quote:
I never signed or agreed to guilt of the DUI. I am being harrassed here.
You aren't being harassed. They could have kept you in jail until your hearing. Instead they released you on your promise to appear at the hearing and you get to walk around free until your court date.

I strongly recommend you get a lawyer. It is pretty clear from your post that you are in way over your head. You need a professional to help you with this problem because you and the Internet aren't going to solve it on your own, and may in fact make it worse.
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Old October 5, 2010, 09:59 AM   #15
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Quote:
I strongly recommend you get a lawyer. It is pretty clear from your post that you are in way over your head. You need a professional to help you with this problem because you and the Internet aren't going to solve it on your own, and may in fact make it worse.
Indeed.

Deew69, there is so much you do not kow about this process that I would not feel it would be correct to try to explain it to. You would almost certainly come away from that explanation with misconceptions.

Do you know what an attorney does when he gets a dui? He calls a an attorney who has handled duis in the past and hires that attorney to represent him in court. If that is what someone does even if he has passed the bar, what do you think you should do?

It is likely that for less than $1,000 you will get someone who understands the process and will be attentive to your realistic expectations.

Last edited by zukiphile; October 5, 2010 at 10:08 AM.
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Old October 5, 2010, 10:17 AM   #16
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Has anybody noticed...

... that deew69 hasn't responded to any of the advice given, and that his question was his only post, ever?

Does anybody else smell troll?
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Old October 5, 2010, 10:21 AM   #17
Frank Ettin
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I'm not sure he's a troll. He just appears to have lost interest when there wasn't an immediate huge outpouring of sympathy.

But I do think that any further discussion, especially without his participation, would be a waste of time.

Last edited by Frank Ettin; October 5, 2010 at 10:49 AM.
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Old October 5, 2010, 10:43 AM   #18
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IF you THINK you smell a troll, your course of action is to REPORT the original post.

It is NOT to come into the thread and start yelling troll.

Clear?
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Old October 5, 2010, 10:44 AM   #19
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Or perhaps he took the hint, (here or from a lawyer), and quit publicly posting about the situation before it is dealt with (one way or another). One can hope.

AFM
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Old October 5, 2010, 11:11 AM   #20
MLeake
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Mike Irwin...

... I didn't think I was yelling troll, so much as posing the possibility based on evidence. However, if protocol is to report suspicions, then your guidance is noted, and will be followed.

Cheers,

M
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Old October 5, 2010, 02:37 PM   #21
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"I am being harrassed here."

Is this an episode of the Twilight Zone or the Outer Limits?
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Old October 5, 2010, 02:52 PM   #22
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As Fiddeltown and Bartholomew Roberts have already discussed the UCC defenses is meaningless. In fact the way you cited to the UCC is actually a citation to the code as written by a group of scholars. The UCC was then adopted by most of the states and the actual language and provisions can and do vary widely from state to state. Obviously each state legislature is going to try to adopt language that might favor a specific constituent or compaign contributor. From the way you cited to it I can tell it isn't to the actual law adopted by your state so not only did you add language pertaining to commericial transactions to your criminal appearance bond, you didn't even cite to an actual honest to goodness law.
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Old October 6, 2010, 01:41 PM   #23
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If you EVER intend to even just pass through that state again, you should absolutely get an attorney and appear in court (subject to attorney's advice). I have an idiot friend who can't go through six or seven states now, for very similar, skipping out reasons. I absolutely wouldn't ever take that guy on a road trip. I do think the unresolved legal issues the guy i know has left outstanding have cost him some job opportunities. I also think the guy would sleep better knowing he didn't have any outstanding warrants.

Good luck with the dewie.
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Old October 6, 2010, 05:25 PM   #24
therealdeal
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orangello

orangello,

I have heard of that before but I think this is different. won't they end up "shipping" him to dakota if he gets pulled over for a traffic stop once they see he has a warrant or whenever he ends up getting 'picked up'?

-personally(I might be in the wrong here), but unless he has a bad record, I really don't see the need for a lawyer. it will probably end up the same.

I remember when I got a reckless driving in virginia(messed up law: 80 or more even on a highway posted 70speedlimit is automatically a reckless driving! in massachusetts where I grew up 90something is just a fine). my uncle wanted me to get a lawyer. same thing, just show up. the judge dropped it to a 79mph speeding ticket(Thankfully)
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Last edited by therealdeal; October 6, 2010 at 05:31 PM.
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Old October 6, 2010, 05:42 PM   #25
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Most states will not extradite you a long distance if the crime is a misdemeanor. I have at least 3 or 4 people I have warrants for that I can't go get. If I arrest someone for a DWI and they jump on a plane and go back home to California, odds are they will never face the music.

But, if you should get pulled over and pop up as a File 5 ( wanted person), you will probably be detained until the agency that holds the warrant is contacted and says they will not extradite. Giant pain in the a**. Just go to court.

The best part for me is I have to "make a reasonable effort to serve the warrant". I have been calling one guy in Florida and telling him he needs to come back to CT and turn himself in for the last 4 years. It's a fun phone call.

Me- "Um, Mr. John Doe you need to come back and turn yourself in."
Him- " Ha, ha, ha, go f**k yourself, I ain't ever coming back to CT and you won't come get me."
Me- " Um, Ok, thanks, I need to go f**k myself now, take care, call you in 6 months."
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