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Old October 3, 2010, 08:38 AM   #26
therealdeal
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Quote:
I was wondering, if you are CCW and by coincidence your gun shows by accident, how serious is this?
end my quote

In Virginia, and speaking in legal terms, it's not serious at all unless you are someplace that you aren't supposed to have a firearm at all. Now how people around you may react and how local law enforcement may react can vary widely from area to area.

For example in the Shenandoah Valley it is unlikely that anyone would even bat an eye (unless you were on a college campus or something similar) whereas down in Virginia Beach or in Arlington you might get a far different response.


Quote:


I'm in Virginia, OC is legal if you can see the front, back, and side of the weapon
end my quote

Where in the world did you get this? Open carry in Virginia is not a case of "being legal" (as in someone gave us permission), it's a case of there are no prohibitions against open carry. The only prohibitions are with regard to concealed carry (permit required) and locations where firearms are not permitted (schools, federal buildings, posted property, etc).

So since open carry is not restricted (again, in VA), and since you already have a permit for concealed carry, you are covered.
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thank you. that post really helps because the way your explaining it, no illegal act is even occuring if the weapon shows by accident in virginia. I thought partially concealed could be an issue. Yes, the 3angle thing was told to me many times but it was word of mouth. thats why in my original post I mentioned "It might've changed".

ZESPECTRE, are hospitals legal for CCW?? I have been trying to figure this one out. Virginia is the main concern like my wife's OB apptmts as an example. I am just curious; its no big deal but like I said in another thread- I don't chance it unless I am positive its ok
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Old October 3, 2010, 09:03 AM   #27
ZeSpectre
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ZESPECTRE, are hospitals legal for CCW?
NO.

Although there is no actual state law regarding hospitals they are, without exception, posted and that is one of those cases where the prohibition will be STRICTLY and IMMEDIATELY enforced under the guise of "trespassing".


Good references regarding Va statues and law...
http://www.vsp.state.va.us/Firearms_...Concealed.shtm

http://www.vcdl.org/static/ccw.html
(Prohibited places is listed at the bottom)
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Last edited by ZeSpectre; October 3, 2010 at 09:10 AM.
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Old October 3, 2010, 09:12 AM   #28
therealdeal
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thats good to know. thanx for laying that out for me. I don't take risks w/my CCW unless I am sure, but I still have some learning to do. I thought hospitals were legal and banks weren't. It turns out banks are and hospitals aren't. I don't do too much inside banking, but I am still figuring they're a case by case CCW basis anyways until I learn different?
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Old October 3, 2010, 10:03 AM   #29
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Actually there are a lot of banks where carry (open or concealed) is just fine.

One point to keep in mind (we're talking strictly Virginia here folks) is that there is no statute/law regarding firearms on private property. So if a property is posted "no guns" and you carry there anyway and are noticed then all that can -legally- happen is that you will be told you are "Trespassing" and be asked to leave (unless you are violating some other law). If you do not leave immediately then the charge on your rap sheet will start with "Trespassing" and go from there. (this does not, of course, apply to the restrictions on Federal buidlings, schools, etc. where there are applicable Federal laws).

That is the -legal- ramifications. However in the real world people overreact, officers don't always know the law, private security oversteps their authority, situations escalate and on ad infinitum.

In short if a place is posted I simply recommend that you don't go there if you have a choice, or you obey the sign and disarm if you have to enter (like a hospital).
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Old October 3, 2010, 10:18 AM   #30
Sefner
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Originally Posted by ZeSpectre
Actually there are a lot of banks where carry (open or concealed) is just fine.
In MI OC is legal in banks.

And here is a recent news story about a bank inviting armed customers:

http://www.khou.com/home/Texas-bank-...103891979.html

I kinda wanna play devil's advocate with the while OC-while-doing-yard-work thing. I don't know if that's a very intelligent thing for a few reasons. The first is I wouldn't want to let thug neighbors know I'm a gun owner. They have a very convenient vantage point from which to watch and figure out my schedule from day to day. They know when I'm not home. The last thing I need is for them to break in and try to steal my guns. The second is a legal concern, many would see OCing on your property as "incitement" insteadof de-escalation. A good prosecuting attorney would ask "why didn't you go to the HOA, the police, or just talk to your neighbors and try to figure it out?".

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave85
If you inadvertently show your gun while carrying concealed, and someone sees it and reports you, you could face brandishing charges. The likelihood of this probably varies from jurisdiction to jurisdiction.
To clarify this a little, brandishing in MI has to have two aspects: an unholstered gun, and a "menacing" action. So an inadvertently revealed concealed carry gun is not brandishing, but there are the other two aspects in these situations: 1. the unknowing, probably hysterical citizen that calls in the MWAG call and 2. the overzealous DA who is up for re-election looking to get another gun off the street to add to his commercials.
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Old October 3, 2010, 10:32 AM   #31
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If you inadvertently show your gun while carrying concealed, and someone sees it and reports you, you could face brandishing charges.
There are no such thing as "brandishing charges" in this state.
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Old October 3, 2010, 10:47 AM   #32
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NO.

Although there is no actual state law regarding hospitals they are, without exception, posted and that is one of those cases where the prohibition will be STRICTLY and IMMEDIATELY enforced under the guise of "trespassing".
Same in Ohio. No state law, but they are as far as I know always posted. However, state law does prohibit CCW in, "Institutions for the care of mentally ill persons". Some medical hospitals have at least one floor dedicated to mental diseases. This could get confusing / sticky even if the hospital isn't posted.

Last edited by Hitthespot; October 3, 2010 at 10:58 AM.
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Old October 3, 2010, 11:04 AM   #33
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To clarify this a little, brandishing in MI has to have two aspects: an unholstered gun, and a "menacing" action. So an inadvertently revealed concealed carry gun is not brandishing…
This is a good definition of 'brandishing,' and is generally, I believe, how the current AG sees it. However, there does not appear to be any specific definition laid out in any statute. This leaves it open for interpretation, and the next AG may not be as enlightened. As you point out:
Quote:
…but there are the other two aspects in these situations: 1. the unknowing, probably hysterical citizen that calls in the MWAG call and 2. the overzealous DA who is up for re-election looking to get another gun off the street to add to his commercials
Even with such a competent person in that office, someone charged with brandishing by a local prosecutor so disposed may very well find themselves many thousands of dollars in debt to a lawyer before the charges are rightfully dismissed.
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Old October 3, 2010, 11:52 AM   #34
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therealdeal- it sounds as if you are not familiar with your own state's laws, at all.

This is a rather critical element of successfully carrying, whether open or concealed.

Perhaps you should spend some time and review your state's statutes directly as they are written.

Last edited by AH.74; October 3, 2010 at 12:02 PM.
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Old October 3, 2010, 02:06 PM   #35
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If you inadvertently show your gun while carrying concealed, and someone sees it and reports you, you could face brandishing charges.
Not in Virginia.

http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp...0+cod+18.2-282
Quote:
§ 18.2-282. Pointing, holding, or brandishing firearm, air or gas operated weapon or object similar in appearance; penalty.

A. It shall be unlawful for any person to point, hold or brandish any firearm or any air or gas operated weapon or any object similar in appearance, whether capable of being fired or not, in such manner as to reasonably induce fear in the mind of another or hold a firearm or any air or gas operated weapon in a public place in such a manner as to reasonably induce fear in the mind of another of being shot or injured. However, this section shall not apply to any person engaged in excusable or justifiable self-defense. Persons violating the provisions of this section shall be guilty of a Class 1 misdemeanor or, if the violation occurs upon any public, private or religious elementary, middle or high school, including buildings and grounds or upon public property within 1,000 feet of such school property, he shall be guilty of a Class 6 felony.

B. Any police officer in the performance of his duty, in making an arrest under the provisions of this section, shall not be civilly liable in damages for injuries or death resulting to the person being arrested if he had reason to believe that the person being arrested was pointing, holding, or brandishing such firearm or air or gas operated weapon, or object that was similar in appearance, with intent to induce fear in the mind of another.

C. For purposes of this section, the word "firearm" means any weapon that will or is designed to or may readily be converted to expel single or multiple projectiles by the action of an explosion of a combustible material. The word "ammunition," as used herein, shall mean a cartridge, pellet, ball, missile or projectile adapted for use in a firearm.

(Code 1950, § 18.1-69.2; 1968, c. 513; 1975, cc. 14, 15; 1990, cc. 588, 599; 1992, c. 735; 2003, c. 976; 2005, c. 928.)
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Old October 3, 2010, 06:35 PM   #36
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an unholstered gun, and a "menacing" action. So an inadvertently revealed concealed carry gun is not brandishing…

This is a good definition of 'brandishing,' and is generally, I believe, how the current AG sees it.
It is also how our current governor saw it when she was AG. Pretty insightful, considering how anti-gun she generally is. Hopefully, that bodes well for us with any future AG.
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Old October 3, 2010, 06:57 PM   #37
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Not to worry. Most of the sheeples wonder through life not paying attention to there surroundings. ( condition white ) If any of the folks notice they are most probably fellow CCW.
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Old October 3, 2010, 07:07 PM   #38
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Originally Posted by Don P
Most of the sheeples wonder {sic} through life not paying attention to there {sic} surroundings.
It may just be me, but I find the term "sheeple" to be kinda dehumanizing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Don P
If any of the folks notice they are most probably fellow CCW.
...or cops, or just observant fellow citizens who are on the lookout for criminals or terrorists or other bogeymen.
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Old October 4, 2010, 08:50 AM   #39
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I know here in CT, if you were to be CCW'ing and someone happens to see ANY part of the gun and calls 911, most likely you would be charged with BOP and arrested. Now the crazy part is we are an OPEN CARRY state!? You can 'legally' carry openly or concealed, but all it takes is an anti to call and complain and now your going to jail. The reason being our state statues are not defined on this subject and 'open' to all kinds of interpretation. Were hoping to get that changed via a much friendlier 2nd amendment AG (Martha Dean) this November who has promissed to address this issue. Everyone else reading this thread should no who's pro 2nd amendment running for office in there state/district and VOTE THEM IN!!

Steve
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Old October 4, 2010, 09:00 AM   #40
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It may just be me, but I find the term "sheeple" to be kinda dehumanizing.
No, it's not just you.
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Old October 4, 2010, 09:04 AM   #41
therealdeal
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1776/steve-
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Everyone else reading this thread should no who's pro 2nd amendment running for office in there state/district and VOTE THEM IN!!
I'm in on that one- I will be checking that out sometime this week
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Old October 4, 2010, 09:17 AM   #42
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ProxPilot, be extremely careful about OC in NC. It is technically legal, but one can be charged with "going armed to the terror of the public". It is a foolish and subjective statute. You could walk through town all day long, speak to friends, help old ladies across the street, etc. with no problem. Someone comes along, sees a gun on your belt & freaks out, starts screaming "he's got a gun". Now you are charged because that person was "terrorized". My best understanding is that you are fairly safe on your own property, business or personal. People come onto your property at their own will, to do business. They have a choice not to. I use to see some OC with fishermen at the river, loaded with snakeshot no doubt. Hunters too, out hunting. Should be relativey safe there still. Ask local LEO's too, about circumstances there.
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Old October 4, 2010, 09:27 AM   #43
therealdeal
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NC has always been tough on drivers too. SC jumps on board w/CCW. I know my buddies from NC have said make sure to tell the officer if you get pulled over with a loaded gun in the vehicle or on your person. When we drive to mass from virginia, every state that touches the atlantic ocean(and we drive thru) doesn't require you tell the LEO you have a CCW. When we go south both carolinas its the law. it usually doesn't come up on a traffic ticket, but you should always tell the LEO if its required.

http://www.handgunlaw.us/

every state you click on says in red at top right if you must inform officer before you scroll down to read state's info.

ps-you can click on New York City, USA(for federal laws), puerto rico, marianna islands, quam, Virgin islands, Washington DC, you get the point - lots of good info(also has knife laws)
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Old October 4, 2010, 10:06 AM   #44
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I'd just like to point out that the OP was asking specifically about Virginia.
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Old October 4, 2010, 10:24 AM   #45
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good point zespectre. I dont need to worry about mass ccw/oc laws when we visit the fam. lol! all my buddies are cops now which is another story in itself if you knew some of these guyz growing up. OC is legal there but not friendly like VA.
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Old October 4, 2010, 10:42 AM   #46
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I am thinking about buying a .500 S&W- guy recommended the 8 3/8" barrel so thats what I'm thinking. I went w/the bigboy .44 henry rifle, so the .500 is on standbuy. I might go w/the model 629 too so as to share ammo w/the bigboy. If I get the .500, I might have to name that badboy
Get the .500, just get the 8 3/8', stay away from the 4'……..trust me lol


BTW someone OC a .500 would be just awesome as it gets!
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Old October 4, 2010, 11:42 AM   #47
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It may just be me, but I find the term "sheeple" to be kinda dehumanizing.
It is intended to be.

Folks seem to have given up on any attempt to actually protect themselves from anything.

They behave like sheep and simply cruise through life blissfully unaware of possible dangers until they are occur.

Of course going to far the other way into paranoia is just as bad.
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Old October 4, 2010, 04:22 PM   #48
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I think the point about using the word "sheeple" is that it won't convince anyone... in fact it will probably just aggravate people and make them disagree with us more.

And I tend to agree. There is no reason to deride people that aren't as tuned into their surroundings or chose to defend themselves with a firearm. There is reason to educate them, but I think it might be a better course of action to hold the derision.
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Old October 4, 2010, 11:49 PM   #49
therealdeal
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Get the .500
golden state warrior(joke/I like the team),

I'm paying the extra 50bucks for the converter too. I might go w/the 629 first though. I'd get the dirty harry model 29, but I like stainless steel. I prefer 6" and up unless its CCW like my 2" cia650, but I wouldn't want one too long. 8 3/8 will work but my 629 better @ 7 1/2".

its gonna be great when VA joins VT, AZ, and AK for auotmatic CCW allowed w/no permit. It doesn't effect me except in the fact our state will become safer
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Old October 5, 2010, 12:00 AM   #50
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A. It shall be unlawful for any person to point, hold or brandish any firearm or any air or gas operated weapon or any object similar in appearance, whether capable of being fired or not, in such manner as to reasonably induce fear in the mind of another or hold a firearm or any air or gas operated weapon in a public place in such a manner as to reasonably induce fear in the mind of another of being shot or injured.
Note that what, exactly, constitutes brandishing is not clearly defined in this wording, and brandishing is considered separately from pointing and holding. Also, the threshold of criminality is not knowing or willful action, merely behavior which can "reasonably induce fear in the mind of another." This suggests that, absent a separate statute that does define brandishing, a prosecutor so inclined could easily interpret the statute quoted here to include the negligent display of a firearm as a condition that could "reasonably" be expected to "induce fear in the mind of another."

Intent is introduced in paragraph B:
Quote:
B. Any police officer in the performance of his duty, in making an arrest under the provisions of this section, shall not be civilly liable in damages for injuries or death resulting to the person being arrested if he had reason to believe that the person being arrested was pointing, holding, or brandishing such firearm or air or gas operated weapon, or object that was similar in appearance, with intent to induce fear in the mind of another.
However, here it is a blanket qualifier for pointing, holding and brandishing, and is present only for for indemnification of law enforcement personnel. As such, it does not clearly shed light on where excusable inadvertent flashing ends and criminally threatening brandishing begins.

I accept reports from other members who reside in your state that indicate flashing is not an issue there. In many parts of my state it will would be forgiven as well. However, there are a few notable and population-dense portions where it would be frowned upon with great vigor. I live in one such jurisdiction. I only mean to point out that statutes are not always clear, and their enforcement is subject to art as well as science. Quite often, it takes a test case before clear definitions are drawn. You don't want to be that test case.

I always like to know what is the worst the most unfriendly prosecutor can throw at me under the statute as written. For the most part, it is easy to stay clear of that threat, as it usually involves doing that which is smart and conscientious, anyway (i.e. keeping your concealed handgun concealed).
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Last edited by Dave85; October 5, 2010 at 01:56 PM. Reason: syntax
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