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Old September 13, 2010, 12:09 PM   #1
red caddy
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20 Ga. hull help?

Well, after a long layoff from shotgunning in general, I'm getting back into sporting clays and trap, and need some advise on picking a hull to standardise on for my 20 Ga. (.C Daily o/u).

When I was shooting a lot I used Winchester AA cases, 5-8 loadings before burnout. I still have a case or so, but they are in "shoot 'N toss" condition. I bought a garbage bag of range pickups, and sorted them by brand. I have a couple of cases of Remmington-Peters Skeet and field loads, (see pic's) and an equal ammount of Winchester "super speed".

Question is: Are any of them worth loading?

Which will have the longer loading life? (assuming a 7/8oz. load with ~13 Gr. Win 473AA powder) I'm using a MEC Grabber press.

Would anybody recommend a wad and powder combination?

The alternative is to just buy a couple of cases of new Win AA and use up several bags of WAA-20 wads I already have, and load some of these for Doves and pidgeon, or trade them off to sombody that likes/shoots Rem skeet.

C'mon guy's, make up my mind, Thanks, Paul.
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Old September 13, 2010, 01:48 PM   #2
oneounceload
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The super-speeds belong in the trash - the Remingtons will work - follow recipes for STS/Gun Clubs.

For ME, when I get to the point I need more hulls, I go buy a flat or two of Gun Clubs from Dick's when they are running a sale (they have or it just finished one for 4.98/box). Two flats will give enough hulls for about 3-4,000 rounds getting about 8 per reload.

I have just recently dropped my 20 gauge load to 3/4 using the CB clone of the AA wad - a minor tweak on the crimp stations of my MEC Jr. was all it took (you could also add a cheerio on top as well). I haven't seen, let alone used 473 in quite a while. Was using Unique - good powder, but dirty. Like Universal Clays now - cleaner burning. About 15.5 will get you 1200-1250 in the light load. (I was also using Unique and Universal for pistol reloading).

Same load works well in AA hulls also. I shoot 5-stand and sporting with my 20's, not trap or skeet - and the target are getting crushed by the 3/4 load.

If you try it and aren't getting the breaks you might have been getting with 7/8, try tightening your choke up one.
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Old September 13, 2010, 05:26 PM   #3
BigJimP
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You've got a good press / so you're fine there.

Like OneOunce advised ...you need to standardize on one hull / so you can adjust your crimp starter, etc and get decent crimps. Personally, in 20ga, I reload only Rem STS Hulls. Win has too many hull varieties out there / but if you stick with just AA's you might be ok. The problem is today's AA's are not what you were used to in terms of quality / especially the new HS AA hulls ( some are 2 piece, walls are thinner, they crack easier ....). Win also has some promotional loads that carry the AA logo / but the hull is thinner and more brittle than some of the more expensive AA Target shells they sell.

I would just dump the hulls you have / buy 30 or 40 boxes of new shells and go from there. In my experience Rem STS hulls will give you the longest re-loading life. Rem gun clubs use the same recipe as STS hulls / but they're thinner and more brittle. OneOunce gets away with them because he loads a light charge / and he gets a good life out of them. When I load them up around 1200 fps / they crack at 3 or 4 reloads ....where STS hulls can go 10 - 15 reloads pretty easily.

My personal load for 20ga / for Skeet, Sporting or hunting ....is 7/8 oz of shot ( and I usually load 8's ), Remington STS hulls, Winchester wad WAA20 or the equivalent Orange Duster wad, Win 209 primers, and I will either use Hodgdon International or Hodgdon Universal powder. For International I load 14.0gr of powder ( 1200 fps ) / if I use Universal I load 15.5 gr 1200fps. The pressure is less on Universal / but I find it dirty in my 20ga loads so I went to International. I use MEC 9000 HN loaders - but they're not really much different than the Grabber machines .../ and both Universal and International meter very well.

Hodgdon now makes all the Win powders ....but I think Win 473AA is discontinued. You're going to have to rely on old data / which means all the more reason why you need to standardize your hulls ...and dump that mix of hulls you have. I don't think you'll find 473AA is a recommended powder in 20ga these days ...
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Old September 13, 2010, 05:35 PM   #4
snuffy
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Which ones are reloadable? All of them. But the super speed winchester are a load 'em once, leave 'em lay. They have brittle plastic that cracks after only a couple loads, and a separate base wad that can come loose.

The rem. shell on the left is the gun-club hull. The one in the center looks like either a rem premier, or STS hull. Both are compression formed, one piece and can use rem premier loads or STS.
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Old September 13, 2010, 11:19 PM   #5
b money
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Any new(er) Remington which is a one piece(CF) hull are first in my book 2nd are old win AA's (also CF) only second because they are getting hard to find, far 3rd would be the new win AA's which are a two piece hull and can separate after a number of firing's. If your looking for a dedicated shotgun forum head over to www.shotgunworld.com
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Old September 13, 2010, 11:22 PM   #6
b money
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Frogot to mention ALL the newer one piece remington hulls can be loaded the same using the standard STS data. Same hull regardless of what they say on the outside, or if their smooth or ribed, or if their high or low brass.
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Old September 15, 2010, 01:43 PM   #7
red caddy
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All righty then, it looks like the best way to go is to:

*Load up the AA's.( Already done, used up all the 473 AA)
*Trash the Win Super X, game loads and Super speed's (anybody want/need 'em, -free)
*Load the Rem skeet and the ribbed (gun club?) I have on hand and finish using them up.
* buy a couple of cases of Rem STS/premier, new or once fired, and make that the standard.

Wadya think?


I'd like to try the 3/4 Oz in the 20Ga. Rem's, 'cause my fav in my 12 Ga. trap and live bird gun (Browning 32" high rib) is 1 Oz. of 7 1/2's @ 1340 Fps, loaded in Fed "Gold Medal " (A really good handicap and Bunker trap load for me)

Will the 3/4 Oz shot charge get me close to the same (1340) velocity in the 20?

My 3 in. .410's Chrony at 1290 Fps, (sub guage tubes in my C Daily o/u) so all the leads will look about the same, (Are you startin' to see a pattern here?) with whichever gun I take to hand.

I can make a 3/4 Oz. bushing for my 1-1/8th charge bar easily enough, What wad/powder/charge weight combination would get me closest to 1350 Fps. in the rem cases with 3/4 Oz. 7 1/2's ?

Thanks for the help, guy's, Paul.
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Old September 15, 2010, 02:15 PM   #8
oneounceload
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I don't go quite that fast, but I am imagining this - take your fast load in 7/8 and change nothing except the payload to 3/4 and chrono them - you might get the speed you're looking for.

My standard 20 gauge load has been 15.5 of Universal in the CB clone with 7/8 and a Win of Nobel 209 - dropping the charge to 3/4 sped things up a bit - more like 1250 from 1200 over a chrono
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Old September 17, 2010, 11:19 PM   #9
red caddy
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Can I load the rem's with WAA 20 wads? (I have 4 bags left from the old days) I also found a 4 Lb. can of 700-X, is there a 20 Ga load for it? Thanks again, Paul.
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Old September 19, 2010, 09:23 AM   #10
oneounceload
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According to Hodgdon, who owns IMR now, they use Federal hulls, an list a few 7/8 oz loads with the AA wad. The Federal wad is a straight-wall hull, so don't sub a taper hull like a AA or STS for the loads
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