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Old September 15, 2010, 07:08 PM   #1
cdutton
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Private transfer

So, after looking around, I'm still as stuck as when I started.

This is in CALIFORNIA.

My buddy (18 years old) just had his mom buy a Glock 22. Then, after the waiting period, they picked it up at the gun store, and filled out some kinda form that transferred the handgun into his name.

He legally now owns a handgun at 18, even though the law is 21.

Can someone explain if this is actually legal, or a fluke, a loophole, or whatever? Can he be arrested for it?

Thanks.
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Old September 15, 2010, 07:19 PM   #2
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Call a reputable gunshop in the area, they will be able to explain the process to you. If still in doubt, contact local LE.


From the Cali. Office of Attorney General, FAQs:

Can I give a firearm to my adult child? Can he/she give it back to me later?

Yes, as long as the adult child receiving the firearm is not in a prohibited category PDF logo [PDF 10 kb / 1 pg] and the firearm is a legal firearm to possess, the transfer of a firearm between a parent and child or a grandparent and grandchild is exempt from the dealer transfer requirement. However, if the firearm is a handgun, you must submit a Report of Operation of Law or Intra-Familial Handgun Transaction PDF logo [PDF 481 kb / 2 pg] and $19 fee to the DOJ within 30 days. Assault weapons may not be transferred in this fashion. See Penal Code section 12285, subdivision (b).

(PC section 12078(c))
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Old September 16, 2010, 12:24 AM   #3
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It's called the "Gift Clause".

It's legal, provided they used the correct reporting method (forms). And using the reporting method prevents it from being a "straw man" purchase, as well.


I lived in a different state, but legally owned 3 handguns before I was 21. Just because some people have to wait until the decided upon legal age to purchase handguns, doesn't mean it's illegal to own them before that.
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Old September 16, 2010, 12:45 AM   #4
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In most free states, an 18 to 20 year old person can buy a handgun from any other same-state resident or be given one as a gift from any same-state resident.
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Old September 16, 2010, 09:07 AM   #5
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I'm not familiar with California law, but the legality of such a transaction under Federal law depends on a few factors. The main issue is whether your buddy's mom bought the gun with your buddy's money or her own money. If your buddy gave his mom the money to go buy the handgun for him, that's a straw purchase and is illegal. If, however, his mom bought the handgun with her own money and then gave it to him as a gift, it's legal. Federal law simply states that you cannot legally buy a handgun from an FFL until you're 21, but it is perfectly legal to recieve one as a gift or buy one from a private individual at 18 years old. State and local laws, however, may be more restrictive.

Honestly, the whole straw purchase law largely comes down to a matter of intent. Unless someone who cannot even legally posess a gun gets one, the issue is rather difficult to prove.
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Old September 16, 2010, 09:16 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Support_and_Defend
In most free states, ...
I've a couple of little nits to pick with the above.

First, the OP isn't asking about any State other than CA. What other States may or may not do is irrelevant.

Second, there are an awful lot of gunnies in CA that are fighting tooth and nail against the absurd laws there. They are helping to fund not only lawsuits within CA, but several lawsuits in other States. Your post is tantamount to bashing all of these good people that have chosen to stay and fight against those oppressive laws.

Third, it makes a mockery of your chosen screen name. Support and defend, indeed!

Vt. birdhunter has it right, as far as I understand CA law.
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Old September 16, 2010, 09:30 AM   #7
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But if we can't make fun of California who can we make fun of?

BTW the "paperwork" she filled out was a "Intra-Familial Handgun Transaction" report. See more here.
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Old September 16, 2010, 10:58 AM   #8
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Thanks for the good info, guys.

As far as I know (and want to know) she bought it and gave it to him with her own money. However, he's more than likely got a $600 credit with her now. Lol
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Old September 16, 2010, 01:40 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Al Norris
Third, it makes a mockery of your chosen screen name. Support and defend, indeed!
I took and oath to support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic. I consider the legislators in CA who have passed these unconstitutional gun control laws in that state to be domestic enemies of the Constitution. I have no responsibility, nor any desire to support or defend them in any way.

I do not consider the residents of California to be "free" in hardly any way, shape or form of the word, and not just in the areas of firearms.
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Old September 16, 2010, 01:46 PM   #10
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Im confused, i live in CA and did not know this. If a parent owns a hangun, s/he can LEGALLY give/transfer ownership to an adult child UNDER the age of 21?
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Old September 16, 2010, 02:02 PM   #11
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Im confused, i live in CA and did not know this. If a parent owns a hangun, s/he can LEGALLY give/transfer ownership to an adult child UNDER the age of 21?
Yes.
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Old September 16, 2010, 02:51 PM   #12
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I'm confused, i live in CA and did not know this. If a parent owns a handgun, s/he can LEGALLY give/transfer ownership to an adult child UNDER the age of 21?
Oh great see what you started? Now everyone is going to want one.
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Old September 16, 2010, 02:51 PM   #13
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As a general rule, I dislike having to chastise anyone publicly. However, sometimes members make it real hard, not to do it.

This thread is not about other States. The question was specific to California Law, as it now stands.

Other rants and screeds are off topic.

I might remind everyone of the following, from the Read Me First! sticky, that contains the rules of this specific forum: A rule broken in L&CR can result in losing all your privileges from the entire board.
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Old September 16, 2010, 04:58 PM   #14
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In most free states, an 18 to 20 year old person can buy a handgun from any other same-state resident or be given one as a gift from any same-state resident.
Not true. An 18 - 20 year old may be in posession of, or own a handgun, but cannot buy one from an private citizen or FFL holder. The only way for someone 18 to 20 years of age to legally own a handgun is to be given one as a gift. That's federal law, states may be more restrictive, but cannot allow an 18 year old to buy from a private citizen.

*Only reason I posted this is to correct some incorrect information that might get someone in some trouble*
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Old September 16, 2010, 05:17 PM   #15
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Here is the CA Penal Code
Quote:
12078(c)(2) also means parents or grandparents can transfer handguns to children or grandchildren 18 or older. Since it's illegal for dealers to transfer handguns to people under 21, this is the way people 18, 19 and 20 can legally receive handguns. (Penal Code 12026 is quite clear that those 18 and over can "own, possess, [and] keep ..." a pistol or revolver.)
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Old September 16, 2010, 05:31 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scorpion_tyr
The only way for someone 18 to 20 years of age to legally own a handgun is to be given one as a gift. That's federal law, states may be more restrictive, but cannot allow an 18 year old to buy from a private citizen.
That is incorrect. There is no federal law that prevents an 18-21 year-old from purchasing a handgun in a private-party transaction that does not involve an FFL. There IS, however, a federal law that prohibits a dealer from selling a handgun to anyone under the age of 21:
Quote:
18 USC 922(b) It shall be unlawful for any licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector to sell or deliver—
(1) any firearm or ammunition to any individual who the licensee knows or has reasonable cause to believe is less than eighteen years of age, and, if the firearm, or ammunition is other than a shotgun or rifle, or ammunition for a shotgun or rifle, to any individual who the licensee knows or has reasonable cause to believe is less than twenty-one years of age;
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Old September 16, 2010, 05:51 PM   #17
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Not true. An 18 - 20 year old may be in posession of, or own a handgun, but cannot buy one from an private citizen or FFL holder. The only way for someone 18 to 20 years of age to legally own a handgun is to be given one as a gift. That's federal law, states may be more restrictive, but cannot allow an 18 year old to buy from a private citizen.
*Only reason I posted this is to correct some incorrect information that might get someone in some trouble*
Wrong. 18 to 20 can private purchase a handgun in Arizona.

In Cali. private party sales must go thru a FFL.

Jim

Last edited by laytonj1; September 16, 2010 at 06:08 PM.
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Old September 16, 2010, 05:59 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scorpion_tyr
Not true. An 18 - 20 year old may be in posession of, or own a handgun, but cannot buy one from an private citizen or FFL holder. The only way for someone 18 to 20 years of age to legally own a handgun is to be given one as a gift. That's federal law, states may be more restrictive, but cannot allow an 18 year old to buy from a private citizen.

*Only reason I posted this is to correct some incorrect information that might get someone in some trouble*
Please post this Federal law that you speak of that prohibits it. It did not exist as of yesterday.

* Only reason I post this is to correct the incorrect correction of already correct information to avoid hindering the rights of prospective gun owners more than is already hindered by actual statute *

And to relate this to CALIFORNIA. It is not illegal in California to sell a handgun to an 18 year old in a private sale. The 21 year age limit comes to play because all private handgun sales must be conducted through an FFL by California law and Federal law limits handgun transfers BY FFLs (and only FFLs) to 21 years and older.

Last edited by Support_and_Defend; September 16, 2010 at 06:12 PM.
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Old September 16, 2010, 06:17 PM   #19
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scorpion_tyr,

Are you referring to 18 USC 922(x)?
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/18...2----000-.html

Quote:
(x)
(1) It shall be unlawful for a person to sell, deliver, or otherwise transfer to a person who the transferor knows or has reasonable cause to believe is a juvenile—
(A) a handgun; or
(B) ammunition that is suitable for use only in a handgun.
If that is the Federal law that you are referring to, you need to keep reading:
Quote:
(5) For purposes of this subsection, the term “juvenile” means a person who is less than 18 years of age.
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Old September 16, 2010, 10:59 PM   #20
cdutton
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So to clarify, I can buy a handgun from my dad, even though I am 18, AS LONG AS we don't do it through an FFL?

And another quick question: Can I legally purchase handgun ammunition from a sporting goods store or my local gun store, even though I'm 18?
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Old September 16, 2010, 11:31 PM   #21
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Quote:
nd another quick question: Can I legally purchase handgun ammunition from a sporting goods store or my local gun store, even though I'm 18
Yes you can

Quote:
I can buy a handgun from my dad, even though I am 18
BUY? You can get it gifted/transfered from your dad to you by filling out the half page form and mailing it with $19 enclosed.
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Old September 16, 2010, 11:54 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cdutton
and another quick question: Can I legally purchase handgun ammunition from a sporting goods store or my local gun store, even though I'm 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheGoldenState
Yes you can
Not legally. It's against Federal law for a licensed dealer to sell ammunition intended to be used in a handgun to a person under the age of 21.

And if someone says, "Well just tell them it is for a rifle." I will reply that then the buyer is committing a Federal felony.

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/18...2----000-.html

(a) It shall be unlawful—
(6) for any person in connection with the acquisition or attempted acquisition of any firearm or ammunition from a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector, knowingly to make any false or fictitious oral or written statement or to furnish or exhibit any false, fictitious, or misrepresented identification, intended or likely to deceive such importer, manufacturer, dealer, or collector with respect to any fact material to the lawfulness of the sale or other disposition of such firearm or ammunition under the provisions of this chapter;

(b) It shall be unlawful for any licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector to sell or deliver—
(1) any firearm or ammunition to any individual who the licensee knows or has reasonable cause to believe is less than eighteen years of age, and, if the firearm, or ammunition is other than a shotgun or rifle, or ammunition for a shotgun or rifle, to any individual who the licensee knows or has reasonable cause to believe is less than twenty-one years of age;
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Old September 17, 2010, 12:22 AM   #23
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Not legally. It's against Federal law for a licensed dealer to sell ammunition intended to be used in a handgun to a person under the age of 21.
Im 20. I buy ammo all the time, everywhere. Ive been carded a few times and never been turned away, ever (pistol ammo)?
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Old September 17, 2010, 12:33 AM   #24
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Im 20. I buy ammo all the time, everywhere. Ive been carded a few times and never been turned away, ever (pistol ammo)?
Does not make it legal.
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Old September 17, 2010, 12:39 AM   #25
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good to know, i wasnt aware of that. Well i guess if theyre going to see my age and sell it regardless i wont pull hall monitor on myself (yes yes i know what youre going to say).
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