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Old September 15, 2010, 05:07 PM   #1
Willie Lowman
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What is with all the illegal machinegun threads?

Really?!?!?! Do we need three running threads about unregistered fullautos? Has TFL become the place for people to stumble into and imply that they may or may not have an illegal weapon?
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Old September 15, 2010, 05:09 PM   #2
Dr. Strangelove
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I wondered about that myownself...

Seems like you can't swing a cat these days without hitting a Thompson or Sten or something like that....
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Old September 15, 2010, 05:11 PM   #3
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The "anonymity" of the internet makes it a good place to ask questions about suspect firearms. While I also have concerns regarding threads about "Is my bring home military gun legal" I also appreciate that the authors are asking for advice as to avoid legal complications.

That is part of the function of the forum, IMHO and as long as the boys (and girls) in bold allow it, and the conversation is civil, then I'm in no position to argue it.
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Old September 15, 2010, 06:58 PM   #4
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Quote:
Willie Lowman
What is with all the illegal machinegun threads?
It is the machineguns that are illegal, not the threads.

One can ask all kinds of questions anywhere (and especially behind the anonymity of the internet, as rjrivero pointed out, without fear of prosecution or even very much scrutiny. This is supposed to be a good thing.

As far as people implying that they may or may not have committed or be committing a criminal act. That may or may not be the intended message of the post. I have seen enough poorly written (and authored a few myself) posts that leave a great deal of doubt as to what the author intended. That is, I may write that I have a gallon of some illegal substance, where what I intended was that I have an empty container with suspicious markings on it.

Sometimes you gotta read between the lines, and sometimes you get it wrong. And sometimes the people posting are just yankin' yer chain.

I don't know. Human nature being what it is, people tend to push whatever envelope they are in. I, for one, am glad that our moderators on TFL allow a wide latitude.

It is irritating to see yahoos yammer on about their this or that, but the alternative is to allow other yahoos (no slight to our moderators is intended here, just symmetry in my rhetoric) to put muzzles on us.

Go onto CraigsList and try to post a "Wanted" or "For Sale" post for a firearms-related item. Even telescopic sights are specifically named as forbidden in the Craigslist rules.

To paraphrase William Blackstone, "It is better to let 10 criminals post on TFL than to lock out one with something worthwhile to say".

Besides, if we let the criminals post on, it might make them easier to catch.

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Old September 16, 2010, 07:36 AM   #5
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Personally, I don't really have any problem with these kinds of threads. There are still over 250,000,000 in the US alone who don't know a thing about machineguns, or laws regulating them. This forum is bound to get a handfull of these threads every now and then.

It's not like anyone has asked "Hey, I've got this friend and he says its super easy to convert a Remington 700 to a machinegun with just a shoestring...how is that done?"
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Old September 16, 2010, 09:00 AM   #6
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Personally, I don't really have any problem with these kinds of threads.
Exactly.

Who hasn't dreamed that they'd find a long lost vintage weapon that an old relative stashed away?
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Old September 16, 2010, 03:04 PM   #7
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granted

Questions should be asked and those with the knoledge should answer, but what happened to doing some reserch or maybe just reading one of the other threads that's currently active just a few lines down about the same topic???? I mean lets all kill horses wiith illegal NFA items then go beat him with them over and over again.
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Old September 21, 2010, 02:19 PM   #8
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good to see mods and adm with open minds. not many forums have that. big +1 to the mods!
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Old September 21, 2010, 02:26 PM   #9
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good to see mods and adm with open minds. not many forums have that. big +1 to the mods!
No kidding. On another forum, for fun I asked what people would do if they found a misplaced military M16 or M4 out in the hills? Would they shoot it all day and turn it in? Or turn it in right away?, etc.

Mods locked it for talking about stolen property. Come on! It was a hypothetical, fun, what if thread.
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Old October 23, 2010, 04:37 PM   #10
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The "anonymity" of the internet makes it a good place to ask questions about suspect firearms. While I also have concerns regarding threads about "Is my bring home military gun legal" I also appreciate that the authors are asking for advice as to avoid legal complications.

That is part of the function of the forum, IMHO and as long as the boys (and girls) in bold allow it, and the conversation is civil, then I'm in no position to argue it.
The "anonymity" of the internet - hope nobody is naive enough to believe you can really hide out on an internet forum.

If BATFE &/or the FBI wanted to track your physical location down to see if you really were in possession of illegal firearms there would be "suits" knocking at your door tomorrow morning or sooner.
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Old October 23, 2010, 05:18 PM   #11
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The "anonymity" of the internet - hope nobody is naive enough to believe you can really hide out on an internet forum.

If BATFE &/or the FBI wanted to track your physical location down to see if you really were in possession of illegal firearms there would be "suits" knocking at your door tomorrow morning or sooner.
Not true actually. It's quite easy to surf the internet COMPLETELY ANONYMOUSLY from just about anywhere iffin you know what you are doing. Surf, post, Dload, Uload, Whatever. No foolin. -Goodspeed
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Old October 26, 2010, 02:18 PM   #12
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If someone that does not know the law asks a question and finds out that what they are thinking of doing is not legal and they are dissuaded that is a good thing.

However if someone wants help or information as to how to commit an illegal act and gets assistance in doing something illegal that is not just bad, it can get the owners of this web site in trouble along with the people that gave the information.
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Old October 26, 2010, 03:24 PM   #13
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However if someone wants help or information as to how to commit an illegal act and gets assistance in doing something illegal that is not just bad, it can get the owners of this web site in trouble along with the people that gave the information.
If that's what they are looking for, they'd be better served to go buy one of those Palidin Press books. No one here has even come close to posting the information contained in some of those publications. Most of the posts I've seen lately about "questionable" full-auto items seem pretty innocent to me, especially if they are discussing older WWII era guns.

Personally, I think it would be interesting to discuss how to design a select fire weapon, or even discuss techniques in tuning existing ones. It would be interesting to know how SOT manufacturers ever come up with new designs if they aren't permitted to discuss the topic "how to build a machinegun" with anyone. No wonder why machineguns haven't changed much since the 1930's - since NFA, everyone is too scared to discuss how to build a better one!

I'll refrain from that kind of discussion here, because I doubt the Mods would approve. Although I think its ashame that we can't do this I really don't want to give some thug directions on how to make this or that gun full-auto either.
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Old October 26, 2010, 04:34 PM   #14
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They have improved and old design, they put a motor on a gatling gun.

When you think about it there is much they can do to change the revolver or semi auto pistol either.
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Old October 27, 2010, 10:40 AM   #15
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When you think about it there is (not?) much they can do to change the revolver or semi auto pistol either.
I don't know about that. I'm fascinated with ideas for making a semi-auto legally simulate full-auto. For example, I am interested in the crank devices that can be mounted on Browning 1919's. There are other crank devices that simulate full auto fire. I liked the Akins Accelerator - no I didn't buy one, but even though BATFE says it's not legal, I think it is - problem is no one has challenged this in court, and probably won't. But, that's a matter of legal opinion.

So, I came up with this idea: A crank-style device, but in the form of a geared pump / piston. The geared pump would mount under a semi-auto rifle. with a piston that presses the trigger as you pull the pump - maybe 5-6 runds fired per push or pull of the pump. Would BATFE approve it? Who knows - isn't any different than a crank device. The bigger question is could I draw it or make it? No, I just don't have those skills.
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Old October 27, 2010, 09:41 PM   #16
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You can bump fire with a rubber-band but that is also technically illegal.
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Old October 28, 2010, 07:48 AM   #17
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You can bump fire with a rubber-band but that is also technically illegal.
If its bump-fire, it's not illegal. You can use aids to assist you with bump-fire - still one shot per pull of the trigger.
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Old October 28, 2010, 03:16 PM   #18
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might as well be illegal first time an agent rolls up on you with 20 questions.
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Old October 28, 2010, 04:10 PM   #19
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So, I came up with this idea: A crank-style device, but in the form of a geared pump / piston. The geared pump would mount under a semi-auto rifle. with a piston that presses the trigger as you pull the pump - maybe 5-6 runds fired per push or pull of the pump. Would BATFE approve it? Who knows - isn't any different than a crank device. The bigger question is could I draw it or make it? No, I just don't have those skills.
Someone already makes that in a crank device you affix to the trigger guard,,,
It's called the BMF activator (Click here please),,,
Lotsa fun for $19.95.

I have a friend who bought the Activator and a 50 round drum mag for his wife's Ruger Challenger .22 semi-auto.

Lotsa fun and noise,,,

.
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Old October 28, 2010, 04:38 PM   #20
Skans
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Someone already makes that in a crank device you affix to the trigger guard,,,
It's called the BMF activator (Click here please),,,
Lotsa fun for $19.95.
I know, but my concept is a geared pump device (think shotgun pump) that mounts under a rifle that does the same thing as a the BMF activator....just better. With each stroke of the pump - forward and backward - it would cause a piston to press the trigger at a rate of up to 4-5 times per pull/push of the pump. It would permit you to hold, point and aim the gun more normally than would a hand crank, yet still simulate full-auto fire.
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Old October 28, 2010, 05:02 PM   #21
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and a 50 round drum mag
Did these ever come down in price? Where do you order these nowadays? I still needa let Santa know where to go for it as I am fairly certain that the jolly ol chap is bring me a Charger because the word is that I've been a very good boy :-)
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Old October 28, 2010, 05:20 PM   #22
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I saw one of those 10-22 drum magazines at the last gunshow I went to. I think they sell for well under $100 - just glanced at it, don't recall the exact price.
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Old December 23, 2010, 09:36 PM   #23
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To be frank I dont see why everyone goes crazy when you mention a fa conversion . If some kid wants to start filing sears , hammers and such on his lil ruger , go ahead but when the round fires off before it fully chambers he will learn ! ' btw I have noo experiance on that issue ' . Even if it does chamber the rounds safe it will wear that lil ruger out so fast its stupid .For me Im not a ask for permission kinda guy . But I didsee somthing cool at the gun show this weekend . A guy has some belt feeds on display but they were set up to fire off of propane and oxogen with a igniter . not sure how it worked but he claimed it sounded like it was being fired . But the bottom line is if some one is asking for a how to on a conversion , then there is about a 99% chance that they already know the punishment for getting caught so reply how you see fit but im going to link them to the right way . If they want to do it the safe way then they can plan on 8-13hrs at least to manufactor the parts , and if you ask me thats a pretty good deterrent if the 10Kand 10yrs is not . I also have no personal experiance on the time estimate. Go ahead and bash me , tell me the big bad atf is going to lock me up with bubba and antwon , yea yea yea . come on search my house and my guns . If any of you are stupid enough to do said conversions , dont leave them assembled for God sake
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Old December 24, 2010, 02:00 PM   #24
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Open minded Mods....

We are pretty open minded, until it comes to advocating/assisting in an illegal act. If you do so, you are toast! Be warned!

We do not tell people the right way (or even the wrong way) to convert firearms to full auto. Since 1986, they cannot be registered, and made legal, in any fashion. So asking about conversions is asking about an illegal act (in the US), and passing along that information could be seen as conspiracy to violate Federal Firearms laws!

That's why, boatmonkey, we "go crazy" when someone mentions an illegal conversion. Risking shutting down the site, and possible charges in Fed Court, because some poster just had to explain to another poster how to violate Fed law is not something we tolerate. Period.

You can take all the chances with the Feds searching your house that you want. But taking chances in our house (the forums) is not going to fly at all. If we find anyone doing it, you will be gone, and your posts removed. All of them. Be warned, and be smart.
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Old December 25, 2010, 01:09 AM   #25
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I did not mean to miff off any one . I think it comes down to free speech , the information is out there for any one to read , they even tell you how to make a atom bomb . I think what I was trying to get out was that if they think its as easy to file down this and that and 5 minutes later go out and play Rambo , then they are wrong . And they prob would not believe what they were told and do it any way , so if they had direction and saw for themselves just how complicated and precise it is then they would prob just drop the topic altogether . I know the forum could get in trouble which is also b/s but that’s the world we live in today . i.e. you ask me how to burn the tires off your car and when he gets caught I get in trouble . It just seems that folks get snappy and rude when asked what could be a innocent question . like hey how exactly do belt feed weapons work and how does a gun go from burst to f/a , how does a auto sear work ...... see where im going ? Maybe I just want to know , Im not planning another hollywood shootout . If some one ask me a question I will try to answer to the best of my knowledge . Im not a gun pro , gun smith or gun law expert , but I am a damn fine boat mechanic and appreciate the workings of a gun . I love to take them apart and finish off a ruff casting here and there and smooth this out and clean that, I may know what Im doing but I like to get opinions from the experts even on things I know how to do .
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