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Old September 28, 2010, 12:10 AM   #26
BIG P
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Had the same thing going on 5years ago tried & tried to talk to the man
even told him I was scared to go in my own yard.Called the Law no use
the dogs have'nt hurt anyone so there is nothing we can do.Well it finally
happend I was clearing limbs in my yard here the two big dogs come & I mean
****** off.ME no gun short pants & tennis shoes & a Machete long story short
the dogs did'nt fair well at all.The neighbor moved shortly after everything is good in the hood. But will never understand why it had to come to that.
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Old September 28, 2010, 12:26 AM   #27
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But will never understand why it had to come to that.
Big P, some people are just irresponsible dog owners.

Last edited by JohnKSa; September 28, 2010 at 12:41 AM. Reason: Deleted Breed specific comments.
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Old September 28, 2010, 12:29 AM   #28
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a small club... for your neighbors beating.
Advocating violence against a person, even in jest, is as sure a way to move a thread down the path to getting closed as advising criminal cruelty against animals. It dances very close to "knowingly and willfully advocating violation of a standing federal or state law (any state)," which is prohibited.

Unfortunately, the topic seems to draw out strong emotions in a lot of people. Some of them very negative. These threads tend to deteriorate quickly as a result. It would be nice if this one were the exception, as poorly managed dogs are a real problem, and questions on how to deal with them are legitimate. They deserve real, thoughtful answers.
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Old September 28, 2010, 01:04 AM   #29
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Pit Bull Gun

Thank you Dave85. I would like to keep this thread on topic. I won't use illegal means to solve the problem, would only make matters worse. It is said that action beats reaction, unfortunately this is the type of situation that we may face on the street with 2 legged predators. I surely would not want to be working underneath my car, unarmed, when approached by them.
Have had several talks with neighbors, nothing has changed. I called the police after being threatened by one person next door, and the second time they came out is when ticket was issued. Talking in a calm, civil manner has not made any difference. I get the "he's just protecting his territory" nonsense in any discussion. I refuse to be a victim, and be mauled or killed because of their recklessness. I am being threatened by something with a will of it's own, and will protect myself if need be, with only the intention of stopping it. If the animal expires, it will be because of it attacking.
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Old September 28, 2010, 01:16 AM   #30
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For some reason my previous post went AWOL.If you have inconsiderate irresponsible neglegent neighbors with pets just keep consistantly calling the AC officer and your local LEO.After awhile they will get tired of it and will solve the matter.Your neighbor already has a history of neglegence regarding his pet[s] so the ball is in your court,go down to the Municipal building and pull all public documents as proof on your behalf when the officials arrive.Retrieve and keep any or all doc's regarding the address each time any city official comes out again.
All this was explained to me in a somewhat simular situation regarding my BloodHound with his head hangin over the fence howling.That constituted being loose and my neighbor complained multiple times in one day,just wish he spoke to me first but I understood his dilema.MY BH now resides in 2 adjoining 12'X10' kennels.
Just keep plugging away using the law in your favor.Hopefully it will be resolved before anything bad happens.If it doesnt then you have a pile of paper work to back you up.
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Old September 28, 2010, 01:18 AM   #31
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First, you need to make written compliants to the police concerning having aggressive dogs next door. Second, get your attorney involved. At least have him draft a letter to the dog owner outlining your concerns. Third, should things go bad and you are forced to defend yourself on your property, notify the police at once. Do not allow the dog owner to remove the dog from your property until after the police have arrived.

My experience is you will need 5 good hits with 00 buck to put down a charging pitbull dragging roughly 20 feet of 3/8" chain.

Good luck with your problem.
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Old September 28, 2010, 01:27 AM   #32
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Bigger holes are generally better, provided you have the skills to make them (i.e. not miss). If you can shoot them well, then .357, .45, or 10mm. If not then go with what you shoot the best.
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Old September 28, 2010, 02:00 AM   #33
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to the OP, this is an interesting post. people love animalsand are opinionated. in my opinon don't even bother trying be friends w/your neighbor anymore. he is not a magician, and if he cares or is a good guy then do the same in return. mind your own business and feel free to open carry or conceal(your choice). open carry not a bad idea but, again, its not your job to assist your neighbor(I am going off the gameplan that he doesn't care about you or your situation- if this isnt the case then the situation is different).

if the dog(s) come at you on your property in attck mode. shoot the animal just like a LEO would if he was called to the house and the dog charged him. you try the weedwacker bit you might end up dogfood. you might not see them coming. getting something on paper is a good idea but dont keep going out of your way and wasting your time. you can shoot a human breaking in your house so trust me you can punch this doggys ticket if he comes at you on your property. gun ordinances mean absolutely nothing and it doesn't matter what neighborhood in america you live in. if the dog attacks you or if a pitbull(s) charge you on your property you can shoot to kill. I think you should also(in my opinion. ps- I love dogs and have two. one is a large crazy choc lab but thats a different story. trust me, you'll be able to get a shot off even after the dog is on you. if not, thats some bad luck. this scenario is possible, but unless you have bad luck or are absolutely petrified of dogs I feel you should be able to aim and shoot. dont go to the ground on the first lunge, if he gets you by the neck you had Better get that round off quick. have a pocket knife as back up and rip his face off if by some small chance you do drop the gun. sorry for all the what ifs. basically, keep it simple, if the dog charges you on your property I feel you should kill it an attacking pitbull should Always been seen as a threat(especially when they're locked up a lot and they get loose). thats why LEO's shoot the animal on site. I wonder if it has past history?
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Old September 28, 2010, 02:41 AM   #34
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loid, also to answer your question: I think whatever caliber and especially weapon feels right to you will work. I like .357's and above but honestly a 38 would be just fine(in my opinion). I also think a .22 would work but I wouldn't go that route(I am just stating that I think when you start shooting the dog any one of these will work--straight from pocket). who knows, maybe said pit will live and become a "changed" neighbor who is more friendly
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Old September 28, 2010, 03:51 AM   #35
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52 year old Janelle Dalson was out jogging early in the morning a couple of Fridays ago in Fairfield, CA, when she was confronted by a horrific situation: 3 huge Pitbull-Bull Mastiff mixed dogs, each weighing about 100 lbs, came running after her, and proceed to viciously attack her. Dalson vainly tried to fight the dogs off with her hands, which then suffered horrific bite wounds. However, the powerful dogs soon overwhelmed her defenses, leaving her helpless.

Dalson's blood curdling screams broke the early morning silence, and reverberated across the neighborhood. First to arrive on the scene was neighbor Gary Paquet, who lost his composure when he described to reporters the horrific sight that he saw. He said "The 3 dogs actually had her entire body lifted off the ground, and they were literally trying to rip her apart."

Paquet had armed himself with his Walther PPK pistol. The largest dog challenged him, and Paquet shot the dog a single time in the head, instantly killing it. However, at that point, Paquet's pistol jammed, and he was thus unable to fire any further shots. Despite his best efforts, he could not get the two other dogs off of Dalson.

At that point, two younger women, one of whom was pregnant, came jogging up the street also. The two remaining dogs immediately took off after them, and they managed to catch pregnant women after she stumbled, and fell down to the ground. They then proceeded to attack her, just as they had done to Dalson. At that point, another neighbor, John Bettencourt, arrived on the scene with a .22 caliber Ruger pistol. He proceeded to shoot the two remaining dogs in their rear legs. Once wounded, the two dogs broke off their attack, and ran away. Fortunately, the pregnant woman only suffered moderate injuries. She was treated at the hospital and released the same day.

A spokeswoman for the Fairfield Police Department noted that if it had not been for the actions of Paquet and Bettencourt, at the very least Dalson would have not survived the attack. While upgraded to fair condition, she remained in the hospital several days after the attack. Sadly, her employer, a local dentist, told reporters that her career as a dental technician is now probably over. He said that the extensive damage done to her skilled hands is simply far too great for her to ever be able to work in her profession again.

The Fairfield Police Department has requested that the Solano County district attorney's office file criminal charges against the dog owners for allowing vicious animals to run free. Civil lawsuits are also expected against the owners. The surviving dogs were destroyed by Humane Animal Services in Vacaville, CA, a few days after the attacks.

What lessons should be learned from this incident? The biggest one that I see is that a gun owner has to absolutely make sure that his weapon is reliable, and will not malfunction on you in a crisis

Here are some news reports about this incident:

http://www.foxreno.com/news/24973101/detail.html

http://fugitive.com/archives/28286


And here is a photo that authorities took of one of the wounded dogs, before it was destroyed. Can you imagine being attacked by not one, but three of these monsters?? (THIS IS FROM A THREAD YESTERDAY BY "LANCEOREGON"- I COPIED AND PASTED THIS POST WHICH WAS ALSO THE 'THREAD STARTER')

THREAD: Walther PPK Jams in Attempt to Save 2 Women from Vicious Attack by 3 Pitbull-Mastiffs
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Old September 28, 2010, 04:13 AM   #36
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I would advise you to seek another solution to the problem, however I don't know the full details of your situation so I will answer your question. As others have mentioned call the proper authorities every time you have a valid reason to, the more you bug them the harder they will be on your neighbors and the quicker the problem will be solved.

Just about anything .22 LR or larger will work. I would keep the gun in the fanny pack or somewhere else where it is accessible by both hands. The reason I say this is that if your fears become reality there are two ways it will happen.

First the dog(s) will become an immediate threat to you (on your property, nothing between you and dog, etc) and will get very close and very loud barking/growling/snapping etc without actually attacking you. If this happens you'll be close enough and will have the time to get off a well aimed shot or two.

Second, the dogs will actually go strait into an attack. If this happens any chance of you drawing, aiming, firing, and hitting the target before the dog gets to you will be nonexistant. Since you don't know which arm the first dog will go for you need to be able to use the weapon with your weak hand. What you may have time to do is present your weak arm as a target. Let the dog bite down on it instead of your strong arm because you are going to get bit anyways so you may as well chose where. Once the dog has your arm, retrieve the weapon with your second, press the muzzle as deep into the dog as you can (while pointed away from yourself) and pull the trigger. NOTE: Most modern semi-auto's will not fire if there is any pressure on the muzzle so know your gun.

To sum it all up here are the simple facts:

Expect to be in a lot of pain and have a lot of damage done to at least one arm or leg.

Shot placement will be key no matter what caliber you choose. So train for this scenario at the range the best you can. Hitting a moving target is really easy in the movies, not so much in real life. Also the risk of you shooting yourself is much greater in this situation so be very carful where your bullet will go.

My personal caliber recommendation would be a .380 Auto or larger most preferably a .40 S&W. Anything that has proven stopping power against a human will work on a dog. .38 Special will be work fine, just get some good JHP's..

And last but not least: If your first shot doesn't kill the dog you can expect one of two things. The dog will flee, or it will FIGHT, and I mean he will fight harder and more violently than he had been before he was injured. So keep shooting until the animal isn't moving.

I hope this helps, and I really hope you and your neighbors can find a different solution to the problem.
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Old September 28, 2010, 04:55 AM   #37
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Pitbulls (or any dog) cannot "lock" their jaws.

The problem is the owners NOT the dogs.
That's kind of a moot point when a dog is chomping on you

.22's are great for groundhogs & racoons but I wouldn't trust anything smaller than a 9mm fmj on a pitbull. They have thick skulls, & lots of muscle.
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Old September 28, 2010, 07:27 AM   #38
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This kind of situation is what happens when back yard breeders breed 2 unstable dogs for profit only, not all pits are bad dogs.

Ok now on to the post, If im in a situation that i think might involve mean dogs, and ones who have been known to take bullets to the head and have them deflect off, i carry a .38 spc in a 4" revolver, with 158grn hardcast lswc at +P velocity. Thats gonna penetrate anything that dog can throw at me.

Maybe the 130grain metal case rounds from remington. They are fmj, but have a flat point similar to the lswc that i carry. Infact the flatpoint is nearly as broad as mine are.
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Old September 28, 2010, 07:52 AM   #39
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I believe in the adage about the best way to kill your enemy is to make him your friend.

I also know that many dogs will bark, . . . chew furniture, . . . growl, . . . and otherwise act up for attention, . . . kinda like some of us when we were kids .

First thing I would do is get a box of doggie treats, . . . put on my quietest and most "That's a good puppy" voice, . . . and go to the fence. Talk to them, and try to get any good reaction from them, . . . reward it when you do, . . . and if it takes 10 or 15 minutes to get there, . . . don't get impatient.

You just may make 3 friends. If you don't you will be out at the worst 3 or 4 boxes of doggie treats.

Poor owners can be replaced easily and quickly with many dogs in their emotions, . . . and if you become the "good owner" who just happens to live on the other side of the fence, . . . that's a good thing.

May God bless,
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Old September 28, 2010, 08:40 AM   #40
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Dogs

Good advice from Dwight. I'd be armed and ready but it shouldn't take long to make friends with the dogs even if their owner is jerk. I've had a similar experience.
Years ago the single lady who lived across the street from me had a pit that she kept chained in front of her house 24/7. The dog wasn't aggressive but he barked ALL NIGHT LONG, keeping my wife awake (if momma ain't happy, ain't nobody happy) I tried talking to her, she actually told me that if she brought "Boswell" into the house then he would keep her awake!
I called the sheriff twice, both times when they knocked on the door in the middle of the night she didn't answer and the simply left, doing nothing.
I got a slingshot, when he barked in the middle of the night I went into my yard and pelted Boswell on the butt with a ball bearing, I only had to hit him once on two consecutive nights, then a couple of times when he was barking I went into my front yard he would see me and then go lay down. Within 4 or 5 days I had trained Boswell not to bark at night. I felt sorry for him, poor guy was neglected. I often refilled his water bowel on hot days.
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Old September 28, 2010, 09:28 AM   #41
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Raccoons are good for something. They make great pets when idiot neighbor has bad dogs. Now what nice doggie can resist jumping that fence to play with my pet raccoon? BLAM! 12 gauge.

Seriously, I love dogs - so long as they are silent and stay on their side of the fence.
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Old September 28, 2010, 09:42 AM   #42
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A gun is your last option. Don't put it first on your list of things to think about. Solving the problem in a neighborly way is the first course of action.
+1 on this. I am a dog lover and I would hate to have to end a dogs life, knowing in my heart that another option had a chance at working.

I'm not saying when he comes jumping across the fence into your yard that you should try and give him kisses . . . I guess I'm just saying to make absolutely sure that you have exhausted all avenues before taking leathal action. This will protect you legally and you will feel better about yourself at the end of the day.
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Old September 28, 2010, 10:28 AM   #43
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Pit Bull Gun

I have already tried the doggie treat approach. While discussing the situation with the owner, have asked and received permission to give the dogs some treats. This did not stop the behaviour. Have also tried getting them used to me while they are on a leash being walked by the owner, outside of their yard. Didn't work. Have tried every possible avenue to become friendly with them. Back to gun/caliber selection.
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Old September 28, 2010, 10:49 AM   #44
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I hate to suggest a Taurus product but I think this is the perfect use for a judge.
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Old September 28, 2010, 10:55 AM   #45
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Option pertaining to OP:
I'd almost rather have a knife on me. Not a folder but a fixed blade big BAMF piece of metal. Like my BK7, or my bushman which weights next to nothing. Personally, caliber doesn't seem that big a deal with pitbulls but bigger holes generally work better. A little .357 snubbie would be good. Won't have the jamming issue the PPK had in the story posted above. If you want the high capacity of an auto, I'd lean towards a .40 preferably or 9mm at minimum. Just expect that if you DO get attacked that they will be on you before your first shot so expect to be bit and mauled. With a snubby treat it as an extension of your hand and wield it like a sword, get it close before you unleash fury. Run drills where you face an angry dog and escalate to multiple dogs. Since you have the fence you will probably see them coming first and it takes a bit to get over that barrier.

Better option:
Maybe you should look into getting a wooden slat fence with slats made of 1x4's and about 5.5 to 6 feet high. If you make it where there isn't a gap between the boards the dogs can't see you and will not have as much incentive to act up nor iwll they be as intimidating.
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Old September 28, 2010, 11:08 AM   #46
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Have these dogs been able to get out of their yard or restraints previously? How large is the fence that they are behind? Do you share the same fence as your neighbors?

The first thing I would do (if possible) is erect a larger fence around my property. As you mentioned action always beats reaction… if they are able to get out of their yard at least they will not be able to get into yours.

As-far-as caliber goes, I agree with what a few others have said. Anything that will stop a man will stop a dog. If you are going to carry a firearm I would also suggest carrying a non-lethal weapon as well like pepper-spray or the likes.

Also, please take some sort of firearm safety and training course. I am not sure what your background and experience level is, but there is always more to be learned, even if it is just going to be refresher course.
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Old September 28, 2010, 11:44 AM   #47
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You could get away with 22LR,
Don't count on it. I posted elsewhere about having to shoot a pit bull. I shot him twice with a Ruger 10/22. He ran away but it did not kill him. There is no promise that a pit bull will run. In fact that was the first time I have ever seen a pit run from pain.

I would consider .38spl+P SJSP, SJHP, or HP rounds. If you want to go with .38spl I would use Buffalo Bore 158gr soft lead LSWC-HC.
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Old September 28, 2010, 12:08 PM   #48
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As much as I love revolvers, I think this calls for a semi-auto. There's 3 of them, they move fast, and you're going to have some misses. Six shots on 3 fast moving targets is no good. Glock in 9mm or above or ruger P series in 9mm or above. Both easy to break down & clean and you won't have any guilt about beating them up working.
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Old September 28, 2010, 12:25 PM   #49
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Reply from a dog owner

First, you need to talk with your neighbor. Find out if those dogs area actually mean, or if they just like to bark and jump at the fence.

If they are not mean, get your neighbor to introduce you to the dogs. That may get them to chill out a bit when you are outside. (Then again, it might not. A buddy of mine has some Borzois and Blue Heelers that lick my hand in the house, but bark their fool heads off at me when I walk up the drive. Come to think of it, my dogs do the same to my friends...)

If your neighbor says they are mean, let him know that you have concerns about the fence being high enough / solid enough etc to contain the dogs.

DO NOT use a spray or shock device on the dogs if they are not attacking you. (Owner's reaction if he sees this will be negative) DO NOT throw food to the dogs if you don't have the owner's ok. (Note: burglars will do this to condition the dogs to ignore their unlawful entry; sickos will do this to poison the dogs; do you want to be taken for either type?)

I'm a laid back, pleasant person, according to people who know me. I tend to be very reasonable. If some jogger used a shock or pain device on my dog because he didn't like barking, I'd be very tempted to introduce said jogger to the business end of my fists.

Tempted, but I hope I'd have the self control to simply report his nervous Nelly a## to the police for assaulting my animals. That might depend on what I saw happen, and how badly it seemed to affect my dog.

If my dogs go into your yard, the situation changes. But if they are in my yard, barking or not, jumping or not, leave them be - especially if you haven't talked to me about your perception of the situation.

There are some truly mean, vicious dogs out there. But most of them aren't that likely to actually come over a fence at you.

To the jogger who shocked the GS - if he regularly jumped high enough to clear the fence, and apparently could have done so at will, don't you find it odd that he never did?

You're lucky that wasn't my dog...
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Old September 28, 2010, 12:28 PM   #50
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Any decent SD round will work fine.

Many dogs are big and bad behind a fence, as a defense mechanism. Im not saying they wouldnt do anything or not to be prepared but just keep that in mind in general. Not to mention, my dog (ScHIII for you dog trainers) barks "viciously," at anyone near his fence/garage/car but away from his territory is very friendly and playful.
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