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Old September 27, 2010, 09:04 PM   #1
Loid Bridjes
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Pit Bull Gun

I have next door to me 3 very aggressive dogs, 1 pitbull and 2 pitbull mixes. When outside they bark at everything and anyone that moves. Have spoken with neighbor regarding this situation, and to make a long story short, have gotten nowhere. Owner was ticketed for barking dog. Only thing separating me from them when doing work around the house outside is a normal height chain link fence. Several places in my yard when mowing yard, cutting brush, etc. I'm at times 5 feet away from growling, teeth bearing dogs who are jumping up on the fence. Have had one of them climb half way over before. I've seen neighbor chasing the pitbull when it's gotten loose. Please, not attempting to flame certain dogs, this is just the way it is. No comments regarding dog choice or training are needed. Some folks won't change their behavior even after getting a dose of financial reality from a court.
Anyway, the purpose of this post is to ask the question, "what is a very good/best handgun and caliber for this situation?" I've been concealing in a fanny pack while doing yard work, and have come to the conclusion that it is way too slow in getting to (dedicated gun fanny pack with zipper pull and extended fob for zipper). It does keep the gun clean. However, time will be very short, indeed, if needed. I want to open carry on the hip, in all kinds of weather, and it will be sweat on, getting scrapped up, going through bushes, rain, snow, and general yard debris. J frame Smith fits hand well, although am also comfortable with larger frame revolvers/autos. Openly slung shotgun/rifle not practical in this situation.
Not quite sure about 38 Special Std., +P or 9mm, hardly leaves me feeling all warm and cozy. Let's hear your thoughts....

<<<Note to those who wish to respond. Please do not attempt to turn this into a discussion of the relative merits of various dog breeds. That is off topic on this forum. Thanks, JohnKSa>>>

Last edited by JohnKSa; September 28, 2010 at 12:12 AM. Reason: Added Note
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Old September 27, 2010, 09:11 PM   #2
Jimmy10mm
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If open carry is an option my 10mm Glock 20 would be on my hip with 15 rounds in the mag. Might also act as a deterrent to the irresponsible owner of those dogs. He sees that firearm on your hip he may think better of leaving them run loose on his property and find a way to restrain his animals.
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Old September 27, 2010, 09:15 PM   #3
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First, without getting long on the dog type issue, what makes Pit Bulls dangerous is that they are normally not afraid of anything and will not stop unless they are hit in a vital area.

The rounds you mention are OK. 38 spl. +P , 9mm Luger, etc will do the job. stopping aggressive animals is more about hitting their vital areas than the caliber. Heart and head works best. Lung shots can be effective but might take a while to have effect. My normal carry is a .45ACP, but you know what they say....a hit with a .38 spl is better than a miss with a .45.

Just make sure you practice and can hit with your pistol of choice.
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Old September 27, 2010, 09:25 PM   #4
.40cal
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Before the masses start bashing the Pit Bull breed ( and no, I'm not the owner of a Pit , I have Dobe) it doesnt matter what kind of dog it is. It may be a tea cup yorkie but if you feel a real threat on your property, you should react accordingly.

I would like to think that this would be one of those senarios that the Judge was made for. Alternate buckshot with 45LC and you have a nice dog gun. That being said, what you have should be plenty. 38 special / 9mm - Both have plenty of velocity / energy to stop an attack on such a thin skinned animal. If the dog attacks then you will more than likely be less than 15ft away from it.

Maybe you should have a talk with him and let him know how you feel. If they ever get out you will have to react. End of story - now the ball is in his court
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Old September 27, 2010, 09:28 PM   #5
Straightshooter629
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I'm not going to start a "brand debate", but I will give my idea of the right gun. I would suggest a stainless steel, 4'', 6-shot .357. SS will hold up to sweat and moisture better than blued. I prefer rubber grips, but that's just my preference, but they wil give you better grip under moist conditions, like sweating while doing the yard work and are not affecting as much by moisture as wood grips. The 4" barrell length will give you good sight radius and still be easy to holster if you decide to use it for concealed carry. I'm partial to .357 for the indisputable stopping power but allows you to use .38 spl. ammo for range use. IMHO, this is your best all-around set-up.
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Old September 27, 2010, 09:40 PM   #6
Flint Ridge
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First Loid Bridjes - welcome aboard, sorry the circumstances of your post were not better. Wonderful lady next door to me seems to have gotten a new tat'd up biker boyfriend with one of these as well. We've already met face to face about his dog being in my fenced yard with my dogs and kids and it was made exceptionally clear to him how that would work out moving forward, it is now kept inside. Kids have standing order to go inside if they have it out - PERIOD.

You're getting various thoughts already, carry and I mean always carry, what you are good with. You could get away with 22LR, but why not go to 38spl, 9 mm or so. I don't think you need anything huge and chances are you will never have the issue, but if you do it will probably be chewing on your arm or leg before you know it. Therefore you may want two guns, in case you lose one or it is on the wrong side. If one dog is on you, from your story you will probably have 3. Capacity may also be a concern. Dogs are small and fast, I'm neither.

I'd rather my neighbor have a fully operational hand grenade, at least that you have to pull the pin, the dogs, you never know.

Good luck
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Old September 27, 2010, 09:46 PM   #7
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Nobody was ever brutally barked to death. You're near their property. They are
giving you a verbal warning not to cross the fence. You have a weedwacker in hand. If you can't stop a dog that has to jump a fence with a 5ft metal poll with 2000rpm spinning blades/cord you're not going to be able to draw and fire fast enough to hit a dog running full speed at you.

If the dogs are human aggressive then you need to report the behavior to the authorities. Should you shoot the dogs without SOLID proof that they were
attacking you, expect ALOT of trouble.
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Old September 27, 2010, 09:48 PM   #8
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+1 to 40cal for emphasizing the YOUR property part.
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Old September 27, 2010, 09:56 PM   #9
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IF it must be done, a .40 will do it just fine. Trust me on this.
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Old September 27, 2010, 09:58 PM   #10
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Baseball bat
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Old September 27, 2010, 10:16 PM   #11
cougar gt-e
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If a pit bull is attacking you, expect to have your left arm chomped and ripped to bloody pulp while you pull your pistol with your right arm. You'd best hope that you get the gun out before the other 2 dogs start to attack your crotch and throat simultaneously. It's what they do, expect it.
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Old September 27, 2010, 10:17 PM   #12
Big Bill
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What are the legalities of firing a weapon in your municipality? I'd contact the police/sheriff and ask them about your choices. Before I'd resort to using a gun, I'd try some bear spray; a very sharp machete; and a call to 911. You might also try an electric fence like they use for cattle. Run it right along next to the chain link and when they hit their side and push it into your electrified one they get a shock.

Last edited by JohnKSa; September 28, 2010 at 12:14 AM. Reason: Deleted response to deleted post.
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Old September 27, 2010, 10:19 PM   #13
slammedsi
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i didn't bother to read the other reply. To me anything would work short of a 38 special. My preference would be a 45acp or if a revolver is your cup of tea, then a 357 mag.. hell i might even open carry a 44mag but to me that would be way over kill for a dog of any bread.
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Old September 27, 2010, 10:20 PM   #14
TXAZ
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Welcome Loid Bridjes - Non-Kinetic solution?

Welcome Loid.

At the risk of bringing the wrath of TFL readers for proffering a (non-kinetic) weapon solution, I would ask and answer a different question than your "what is a very good/best handgun and caliber for this situation?": I'd ask, "what solutions exist to address this situation?" You implied the owners are not likely to help. Open carry of a pistol (or a .50BMG for that matter) is not likely to make much of an impression on the dogs themselves, and may anger the neighbor into retaliatory actions.

I'd submit there may be a non-gun training solution that turns the table on the dogs. I used to jog by a yard with a similar low fence and a German Shepherd behind it. The dog was pretty intimidating, jumping up high enough to clear the fence. I finally got one of the higher powered 'dog dazer', and used it on the dog when I ran by. It was quite effective. After a few times he would bark from across the yard, not approaching me. After a several weeks I didn't even have to carry the device, he would move away quickly.

I've also heard of people using diluted ammonia or vinegar in a squeeze / spray bottle, or pepper spray, but have not personally used either on a dog.

My point is you may be able to condition the animals to move away from you when you approach your common fence. You show up, they back off.
There are also some PIR activated water sprayers that set off the sprinkler when an animal walks past. I've seen this in "Sky Mall" magazine on the airplanes.

Here is a link that may help: http://www.amazing1.com/ultra.htm
Finally, I've seen a much larger (and expensive) acoustic "area denial weapons" (my term) that pump out a very annoying 120+dB ultrasonic warble that may encourage animals to stay away from your side of their yard. They have one at Metro Center Subway station in Washington DC that's at a slightly lower frequency to ward off youngsters... Go figure.


Good luck and welcome!


(I have no financial interest in dog dazer or the link above products.)

Last edited by TXAZ; September 27, 2010 at 10:44 PM.
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Old September 27, 2010, 10:30 PM   #15
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Loid Bridjes, there is dog specific pepper spray. It is easier to deploy than a handgun.

If you do decide that lethal force is the way to go, document everything starting now. Talk with your neighbor and make a formal complaint.
You want the authorities to know that you made an honest effort to address the situation before you used deadly force.

Last edited by JohnKSa; September 28, 2010 at 12:07 AM. Reason: Deleted response to deleted post.
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Old September 27, 2010, 10:38 PM   #16
.40cal
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Quote:
You have a weedwacker in hand. If you can't stop a dog that has to jump a fence with a 5ft metal poll with 2000rpm spinning blades/cord you're not going to be able to draw and fire fast enough to hit a dog running full speed at you.
Yes. Use what you have on hand. You could do alot of damage to just about any attacker with something a simple as a weed eater.

Once, my neighbor was hired to put up some vinyl siding for a customer and when he arrived on the job there was a large rottewieller really angry that he was there. The guy who owned the house and the dog had the nerve to say " watch out, he''ll bite " with out even putting him up. The situation did not end well. When the dog tried to bite him he smacked him in the head with his hammer. The dog died almost immediately and my neighbor lost the job.

My point is the same. By the time you can draw your gun, you may already have the dog on you.
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Old September 27, 2010, 10:39 PM   #17
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From personal experience as a cable disconnector I had to deal with a lot of dogs. Some of them very large, very agressive, and they were trying to defend thier territory. I found postal dog spray to work quite well. Saber pepper spray works well too. Due to the fact that I was on someone elses property when working drawing my weapon was not an option. In 2 years I only had to spray 2 dogs, and both times the spray worked very well.
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Old September 27, 2010, 10:41 PM   #18
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Loid, Are you sure we are'nt neighbors? I had a neighbor with 3 Pitbulls. I couldnt go outside, mow the lawn, etc without the damn things trying to get me. One day I called the Sheriffs dept 5 times about dogs and owner to no avail. I contacted the Sheriff himself and he told me that if the dogs came to my yard and If I felt threatened. "KILL THEM". So one day as I mowed the lawn one came running and attacked my pushmower. I took a Brick and WHAM upside his head. While he was yelping and barking here comes another. I tried to run but he nailed me right on the azz. Hurts like Hell and ****** me off. I got the dog to let go off my Butt Cheeks by pumping three 9mm rounds into his or her ribcage. Yes I risked shooting myself in the azz. But have you ever had a Pitbull locked on to your Buttocks? HURTS LIKE HELL!
So the moral of the story is....... "Shoot first ask questions later"! I prefer anything with 10+ rounds.
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Old September 27, 2010, 10:44 PM   #19
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I was doing EOD standby for a drug search when this pit looking dog came after me. Any way I drew and hit him in the chest, about 3 inches below the neck, He summer saulted about there times and was DOA when he stopped.
Don't know why, I was just standing around, others were doing the entry They had shotguns so I guess he figured I was an easy target.

I was useing 150 Gn Cast SWCs out of a 4 inch Model 28. I've killed moose with the same load and gun, don't see how Pits are much tougher then moose.

Only other dog I killed on duty was a suspected rabid dog that bit a kid. But that was at 235 yards with a C-S rifle so it dont count.
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Old September 27, 2010, 10:46 PM   #20
roy reali
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Bark Stopper

Here is great bark stopper for those of you that have all night barkers next door. Take a piece of bread and coat with a thick slab of peanut butter. Throw it over the fence. The dog will try to eat. The peanut butter will make the dog unable to bark for a long, long time. No harm to the animal and you get good night sleep.
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Old September 27, 2010, 11:01 PM   #21
EdInk
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Pitbulls (or any dog) cannot "lock" their jaws.

The problem is the owners NOT the dogs.
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Last edited by JohnKSa; September 28, 2010 at 12:42 AM. Reason: Deleted response to deleted post & breed specific comments.
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Old September 27, 2010, 11:02 PM   #22
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"The best way to destroy an enemy is to make him a friend."
—Abraham Lincoln

A baseball bat might be woefully ineffectual against a determined pit bull, especially if it already has an arm. Then there's the problem of finding good leather for it.

Have you talked to the neighbor? Having lived next to owners of breeds with a reputation for aggression (including pit bulls), and having owned a sweet and friendly but ever-alert doberman, I can tell you that many properly sociable dogs sound terrifying on the other side of a fence. They're bred for that. I'm not saying that this is the case with your neighbor's dogs, but it is worth a trip next door to see if you can get introduced to the dogs. A gun is your last option. Don't put it first on your list of things to think about. Solving the problem in a neighborly way is the first course of action.

If you find them to be well mannered, even friendly, they very well may (and probably will) still bark at you, but your mind will be at ease that they are not going to kill you. You may even gain some power to quiet them.

If you find them to be dangerous, or the neighbor is not receptive, and continues to allow them to be a nuisance to you, get the authorities involved, and start carrying the revolver* openly when doing yard work. It's legal, allows the quickest access, and has the added benefit of tacitly communicating to your neighbor how seriously you view the problem. Don't tell him you are going to start carrying your gun, just do it. The last thing you want is to say anything he could misconstrue as a threat.

I would also caution you to bear in mind that, if you use any kind of device, electrical, chemical, or otherwise on the dog while it is still on the neighbor's side of the fence, you are likely to be seen as the one who has transgressed in the eyes of the law. And quite possibly for good reason.

* The revolver is a better choice for the contact distances of a dog attack.
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Last edited by JohnKSa; September 28, 2010 at 12:13 AM. Reason: Deleted response to deleted post.
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Old September 27, 2010, 11:08 PM   #23
EdInk
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Good advice from Roy.
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Old September 28, 2010, 12:00 AM   #24
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Big Bill has some of the best suggestions, in my opinion.

If you have to resort to a gun, then anything that is effective against humans will be effective against pit bulls. Whatever you end up using, stainless or not, make sure that it's protected against corrosion by keeping it clean and oiled. Perhaps something like the following would help:

http://www.thewilderness.com/storepi...arent=171&pg=1
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Old September 28, 2010, 12:04 AM   #25
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a small club... for your neighbors beating.
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