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Old October 1, 2010, 02:52 AM   #1
therealdeal
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National Concealed Carry

Is this ever gonna happen for the law abiding citizen?

I have heard people speak of it, but never even knew the possibility was out there until it was mentioned to me
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Old October 1, 2010, 04:23 AM   #2
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From my understanding of it it has issues with State's rights for regulation. Standards in one state may not be kosher with another, case in point would be a state that requires a shooting test vs one that just performs a background check and hands over the signed card. The idea is that we already have states that agreed to reciprocity with certain states. Utah has the option for a non-resident to qualify for CC in multiple states.

(see this)

For me, looking at this map, I would be covered in the states I would like to visit (or have family) with a Utah permit. (Except New Jersey)
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Old October 1, 2010, 04:51 AM   #3
therealdeal
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I think I heard something about that too, weedwacker. I grew up in Massachusetts, and their CCW is much more difficult to get compared to many other states(they have class a or class b permits- only class a allows CCW). Mass honors nobody else, yet almost every other state that honors another state honors mass.

it would be nice if a federal law for national concealed carry could be achieved by parties meeting in the middle. I know LEOSA took many, many years to 'jump thru the hoops'
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Old October 1, 2010, 04:53 AM   #4
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Moving to L&CR for now.
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Old October 1, 2010, 04:58 AM   #5
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ok thanx Bud
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Old October 1, 2010, 06:47 AM   #6
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It would be a great to see that, but I have doubts if it'll ever happen. I kind of understand the issue of individual state's rights. If some states want to se stricter guidelines than others, and I suppose that is fair. What I think is fair is to abolish may issue states in favor of all states being shall issue states. They would still set the standards on who gets one and who doesn't, so the states wouldn't lose their rights, but perhaps a federal regulation of reciprocracy. Anyone issued a permit in the toughest states, should be able to carry in the easier ones.
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Old October 1, 2010, 06:52 AM   #7
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Happy with Virginias permit and don't want it polluted or dumbed down by the inclusion of California and Illinois etc. Good for quite a few states, and prefer it remain in the hands of my state government. Hopefully Virginia can work more reciprocal deals with more states over time.
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Old October 1, 2010, 07:01 AM   #8
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We already have it, it's called the second amendment. As far as the states rights issue, I think that all of the states have ratified the Constitution. Just me venting, please excuse
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Old October 1, 2010, 07:44 AM   #9
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Under what legal theory does the Fed.Gov have authority to regulate concealed carry permits?

Before you answer, remember that the Feds have no lawful authority to regulate drivers licenses. Also remember that reciprocity of State issued drivers licenses are a State matter.
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Old October 1, 2010, 07:57 AM   #10
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Several good responses here. While, on the surface, some may think it is a "good idea" it really is not. We do not live under a federalist rule. We are a confederation of sovereign united states. Each state is free to make it's own laws independently of the others.
But Sensai said it, our Constitution already gives us that right. Sadly, it has been ignore and battered almost beyond recognition. Remember that at election time.
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Old October 1, 2010, 08:27 AM   #11
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I am going to wager that it will never happen for citizens.

It took until 2004 for the The Law Enforcement Officers Safety Act (LEOSA) (a United States federal law), to be promoted and passed by Pres. Bush so peace officers from any state were allowed to carry outside their home state in all states. Before that was passed there were a few states that I could not carry in, even if I was there on official law enforcement business (go figure). The LEOSA still has many restrictions that it would make sense to remove. For Example: I am allowed to be armed within feet of any government official or foreign head of state (including the US president) but flying off duty while armed, and carrying inside Federal buildings (even some while on-duty), are still no-carry zones for LEO's. Federal military bases are also mostly no-carry areas for LEO's also. Considering that I have these restrictions even though I have 23 consecutive years as a LEO with 12 of those being a department head, I repeat my guess that 50 state concealed carry for citizens will never happen.
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Old October 1, 2010, 08:45 AM   #12
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Didn't they ALMOST pass an all inclusive 50 state CCW law a couple months ago, but it fell a few votes short??
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Old October 1, 2010, 10:57 AM   #13
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Quote:
Didn't they ALMOST pass an all inclusive 50 state CCW law a couple months ago, but it fell a few votes short??
Yes, actually.

The argument about differing standards is a red herring. The different states have no problem accepting each others differing drivers license requirements.

I doubt the fedgov has the authority to mandate or issue a national CCW permit, but they can withhold all federal law enforcement funding from any state that doesn't recognize the permits issued by all other jurisdictions.
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Old October 1, 2010, 11:34 AM   #14
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That will never happen......

That will never happen......and if it did.... I am sure my current rights here is South Carolina will be severly restricted.

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Old October 1, 2010, 11:58 AM   #15
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The Constitution of the United States of America defines what is allowed and what is not allowed if a state is part of the union.

That’s what is legal.

What is reality is a different thing.

The Supreme Court is suppose to rule on legality, not opinion.

What is reality is a different thing.
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Old October 1, 2010, 05:52 PM   #16
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Getting national concealed carry would be a poor trade-off for having the federal government meddle in this and establish its authority.
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Old October 1, 2010, 08:55 PM   #17
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Quote:
Didn't they ALMOST pass an all inclusive 50 state CCW law a couple months ago, but it fell a few votes short??
The Thune amendment would have forced reciprocity between states. Granted, it would be nice to apply the idea of full faith and credit to carry permits, but there could have been a backlash.

Take states like California and New Jersey. Both issue permits, but for the most part, it is very difficult for the average person to get one. Neither state would have any trouble convincing its electorate that their "concealed carry loophole" needs to be closed. Don't want those wacky out-of-towners bringing in their crazy ideas about self defense? Ban civilian carry altogether.

Then residents of those states would be completely out of luck. It just wasn't very well thought out.
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Old October 1, 2010, 09:08 PM   #18
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You might ask yourself just what things the Federal Government have taken over and improved......
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Old October 2, 2010, 12:28 AM   #19
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Quote:
The LEOSA still has many restrictions that it would make sense to remove. For Example: I am allowed to be armed within feet of any government official or foreign head of state (including the US president) but flying off duty while armed, and carrying inside Federal buildings (even some while on-duty), are still no-carry zones for LEO's. Federal military bases are also mostly no-carry areas for LEO's also.
TWOBIT,

I know you are right about not being allowed on the military installations w/weapons or while CCW. However, my buddy flies off duty w/his firearm(I admit I still haven't had the balls to try that even though it hasn't come up yet). He walks in and just tells the ticket person or lady that checks you in that he is an off-duty LEO&is carrying. They take him to the back and he signs a promisary note/form in front of a designated employee(probably security and/or TA or whatever they are called), and he is all set. He has done it like 3 times. Now when LEOSA was a little 'younger' my LT tried that- long story short the CPT was called and instead of saying yeah that isn't a problem he said from what I've been told: "Well, he doesn't need to be flying armed if he is off-duty." Its still a sourspot but a story he likes to tell!(ps- CPT retired and a good guy so I don't need to worry about gettin an asschewin). This all happened before me anyways. I know before we travelled on Amtrak I called and asked if firearms were allowed, and the answer was 'no'. I never brought up the LEOSA and didn't know about the plane thing yet, so I am still unsure about them. Also, worth mentioning: the guy who flies armed also does his banking with his CCW and the times when his shirt popped up(he is a bigger guy), noone ever cares. I still get a little nervous about banks and am unsure- are they legal for LEOSA to CCW?? I totally believe my buddy; he definately does this. I am the type if there is any doubt then I do not attempt it.
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Old October 2, 2010, 12:34 AM   #20
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one more thing: they used to say LEOSA would never happen too.
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Old October 2, 2010, 05:41 AM   #21
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if they forced all states to honor out of state ccw's it could be just like a drivers licence. You honor the states carry laws like you would a speed limit. I think currently if a state won't honor your permit to ccw the state should forced to let you to be able to open carry. I never have gotten how you loose your second amendment right just by crossing a state line. I can't think of any state the takes away any other right just because you don't live there. Imagine loosing your freedom of speech or the right to take the 5th or due process. I am sure if somebody had the guts they could make a pretty good case against a state. In short contact your state reps and tell them your feelings on this. Congress tried to pass a bill a few months ago and it only missed by a few votes...two I think actually. If it came that close in a largely liberal congress its doable if we keep on them it can be passed.
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Old October 2, 2010, 10:07 AM   #22
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Scooby, 2A litigation is in its infancy. Give it a few years and things will get ironed out.

I believe that the courts are going to have to allow open carry in those States where concealed carry is highly regulated. In those States where concealed carry is a simple matter of paying a few bucks and filling out a form, open carry may not gain much legal traction.

It is my hope that while the courts may allow the States to regulate the manner of carry, they will not be able to completely deny the right.

As 2A jurisprudence gains traction, I think you will see more and more States grant reciprocity to CCW permits. It is in their own self-interests to do so, just like they grant reciprocity to drivers licenses from out of State (and that didn't happen overnight, either!).

What I don't want to see is the feds getting involved and setting some (unknown) standard that could be changed at the whim of the Congress. We also don't need another Federal Bureaucracy, to regulate at its whim.
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Old October 2, 2010, 12:39 PM   #23
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Quote:
therealdeal
...Also, worth mentioning: the guy who flies armed also does his banking with his CCW and the times when his shirt popped up(he is a bigger guy), noone ever cares. I still get a little nervous about banks and am unsure- are they legal for LEOSA to CCW?? I totally believe my buddy; he definately does this. I am the type if there is any doubt then I do not attempt it.
In VA, your listed home, bank carry, concealed with a CPP or open without, is perfectly legal, so it would also be for LEOSA. The bank can prohibit weapons like any other private property holder, I do not know how this applies to off-duty officers, normal open or concealed carry persons would have to respect the bank's ban or face trespassing charges.
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Old October 2, 2010, 01:55 PM   #24
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Is this ever gonna happen for the law abiding citizen?
Not likely. And if it did, would we really want the conditions and restrictions that are likely to come with it?

Yes, every state should recognize other states carry permits, just as they do drivers licenses and marriage licenses.

BUT, what about those states (and there are some) that do not have carry permits? Would they be forced to institute a permit system in order to be recognised by the other states? Do we want that?
And thats just the tip of the iceberg, as I see it.
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Old October 5, 2010, 11:56 AM   #25
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The Constitution of the United States of America defines what is allowed and what is not allowed if a state is part of the union.
The COTUS enumerates specific rights but doesn't get specific. Each state has their own constitution which defines and specifies to what extent each right can be exercised without infringing on other rights. Case in point: the Black Panther fiasco with the voter intimidation. He had a billy club brandished in an intimidating manner and it was infringing the right for others to vote due to inciting fear and implying danger in a location that should have been safe to go and express your opinion through the ballot process. I'm not saying it should be illegal to carry a billy club (they come in handy for fighting off dogs while you are on a walk) but that he was doing so in a way that made people think it was impossible to exercise their right and thus was infringing hence illegal.
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