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Old September 26, 2010, 12:34 PM   #1
Tomac
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Expansion Test: Fiocchi's 92gr 9mm EMB (Expanding Mono Block)

Today I tried a highly unscientific expansion test of the Fiocchi 92gr EMB from one of my M&P9c's.
I will admit to being a little concerned about using such a light bullet out of the 9c's short bbl.
I used 3 1-gal water jugs in full contact, presenting 18" of medium (I thought 2 might be sufficient w/the 3rd for a margin of safety).
Fired a single shot from 10', impacting the center of the first jug. Surprisingly, all 3 jugs exploded w/the third showing an exit hole out the back (shucks and other comments!).
Having deliberately set up the jugs so line-of-travel was easy to determine I decided to hunt out a bit along the bullet's probable track to see if I could locate it.
I'd barely looked down into the mud when I located the expanded bullet just inches away from the third jug's location. Apparently the bullet had just enough energy to barely punch out the back of the third jug and no further.
Expansion was a full & classic mushroom measuring .64" at the widest w/full weight retention (the bullet is entirely copper & bronze).
I realize this test is highly unscientific under ideal conditions but still I find myself impressed w/the level of expansion & depth of penetration from a short bbl.
Tomac

Recovered bullet w/an unfired cartridge:

Recovered bullet, side view:

Recovered bullet, front view:
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Old September 26, 2010, 12:55 PM   #2
proxpilot
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looks like a perfect flower. lol
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Old September 26, 2010, 01:37 PM   #3
chris in va
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First I've heard of that round. Is this new or based on an older design?
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Old September 26, 2010, 01:44 PM   #4
Tomac
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Not too old, here's the only decent test I could find on it, it's from 2005:
http://www.raoulwagner.com/tests2005.htm
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Old September 26, 2010, 01:59 PM   #5
Bill DeShivs
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If I ever have any trouble with water jugs, I'll be sure to have some of this on hand.
Cool test, great expansion.
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Old September 26, 2010, 03:32 PM   #6
.40cal
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I can't recall ever hearing about this ammo either. Very interesting expansion. Cool test.
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Old September 26, 2010, 05:18 PM   #7
priler
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actually this design has been around awhile.it's been a long time and i forget all the details but i'm sure it's european,austrian,german or something else i think.

the basic idea is,it goes through barriers but when it hits flesh,it expands,..and obviously water.

i'd have a problem trusting it in all my pistols at 92gr,even if i tested for function and found it reliable.

the theory is sound but far from my first choice,in both reliability and terminal performance.
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Old October 3, 2010, 12:05 PM   #8
Tomac
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Update: New Unscientific Tests

Just got back from the range, here are the results, all fired from 10' through 1 layer of lined leather and 2 layers of denim and correlate to how you see the bullets in the pic from left to right:

1) (Not shown) 3.6" bbl, EMB, bullet passed through leather, denim and all 4 jugs and was not recovered (I have no idea what happened here).
2) 3.6" bbl, EMB, this is the bullet from the first test last week, no leather or denim, Exp = .64", Pen = 18".
3) 3.6" bbl, Fiocchi 115gr XTP JHP, Exp = .52", Pen = 18".
4) 3.6" bbl, EMB, Exp = .69", Pen = 15".
5) 3.6" bbl, EMB, Exp = .74", Pen = 18".
6) 4.25" bbl, EMB, Exp = .65", Pen = 18".
7) 4.25" bbl, EMB, Exp = .70"*, Pen = 18". * = shed 2 petals in the 2nd jug.

After the first unrecovered shot, following bullets penetrated wet leather/denim, I have no idea what effect if any it might have on expansion/penetration. Remarkably consistent penetration despite different bbl lengths or prescence/lack of leather/denim.
Also tested for comparison (but not shown):
8) Federal .40 180gr Hydra-Shok, 4" bbl, Exp = .61", Pen = 24".
9) Speer .40 155gr Gold Dot, 4" bbl, Exp = .61", Pen = 24".

Test setup:

Recovered bullets:


ETA: Here are some other 9mm water jug tests for comparison: http://stevespages.com/page8f9mmluger.html
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Last edited by Tomac; October 3, 2010 at 12:40 PM.
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Old October 4, 2010, 06:46 PM   #9
Tomac
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Okay, here's a question for those better versed than I in fluid dynamics:
For such a lightweight bullet the EMB seems to achieve notable penetration w/very good expansion. Could this unexpected penetration be due in part to the EMB's bronze post possibly enhancing post-expansion hydrodynamics instead of presenting the typical entirely flat mushroom shape of more std JHP's?
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Old October 5, 2010, 12:03 PM   #10
Manco
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The bullet design is...interesting, and kind of seems like an extreme version of Federal's Hydra-Shok design.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomac
For such a lightweight bullet the EMB seems to achieve notable penetration w/very good expansion. Could this unexpected penetration be due in part to the EMB's bronze post possibly enhancing post-expansion hydrodynamics instead of presenting the typical entirely flat mushroom shape of more std JHP's?
It could be that, or maybe it expands slowly/late, penetrating as a smaller projectile for much of the distance. The latter would not necessarily be inherently good or bad--it's just a trade-off that some folks may favor or disfavor for their own reasons. The former, however, seems like it would not be favorable because unlike watercraft you don't want a bullet to be hydrodynamically slick and efficient--you want it to expend what energy it has in tearing and crushing any flesh in its way, creating as wide a permanent cavity as possible (given sufficient penetration), and damaging whatever it touches rather than slipping by most of it.
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Old October 5, 2010, 12:20 PM   #11
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Need to shoot it in some ballistic gel to see how/when it's expanding.
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Old October 5, 2010, 06:27 PM   #12
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Very interesting, think I will have to try some.
A 9mm in a 19 at over 1250. Wonder what they would do in my Beretta Storm carbine.
1500??
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Old October 5, 2010, 06:32 PM   #13
Tomac
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Quote:
Need to shoot it in some ballistic gel to see how/when it's expanding.
I'm already thinking along those lines if I can rig an affordable test that would actually be worth anything...
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Old October 5, 2010, 07:15 PM   #14
B. Lahey
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Here are some jello shots of this round (older version loaded by Hirtenberger):

http://www.ammoman.com/gunshots.html

Looks like pretty early expansion to me.

I never thought we would see this ammo in the US, as it has always been promoted as an armor-piercing handgun round that would also expand in squishystuff.

If you want to dig up some more ballistics tests, seach around for "Hirtenberger EMB" instead of using Fiocchi as a search-term. Hirt loaded this projectile for many years, Fiocchi is new to the game. As I recall, it developed a pretty good reputation among the various euro cops.

Where are y'all finding this stuff for sale?
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Old October 5, 2010, 09:24 PM   #15
Tomac
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Quote:
Where are y'all finding this stuff for sale?
http://palmettostatearmory.com/1205.php
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct...tNumber=249242

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