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Old September 13, 2010, 11:25 AM   #26
Controlledpair
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Do you know exactly which one he got?

Quote:
Don't know the actual prices you saw and if they're reasonable but in general an extra $300 for a DD is money well spent.
it was the difference between about $940 for the DPMS Panther AP4 and $1200ish for the DD, not sure exactly what model though. Chamber was not chrome lined, not sure about the barrel. Both come with removable rear and fixed front sights. If I did go DPMS I'd probably end up jacking the price up anyway adding chromed barrel, bore, and chamber.
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Old September 13, 2010, 12:24 PM   #27
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That price is pretty high for the DPMS, especially when you can get a superior BCM or Spikes Tactical for about the same. Haven't priced DD in a while but they aren't cheap.

I would put more research into this. DPMS would bother me since they come in dead last out of 14 manufacturers in the "M4 Chart". Even my $800 AR build last summer has five times (16 vs. 3) as many checkmarks on the chart.
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Old September 13, 2010, 12:32 PM   #28
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Supossedly its their high end carbine, the AP4. I just wrote this on another forum, but I am going with the DD. The price isnt bad ($1200, about $1400 after I add a few things) and I will be able to walk out of the store same day. DPMS has a wait that could be months.
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Old September 13, 2010, 12:48 PM   #29
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Excellent choice! I know you'll find DD to be a fine rifle that should be largely problem free. Over the years you'll be glad you paid a little more for quality.

I bought their M16 bolt carrier group for my AR build when I decided to have a spare of this critical assembly. (Actually put the DD in my rifle and the original back as the spare.) Very impressed with the quality for only $129 and it meets all the important specs for a BCG.

You don't hear many bad things about Daniel Defense.

ETA:

BTW, it is the DPMS AP4-C that appears in the M4 Comparison Chart, not their lower cost models. And it only scores 3 out of 21 (ignoring warranty and rear sight). It's worth a look at that link someone provided earlier to see how fine your DD is.

Last edited by Quentin2; September 13, 2010 at 12:54 PM.
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Old September 13, 2010, 02:57 PM   #30
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My understanding of DPMS is that their parts aren't endowed with as much quality as other brands. But every DPMS I have fired (2 or 3) has worked just fine and been a smooth rifle.
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Old September 13, 2010, 03:27 PM   #31
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Hey, thanks haha. Havent bought it yet, but my choices are narrowed down to DD. I could pay more for a different name, but they seem to be the best at a reasonable price. The fact that they carry them in store is a bonus. The shop around the corner only carries RRA, why? I couldnt tell you.

I think that buying the M16 BCG was a really good idea. I dont think many people outside the military really understand the punishment a service rifle goes through while still being functional. The absolute worst are the bootcamp issue M16A2s... Have you ever seen a DI straight launch an M16 at a wall? I have haha. It still worked fine at the range. Those M16 have got to be the most abused rifles anywhere and for the most part they go bang every time.

So, for $200-300 more why the heck not get an AR made to the governments specifications? From what I've been able to read, seperate out of all the BS, and have heard from smiths and armorers around here, DD does what Colt, LMT, and the other high end manufacturers do at a slightly lower price. CHF barrels, forged uppers and lowers, chrome lined bores and barrels all make a difference when we enter the relm of serious shooting. Longevity is increased, and by my limited knowledge of economics that means finacially responsible in the long term. If a DPMS barrel needs to be replaced after one year of firing 10,000rds you basically just spent what you would have on a DD.

Hey, I'm no expert here. Just a guy who likes to research to death anything and everything that makes me part with my hard earned green backs. I dont have deep pockets. I'll probably never be a gun smith or armorer. Probably wont ever own more than one AR at a time. I'll probably always buy complete rifles and not kits, and I will definitely always take my rifles to a professional for work. I will treat my AR very well, but I will also most certainly run it hard. Based on all this my conclusion has been DD.
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Old September 13, 2010, 04:53 PM   #32
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I cannot speak for full rifles but I built one using a DPMS lower and it still being used, all mil-spec parts fit fine during assembly and there were no burs or flaws that needed attention.
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Old September 14, 2010, 09:59 PM   #33
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No
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Old September 14, 2010, 10:11 PM   #34
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Is a DPMS worth the money? Using objective criteria, in my opinion, no. I would rather put up the money to buy a rifle that has more of the quality control that is found in a Colt, Daniel Defense or BCM.

If, however, I could have no AR at all or an AR that cost what a DPMS can be had for, then I guess I would rather have a DPMS than nothing.

The gun store guy putting DPMS and Daniel Defense in the same league was out of his mind. Either he figured he had a sucker who would pay as much for either gun when they are demonstrably in different quality categories or he had no clue and was just running his mouth anyway.

Unless your AR budget is capped well below $1,000, I would recommend that you put more money into the gun up front and get an AR that will not only feed round #1 but round #5,000 without a lot of parts replacement.
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Old September 15, 2010, 08:00 AM   #35
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What about getting a bushmaster? They can be had for under 1K. Mine was 887 OTD in NJ which is pretty dam cheap since every store around wanted 1200 for it. Quality seems to be good enough for average joe the plinker as well.
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