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Old September 27, 2010, 06:29 PM   #1
Blackops_2
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Magpul Art of the Dynamic Shotgun.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1XCv0X6SqUg

Makes me want a tactical shotgun.
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Old September 27, 2010, 06:45 PM   #2
rjrivero
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Magpul puts out GOOD STUFF.....That teaser got me jonesing for a shotgun course!!
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Old September 27, 2010, 09:18 PM   #3
Blackops_2
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You me both. This summer i bought my firs Upper for my AR planning on taking art of the tactical carbine in a couple of years.
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Old September 28, 2010, 08:52 AM   #4
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I've always hated shotgun training. It just makes me appreciate the fighting carbine that much more.
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Old September 28, 2010, 12:41 PM   #5
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I can see that as well. I can't honestly say i would think it would be a blast firing 4-500 rounds of 12 ga, buckshot and slugs. Especially it being tactical shotguns are either inertia driven or pump. Don't get me wrong a 12Ga doesn't bother me recoil wise but after 200 rds at the skeet range it wears on me. Which in this case would be worse training.
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Old September 28, 2010, 12:50 PM   #6
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For sure! When I was younger, we used to take my Dad's duty 870 out and enjoy blasting slugs and 00 mags. But a class full of that stuff gets old really quick. Especially when I'm not likely ever going to deploy a shotgun for defense.

It's definitely good to have a shotgun course under your belt. But I wouldn't take another one any time soon.
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Old September 28, 2010, 01:13 PM   #7
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Alot of people like to classify the 12Ga as a premier defense weapons, for home in most instances. But i agree i'm not likely to grab a shotgun either for defense. Which is why i'm building my AR, i just enjoy the stability of having 30 rounds in one mag and then 4 more right behind that, instead of having to take time to reload my shotgun. And range isn't a worry with the AR.
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Old September 28, 2010, 03:11 PM   #8
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Alot of people like to classify the 12Ga as a premier defense weapons, for home in most instances.
I wish those guys would take a CARBINE and SHOTGUN class and THEN decide.
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Old September 30, 2010, 01:29 AM   #9
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i just enjoy the stability of having 30 rounds in one mag and then 4 more right behind that, instead of having to take time to reload my shotgun.
I can't think of many HD/SD situations that would require you to reload a shotgun if used properly.
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Old September 30, 2010, 05:59 AM   #10
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I live in a rural area where bears, mountainlions or methheads could pop up at anytime. An 870 loaded with 7 slugs and a side saddle with 6 more is my bedside companion.
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Old September 30, 2010, 07:35 AM   #11
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Quote:
But i agree i'm not likely to grab a shotgun either for defense. Which is why i'm building my AR, i just enjoy the stability of having 30 rounds in one mag and then 4 more right behind that, instead of having to take time to reload my shotgun. And range isn't a worry with the AR.
At what range do you think you will be engaging someone for "defense"? Planning for that random drive-by 150 round sniper duel?
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Old September 30, 2010, 08:50 AM   #12
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At what range do you think you will be engaging someone for "defense"?
I know this question was for Blackops, but defense shootings are likely to be at contact distance to not much more than 15 yards. Thus, you're best bet is the best CQB weapon... the carbine. Specifically, the M4 carbine.

The long range capability of the carbine is always being debated, but for close up stuff. It's the champ... hands down.
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Old September 30, 2010, 10:36 AM   #13
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The long range capability of the carbine is always being debated, but for close up stuff. It's the champ
Maybe for you that is the case, but not for me. My choices would be 1) shotgun/00 buck, 2) .45 ACP. I'd rather make big holes in the BG than small ones. Each of the 8 or 9 pellets from the SG is going to make twice as big a hole as the .223.
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Old September 30, 2010, 12:37 PM   #14
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I wonder if they cover using birdshot for personal protection.
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Old September 30, 2010, 02:00 PM   #15
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Maybe for you that is the case, but not for me. My choices would be 1) shotgun/00 buck, 2) .45 ACP. I'd rather make big holes in the BG than small ones. Each of the 8 or 9 pellets from the SG is going to make twice as big a hole as the .223.
Could be that more people like the security of more rounds or availability of being able to load fast/quicker (30 round mag)in a carbine than a SG even with mag capacity ones
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Old September 30, 2010, 02:41 PM   #16
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Maybe for you that is the case, but not for me. My choices would be 1) shotgun/00 buck, 2) .45 ACP. I'd rather make big holes in the BG than small ones. Each of the 8 or 9 pellets from the SG is going to make twice as big a hole as the .223.
I prefer having a precision shot capability. Although I've had impressive pattern results with Flight Control 00 ammo in my shotgun, Single precision shot capability is still preferred for me.

Overall though, the carbine does just about everything better than the shotgun. Recoil, flash, ammo capacity, penetration, ease of reload if necessary, penetration, and ease of accessories are all better on the carbine than the Shotgun.

The one area where the Shotgun is probably better is punching through auto glass. But that remote possibility doesn't outweigh every other area where the carbine completely outperforms the shotgun.
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Old September 30, 2010, 02:45 PM   #17
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I wonder if they cover using birdshot for personal protection.
I saw an episode of Personal Defense TV where they were actually advocating the use of BIRD SHOT at Gunsite. Tom Gresham, of course, was eating it up.

I couldn't believe it. At least I know to never take a course at Gunsite now.
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Old September 30, 2010, 02:55 PM   #18
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advocating the use of BIRD SHOT
Number 2 copper plated for geese isnt no laffing matter if shot at SD ranges. Cut one open and see what I mean there. The 2x6 turkey combo shells are another I wouldnt wish to be shot by. Not all bird shot is 7 1/2 there are a few large winged ones out there that 6 wont knock down.
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Old September 30, 2010, 04:40 PM   #19
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I also have come to realize that I will probably opt for my AR for HD in my new home. Right now, it's my .45 ACP 1911 due to my present home's small confines. But I really need to get a decent shotgun and master it, simply because it's the one weapon I purely suck at. I'm bound and determined to become a viable shotgunner someday, and this video really stuck it to me.
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Old September 30, 2010, 04:45 PM   #20
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I think that ruling out Gunsite based on that one factor is a disservice to yourself. Please also consider that Gunsite is in the lineage of whole lot of respected shooting schools and instructors out there.
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Old September 30, 2010, 09:56 PM   #21
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I think that ruling out Gunsite based on that one factor is a disservice to yourself. Please also consider that Gunsite is in the lineage of whole lot of respected shooting schools and instructors out there.
Their hopeless attachment to the 1911, testimony by former students, as well as many other absurd demonstrations on the Outdoor Channel has solidified my opinion of Gunsite.

I'm sure they have good visiting instructors and a nice facility. But there's better training options out there in my opinion.
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Old October 1, 2010, 04:35 AM   #22
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IMHO... A firearm to be used in close, has to be able to be swung about it's role of house, or back yard shoot out makes that a given.

A shotgun is big and clumsy, can be grabbed by the in house criminal, much easier than a hi-cap pistol. Not sure on my home being ever attacked by a group, admittedly anything could happen. My Steyr AUG with a 16" Barrel, having a total length of 28" is real handy once the range starts to open up.

My Son had a contract of some 6 months duration, a large Jewelry Store.

Indoors with 9mm pistol, Glock 19 my favorite pistol. The major reason we were employed, the hang around group from the local hood. Sitting on vehicles, foul language, not appreciated by the Ladies at quitting time.

The first evening of this older bearded uniformed gent, with 12 gage pump, in both hands! Fixed that problem.

An 18" Mossberg Pump with SECURITY in 1" white letters on the black polymer butt-stock, was not too heavy for the 5 minutes I carried it!

I heard it well articulated by a local teen "The old dude got's a gage" he was correct, on both counts, after all.
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Old October 1, 2010, 08:44 AM   #23
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Outstanding. . . I wanna take a shotgun course now.
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Old October 1, 2010, 09:02 AM   #24
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dude, the pump action sound totally just scares the bad guys away. works every time

But seriously, I feel like a carbine is more versatile than a shotgun... And where the average civilian has little time or money to spare, focusing on a carbine will give you better bang for buck. Buy and practice with a shotgun of course, but my vote is focus on the carbine... And truth be told, I use a 9mm handgun for HD because the only carbine training I have so far is what I've watched on the Magpul Dynamic Carbine videos At least I realize that doesn't make me an expert...

And I'll be the first to admit I really really really don't like 12ga recoil on an 18in bbl pump...

Oh, and that first line was a joke if you missed that...
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Old October 1, 2010, 09:24 AM   #25
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Reading through this thread it's apparent that some folks have already decided that there is one true way to skin this cat, I truly hope it works best for you all. At some point we all make decisions on what works best for us.

Also, for what it's worth, I don't know about Magpul, but most shotgun courses will allow you to run a 20 gauge if you're worried about beating yourself up.
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