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Old September 17, 2010, 04:23 PM   #1
Uncle Buck
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Living With a Felon

Folks, I have a question for you and I am sure someone here knows the answer. (I was going to call the ATF and ask them, but they are closed for the week-end already.)

Charles is a convicted felon. He is not allowed to own a firearm.

Suzy is Charles wife.

Can Suzy own a firearm?

One of my family know-it-alls insist that she can not own a firearm, because Charles lives in the same house and will have access to it. Something here just does not seem to ad up. Suzy does not lose all her rights because she married Charles (Does she?).

What are Suzy's options in this case?

Also, can Charles own (and use) a black-powder firearm? You can buy them with-out having to go through a NCIS check. Is he is prohibited from owning any type of firearm?

Thanks in advance for your replies and I am going to try to remember to call ATF and find out sometime next week, but this is going to gnaw at me the whole week-end.
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Old September 17, 2010, 04:26 PM   #2
Bamashooter
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im not sure about missouri but here if you are a felon all you can own is primative weapons like a muzzleloader. i dont think suzy loses her rights becouse of who she married.
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Old September 17, 2010, 04:26 PM   #3
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Have Suzy get a gun safe Charlie has no access to.
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Old September 17, 2010, 04:37 PM   #4
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Suzy can keep the firearms in a locked room/safe that only she has access too. They can also be on her person under her positive control. Constructive possession occurs when the felon knows where the firearms and has the ability to obtain them without breaking and entering into something.
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Old September 17, 2010, 04:40 PM   #5
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Your family know-it-all is a moron. As far as the Feds are concerned, Charlie may not touch, let alone possess, any kind of firearm, including black powder guns. Suzy may own all the guns she can afford. Suzy is not allowed to let Charlie touch her guns. The state they live in may have more restrictive rules.
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Old September 17, 2010, 04:47 PM   #6
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Charlie don't touch.
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Old September 17, 2010, 05:35 PM   #7
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Ask G. Gordon Liddy how he handles this situation...

On his radio show back in the '90s, he always was bragging about "Mrs. Liddy"'s gun collection.
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Old September 17, 2010, 06:22 PM   #8
Don P
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Here is the link to the ATF web site,http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/unli...n-restrictions


Q: Are there certain persons who cannot legally receive or possess firearms and/or ammunition?
Yes, a person who —

1.Has been convicted in any court of a crime punishable by imprisonment for a term exceeding 1 year;
2.Is a fugitive from justice;
3.Is an unlawful user of or addicted to any controlled substance;
4.Has been adjudicated as a mental defective or has been committed to a mental institution;
5.Is an alien illegally or unlawfully in the United States or an alien admitted to the United States under a nonimmigrant visa;
6.Has been discharged from the Armed Forces under dishonorable conditions;
7.Having been a citizen of the United States, has renounced his or her citizenship;
8.Is subject to a court order that restrains the person from harassing, stalking, or threatening an intimate partner or child of such intimate partner; or
9.Has been convicted of a misdemeanor crime of domestic violence
10.Cannot lawfully receive, possess, ship, or transport a firearm.
A person who is under indictment or information for a crime punishable by imprisonment for a term exceeding 1 year cannot lawfully receive a firearm.

Such person may continue to lawfully possess firearms obtained prior to the indictment or information.

[18 U.S.C. 922(g) and (n), 27 CFR 478.32]
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Old September 17, 2010, 06:46 PM   #9
Don P
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This is from the ATF's web site with regards to Missouri
the link is
http://www.atf.gov/publications/down...f-p-5300-5.pdf


571.070. Possession of concealable firearm
unlawful for certain persons - penalty
1. A person commits the crime of unlawful
possession of a firearm if such person knowingly
has any firearm in his or her possession and:
(1) Such person has been convicted of a
felony under the laws of this state, or of a crime
under the laws of any state or of the United
States which, if committed within this state,
would be a felony; or
(2) Such person is a fugitive from justice, is
habitually in an intoxicated or drugged condition,
or is currently adjudged mentally incompetent.
2. Unlawful possession of a firearm is a class
C felony.
571.080 Transfer of concealable firearms
A person commits the crime of transfer of a
concealable firearm if such person violates 18
U.S.C. Section 922(b) or 18 U.S.C. Section
922(x).
571.
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Old September 17, 2010, 06:52 PM   #10
AZAK
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Quote:
Charles is a convicted felon. He is not allowed to own a firearm.

Suzy is Charles wife.

Can Suzy own a firearm?
Bob and Shelly have two children, little Bob and Shubert both still in diapers; and under the age of eighteen.

Can Bob and or Shelly own firearms?

Charles has consequences for his conviction that Suzy does not. Charles is responsible for now "walking the straight and narrow"; which in this example means keeping out of Suzy's drawers... or gun safe... or wherever she secures her firearms.
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Old September 17, 2010, 06:56 PM   #11
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I'd say that's a gray area.

Technically I think Suzy is within the law if she strictly forbids any firearms from his possession.

However, the moment he has 'constructive possession' or 'actual possession' I think Suzy runs the risk of being drug into the 'providing a felon with a firearm' deal (just like if an adult leaves guns around and a minor commits a crime with one of these guns).

So, the bottom line is that she lives in danger of that every moment. This is certainly unfair to her but that's the reality.
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Old September 17, 2010, 07:00 PM   #12
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Only going from personal experience as a freind of mine has a step son living with him who is a convicted felon. He owned three firearms that had to be removed. Absolutely no firearms of any type and God help you if you had any ammunition as well. Now, a felon is a felon and why should there be any difference from state to state? ....


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Old September 17, 2010, 08:06 PM   #13
Support_and_Defend
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pahoo
Now, a felon is a felon and why should there be any difference from stte to state?
Because state laws are allowed that are more restrictive then Federal laws. Some acts are felonies in some states that are not felonies in Federal law. There are plenty of firearms restrictions in some states that are more restrictive than Federal laws.
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Old September 17, 2010, 08:36 PM   #14
divil
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Quote:
Bob and Shelly have two children, little Bob and Shubert both still in diapers; and under the age of eighteen.

Can Bob and or Shelly own firearms?
Which Bob?

Quote:
As far as the Feds are concerned, Charlie may not touch, let alone possess, any kind of firearm, including black powder guns.
Depends on your definition of "firearm". The definition in the relevant federal law excludes quite a lot of things that you would probably consider firearms, including some old black powder types and even a few cartridge firearms.

There's a very comprehensive list here

Charlie could posses anything from that list without violating federal law. I don't know about ammunition though, or state law for that matter.

I don't think tat law contains a definition for "possession" so whether it includes living in a house that contains firearms might have to be tested in court. I'd guess the ATF would decide whether to test that case based on whether Charlie was on the straight and narrow, or was up to his old felonious tricks again.
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Old September 17, 2010, 09:00 PM   #15
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Suzy can own firearms. All she has to do is ensure Bob cannot access them. Reasonable and prudent is the standard. A locked room, gun safe, any regular and normal secure storage that Bob would have to break into to in order to get a gun is sufficient to satisfy the law.

Bob having the keys to the room or the combination to the safe, does not, and violates the law.
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Old September 17, 2010, 10:08 PM   #16
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It's not a definitive answer but when I have been around felons they are adamant about not touching a weapon, they act like you could get them thrown in jail if their fingerprints are on a gun. They haven't mentioned not being able to be around them, they just can't handle them.

Now I did hear one say he couldn't live with someone that had guns, so the person who owned guns moved them to a relatives house.

People tend to be so full of crap as far as their interpretations on things like this the only way you can be sure is to get it direct from someone who would really know.
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Old September 17, 2010, 10:27 PM   #17
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This issue came up in my CCW class this summer and they dealt with the possesion issue. For Suzy to keep a gun in the house, she is required to have possesion of the gun at all times, either on her person, or locked up with a combination lock, not a key lock that only she knows. It was my impression that knowingly allowing a convicted felon to have possesion of your firearms is a violation of law as well.
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Old September 17, 2010, 11:42 PM   #18
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This may be a little off the main topic, but here in Wisconsin a Felon I know was able to buy a deer hunting license, and register a deer. How his tag got on the deer doesn't matter as he was not allowed to legally participate in the hunt.

There are so many State "Gray areas" that current computer technology should be able to take care of, but are not.

I would hope that his wife should be able to own her guns as long as he has no reasonable access to any of them.....like locked up well.
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Old September 17, 2010, 11:55 PM   #19
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As long as the husband is not on parole, or probation with clauses that state that they may not live in the house if there are firearms. Then the wife can own any gun she wants to. Depending on the felony that the husband was convicted of he can get his 2nd amendment rights back. It is not cheap to do so and there are a whole lot of hoops to jump through, as well as a very long wait.
I do know a felon that had his 2nd amendment rights restored. It cost him quite a bit of the attorney. It took over a year. There was a meeting with a grand jury. Then a few more months of waiting.
Also the if they owned it before hand clause. If they are concivted of domestic violence(even misdemenor) they are commiting a felony by possesing a fire arm.
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Old September 18, 2010, 08:07 AM   #20
ClydeFrog
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A tad of topic but a valid point...

A few years ago, while working as a armed security patrol officer, I assisted a tenant on a client's property who called 911. The young woman was upset & angry, claiming her "live-in" boyfriend took off and removed several items from the town-home. She railed on about how her ex was a convicted felon and had a criminal record. A uniformed patrol deputy calmly explained to the woman that this felon was not on the lease, was living in the home openly & with her permission and could make the valid claim in a civil court that the items were his property. The cop even offered to file a theft report with an unknown subject for her insurance/records but she refused to comply. The young woman started to argue with the deputy and demanded to press charges on the boyfriend who left.
This incident is a good example of how and why felons & firearms don't mix. Some "bad boys" can be reformed or grow up and see the error of their ways but most felons/criminals spend their entire adult lives going in & out of prison. I wouldn't leave firearms, ammunition, etc around any felons or "sketchy" people. There are just to many things that could go very wrong very quickly.

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Old September 18, 2010, 08:15 AM   #21
4runnerman
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GNLAfrance-Don't want to jump on ya,but yes a felon can own a Black Powder gun.They can also own a Cross-Bow. My Brother is a convicted Felon and that is all he can hunt deer with now is a Black Powder,He is also semi-handi capped so he also has the right to use a cross bow.I can say for all states,But in MN you can

PS-Calling someones family Morons is just low and wrong

Thanks
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Old September 18, 2010, 08:28 AM   #22
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The black powder rule is strictly by state. Some states allow it, some do not. Some won't even allow the possession of an air rifle, bow or spear. So check your state laws.

Best bet is to avoid living with a felon. However these days lots of things are felonies that really should not be.
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Old September 18, 2010, 09:28 AM   #23
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Atf and felons

Enough Said
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Old September 18, 2010, 10:51 AM   #24
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Another class of "felons"

Quote:
Some "bad boys" can be reformed or grow up and see the error of their ways but most felons/criminals spend their entire adult lives going in & out of prison. I wouldn't leave firearms, ammunition, etc around any felons or "sketchy" people. There are just to many things that could go very wrong very quickly.
I do agree that certain felons and "sketchy" people are not to be trusted, nor tempted. However, don't forget that there is another class of "felon" in America. And these are decent, generally moral law abiding folk, except for some isolated incident that has literally, branded them for the rest of their lives. Did you know that in some jurisdictions simple trespassing becomes felony trespass, if the property belongs to a church? And at 18yrs and 3months, it doesn't get expunged or sealed like it would for a juvenile? I know a guy in that situation. Has lived the last 20 years without even a traffic ticket, but no guns for him. And I know of people I would trust, who's only illegal act is in their choice of intoxicant.

Complete denial of firearms right for a felony, any felony made good sense when the vast majority of felonies were crimes that actually inflicted harm on others. However today, we have a huge number of "felony" class crimes that are nothing more than violations of arbitrary rules. AND, we also have firearms rights denial for certain classes of misdemeanors!

Land of the Free....once it was...today? Not so much.
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Old September 18, 2010, 11:02 AM   #25
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Stabbing

Enough Said
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