The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > The Conference Center > Law and Civil Rights

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old September 1, 2010, 02:54 PM   #1
Ishyid
Member
 
Join Date: December 24, 2009
Location: Bonney Lake, Washington
Posts: 84
WA State Pistol Concealment Rules/laws

So im think of getting my first pistol and was curious about the rules or concealment laws in washington state. Is it legal to carry? Is it a open carry state? Can you get in trouble if someone sees the weapon? Any laws of weather it can be a loaded weapon? So pretty much the whole scope. Haha. So please let me know what you all know about anything about this.

Thanks,
Joshua
Ishyid is offline  
Old September 1, 2010, 03:32 PM   #2
alfack
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 4, 2009
Location: Marysville, Washington
Posts: 195
Washington is a "shall issue" state, meaning that if you pass the background check and cough up the $ they will give you a cwp. Open carry is also legal, but a good way to get harassed everywhere you go.
alfack is offline  
Old September 1, 2010, 03:35 PM   #3
RickB
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 1, 2000
Location: Western WA
Posts: 5,678
The laws of weather, is that it almost always rains.
RickB is offline  
Old September 1, 2010, 03:40 PM   #4
spacecoast
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 14, 2009
Location: Sunshine and Keystone States
Posts: 4,074
http://www.handgunlaw.us/states/washington.pdf
spacecoast is offline  
Old September 1, 2010, 04:20 PM   #5
gearchecker
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 6, 2009
Location: North IDAHO, Big Bear Country
Posts: 460
Idaho resident with a Washington CPL

I'm living over near Coeur d'Alene and travel over to Spokane and Seattle quite a bit. My Idaho CWL isn't recognized in WA, so I had to get a WA Permit to carry there. It took about an hour to drive over to the Spokane City Hall and about a half hour to fill out the paperwork and give them my money for my CPL. I think it cost $60 or so. Another hour drive home and that was it. Somewhere around 4-5 weeks later I had my WA permit in hand and I laminated it that night.
Super simple, and not too time consuming. You'll be fingerprinted where you apply for the permit. Spokane is done on a computer scanning plate so no ink on your fingers. Seattle does it that way too last I heard. Some of the smaller population counties still use ink since the scanner for fingerprints is high tech by their standards, and pretty expensive too. The staff at the licensing offices are extremely polite and helpful from all of my experiences working with them over the past few years.

Hope to see a post soon that tells us you have your permit in hand.

Washington is an open carry state and it's not uncommon to see people carrying openly. Down on the piers in Seattle it's commonplace to see people carrying open/semi-concealed and concealed once you know what to look for. I've been traffic stopped twice while carrying in WA, and the LEO's just asked me not to make any sudden moves (duh!). I made sure thy knew right away that I was carrying loaded, so there wouldn't be any surprises later.
Both times they asked what I was carrying and where it was located. Other than that they never even mentioned it again.

I'm pretty sure you are required to let any LEO that pulls you over in a traffic stop that you are carrying. That is, if you are.

Regards,
gearchecker
__________________
When the time comes that I don't want a new gun, Call the undertaker!
My firearm is an investment on my life.
http://www.takdriver.com
http://www.corneredcat.com

Last edited by gearchecker; September 1, 2010 at 04:27 PM.
gearchecker is offline  
Old September 1, 2010, 04:23 PM   #6
NavyLT
Junior member
 
Join Date: January 25, 2006
Location: Oak Harbor, WA
Posts: 1,719
Quote:
Originally Posted by alfack
Open carry is also legal, but a good way to get harassed everywhere you go.
Complete and total FUD! :barf:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joshua
So im think of getting my first pistol and was curious about the rules or concealment laws in washington state. Is it legal to carry?
Yes. However, it is illegal to conceal a gun on the person, without a CPL (Concealed Pistol License). It is also to illegal to carry a loaded gun in a vehicle without a CPL. Without a CPL, an unloaded handgun may be carried anywhere in the vehicle so long as it is not concealed on the person. Without a CPL, a loaded or unloaded handgun may be carried outside the vehicle, so long as it is not concealed.

Quote:
Is it a open carry state?
Absolutely. And we have one of the strongest state preemption laws in the country. Local cities and counties are prohibited by state law from banning any type of carry/possession of firearms beyond what state law already does.

Quote:
Can you get in trouble if someone sees the weapon?
Have a small minority of people been arrested simply because someone saw them carrying a gun? YES. Have those cases been thrown out in court? YES. Do almost all of the LEO's in Washington know that open carry is legal and will NOT harrass a person for only openly carrying, even if they get a MWAG call? YES.

The actual law states that it is illegal to carry a gun in a manner, under circumstances, and at a time and place that either manifests an intent to intimidate or that WARRANTS alarm. The WA Supreme Court has upheld and ruled that a holstered firearm does not WARRANT alarm. The WA Supreme Court has also ruled that even a gun carried in the hand is not in violation of the law IF all of the other elements of the statute are not met as well.

In other words, according to the WA State Supreme Court, a person can carry a gun down the street in their hand and NOT be in violation of the law if their finger is not on the trigger, if they are not at an unusual location at an unusual time and if the gun is not pointed at anyone. See State v. Spencer. (BTW, Spencer was a convicted felon carrying two rifles down the street in his arms on a Sunday afternoon and the WA Supreme Court found him NOT GUILTY of "brandishing" a firearm!)

Quote:
Any laws of weather it can be a loaded weapon?
You cannot have a loaded handgun anywhere in a vehicle without a CPL. You cannot have a loaded rifle/shotgun anywhere in a vehicle with or without a CPL.
You cannot conceal a handgun on the person without a CPL, regardless of if the handgun is loaded or not.
Open carry, outside a vehicle, is legal without a CPL, whether or not the gun is loaded.

Quote:
So pretty much the whole scope.
Pretty much the whole scope can be had by reading this:

http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/at...5&d=1280151535

Here is more info:
http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/fo...131-Washington

Quote:
I'm pretty sure you are required to let any LEO that pulls you over in a traffic stop that you are carrying.
No requirement exists in the state law.

Last edited by NavyLT; September 1, 2010 at 04:47 PM.
NavyLT is offline  
Old September 1, 2010, 05:43 PM   #7
Scattergun Bob
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 29, 2008
Location: Nine Mile Falls, Washington
Posts: 1,186
Joshua

Welcome to the world of handguns,

I have lots and lots of people here on the east side of the state who ask many of the same questions. There are true gray areas in the interpretation of the RCW (revised code of the state of Washington). My stock response is as follows: Firearms ownership is a RIGHT and a RESPONCIBILITY, our forefathers codified the RIGHT, it is up to each of use to exercise the RESPONSCIBILITY to understand and live within the limits of reasonable men. I my humble opinion this means you must educate yourself to the things you can not due with your new handgun, anything else not specifically prohibited you are FREE to do.


I always recommend Dave Workmen's Book Washington Gun Rights and Responsibilities, the web site is below http://www.danddgunleather.com/pages...gun_rights.htm

This is not a know all / end all reference since Dave is not a criminal lawyer, however he is very knowledgeable on our laws and spends considerable time in research. He is also very readable.


Here is the website for current Washington State Law, I value this site and use it frequently in my teaching. Self Awareness of what the code actually says is is in my mind a key to correct comportment.

Chapter 9.41 RCW Firearms and dangerous weapons
http://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.a...9.41&full=true

There are other places to look for additional laws and prohibitions, Dave spells those out in his book. As Navy LT noted there is also a body of decisions by the judiciary clarifying the RCW.

A last thought for you, if you do all of this work, you might know MORE than the rookie street officer. So please never argue with the cops about guns, comply and later you will have the time to prove your point.

Good Luck & Stay Safe
__________________
First, with the most, WINS!
Regards, Scattergun Bob
Scattergun Bob is offline  
Old September 1, 2010, 06:04 PM   #8
alfack
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 4, 2009
Location: Marysville, Washington
Posts: 195
Quote:
Originally Posted by NavyLT
Complete and total FUD! :barf:
Really? Barf? WTFE!. I guess that's easy for you to say, if you live in Oak Harbor. Try open carrying in Bellevue or downtown Seattle. You NEVER see folks open carry there.
alfack is offline  
Old September 1, 2010, 06:32 PM   #9
NavyLT
Junior member
 
Join Date: January 25, 2006
Location: Oak Harbor, WA
Posts: 1,719
Quote:
Try open carrying in Bellevue or downtown Seattle. You NEVER see folks open carry there.
Have you ever open carried? My friends and I do all the time, in Bellevue, Tacoma, Spokane, Seattle, SEATAC <- yes, the airport, all over the state.








Last edited by NavyLT; September 1, 2010 at 06:40 PM.
NavyLT is offline  
Old September 1, 2010, 06:34 PM   #10
NavyLT
Junior member
 
Join Date: January 25, 2006
Location: Oak Harbor, WA
Posts: 1,719






Hey! Look who's in the background? It's a group of Seattle's finest PD!

Seriously, alfack, you need to get out and try the water in the pool. There's nothing like a good taste of freedom.
NavyLT is offline  
Old September 1, 2010, 06:40 PM   #11
NavyLT
Junior member
 
Join Date: January 25, 2006
Location: Oak Harbor, WA
Posts: 1,719


OMG! Is he in a bank?!?

NavyLT is offline  
Old September 1, 2010, 09:12 PM   #12
alfack
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 4, 2009
Location: Marysville, Washington
Posts: 195
Ok, but I can count on one finger how many times I've seen someone open carrying around here and he was being harassed in Dennys. I'm glad you are exercising your rights. I'm all for it.
alfack is offline  
Old September 1, 2010, 10:06 PM   #13
oldkim
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 5, 2008
Location: Renton, WA
Posts: 462
Washington CPL

In Washington it's called a CPL - conceal pistol license.

Cost to get one is $55.25
http://www.dol.wa.gov/business/firearms/faconceal.html

The above link will give you the basics of how to apply, common questions and requirements. No class needed to apply (unlike some states that require some safety instruction).

For those new to conceal carry I strongly recommend this book that covers most common questions (from a legal standpoint).
http://www.danddgunleather.com/pages...gun_rights.htm

You can purchase this book from most gun shops in the Seattle area.

If you have any questions let me know.
__________________
"Shoot Safetly, Shoot Often and Share Your Sport." Jim Scoutten, Shooting USA

Check out my new website: www.shootonthemove.org
oldkim is offline  
Old September 1, 2010, 11:40 PM   #14
NavyLT
Junior member
 
Join Date: January 25, 2006
Location: Oak Harbor, WA
Posts: 1,719
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scattergun Bob
A last thought for you, if you do all of this work, you might know MORE than the rookie street officer. So please never argue with the cops about guns, comply and later you will have the time to prove your point.
I must respectfully disagree with this. There is no reason to allow a police officer to deprive you of your rights because THEY either do not know the law, or THEY are trying to get you to comply with what their opinion is. IF an encounter goes something along the lines of:

COP: "Hey you!"
LAC (Law Abiding Citizen): "Yes?"
COP: "What's that?"
LAC: "Ummm... a gun?"
COP: "You got a permit for that?"
LAC: "Yes."
COP: "Let me see that permit and your driver's license too."
LAC: "OK."
COP: "You can't carry that gun like that."
LAC: "Like what?"
COP: "Out in the open for everyone to see. People will get afraid and freak out. You have a CPL, you need to cover that up."
LAC: "OK."
COP: "Have a nice day, and don't let me see you carrying it that way again or next time I will arrest you."

So what has been accomplished by complying with the officer? The above encounter is the most common of the few that I have heard about in the last two years.
NavyLT is offline  
Old September 2, 2010, 12:14 AM   #15
Scattergun Bob
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 29, 2008
Location: Nine Mile Falls, Washington
Posts: 1,186
NavyLT

And yet in your own example the contact ended in the individual walking free, If he chooses he can file with IA. He could ask for a meeting with the head of that department to get a clarification. He could also contact a lawyer and demand redress.

The point I am trying to make is that all of this could be done without wearing additional jewelry, becoming aware of the accommodations available in the back seat of a Crown Vic, or putting up with heaving drunks in the holding tank. I would rather argue the point out side of the focus of a street officer.

You and I in the past were at odds concerning this point, I truly respect your input, and determination to stand your ground. I am simply taking the easy path, don't fight with cops in the street, fight with the judge in a courtroom.

In Great Respect, Bob
__________________
First, with the most, WINS!
Regards, Scattergun Bob
Scattergun Bob is offline  
Old September 2, 2010, 01:16 AM   #16
BluesBear
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 17, 2004
Location: Mill Creek, Washington (The Great Pacific NorthWet)
Posts: 378
If you are excercising your RIGHT of open carry in Washington State it does not matter one iota if you have a permit or not. NO permit is needed to carry openly. So when a Police Officer asks if you have a permit ask him/her for what? Unless you are driving you are probably doing nothing that requires a permit.

I have only been approached ONCE in five years of open carry and when asked if I had a permit I replied, "I don't believe a permit is needed for open carry is it officer?" His response was, "No". So I said why are you asking. He said, "Well if you have a permit you can cover that up." My reply was, "But I don't want to cover it up. Is that a problem?" He said. Of course not sir. Have a nice evening." This was in Pioneer Square, Seattle, August 2008. He was cautious but polite and once he figured out I wasn't some looney tune walking around he was okay with me.

My biggest hassle was in, of all places, Cabela's right off I-5. Several of us from OpenCarry.org attended their grand opening. I was there the second day they were open and no one said a word. Even with a heavy uniformed police presence for crowd control no one said a thing. However a week later I was there again and a salesman in the Gun Library approached me and told me I had to cover my tool. I informed him that open carry was legal in Washington. He said he knew that but company policy forbid it. I politely but firmly informed him that he was wrong. That Cabela's Cprporate policy was to follw state law. He said I would have to leave if I didn't conceal my revolver.
So, being the smartalec that I am, I reached into my pocket and produced a letter from the head of Cabela's Human Resources stating Cabel'a Corporate Policy regarding personally carried firearms in their stores. I asked him to call her office for me and inform her that he was telling me to leave so it would be official. (A member of store/corporate managment has to be informed for a tresspass order to be lawful.) He read it TWICE. The second time his lips were moving. He appologized profusely and said he would make sure that EVERYONE in the department was informed ASAP. I've never had a problem there since. Nor anywhere I carry openly. And I carry openly a while lot more than I carry concealed. And yes I open carry in my bank. But then again they do know me there. Actually I don't think they even realize I'm carrying.
I have found that most people don't pay attention.

Another funny story.
I was in the Aaron's Rental store in Everett, paying on my washer & dryer. I was leaning again the counter and a young man who had been looking at TV walked by and commented to his friend, "Look he's carrying a .38 and something sorta like a speedloader." I smiled at him and replied, "No... He's carrying as .44 and it IS a speedloader." His eyes got really big and all he said was, "Cool." The clerk glanced over the counter and went back to counting money and never said a word.

I have preached to several people in OpenCarry.org that it's HOW you carry that gets you in trouble. I know it's not right, but an older guy like me, carrying a revolver (usually) in a nice leather holster doesn't cause much alarm. However, if you prance about with a cocked and locked 1911 in a floppy nyon holster with no safety strap expect to scare some sheeple. When I carry any of my 1911 type pistols I carry them in a nice leather holster with a thumb break. For some reaspn no one gives me a second glance.
Now I'm talking open carry only. When concealed a thumb break may not be needed. But for open carry I want as much security against losing my tool as possible.

I guess I'm lucky living where I do. Since Everett issued their training bulletin a few years ago (2006?) it has trickled down to the smaller departments in Snohomish County. Seattle also issued a directive around the same time frame. I have heard that Tukwila PD can be rather abrasive about open carry. But that's to be expected.
__________________
ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΈ, Y'all

The "Fashion Calibers" seem to come and go but when all is said and done everybody comes back to the forty-five.
(Chris Curino - Kimber Mfg. Co.)

__________________
BluesBear is offline  
Old September 2, 2010, 01:55 AM   #17
RimfireChris
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 27, 2010
Location: Pacific Northwest
Posts: 421
Cool link BluesBear. By the way, what is that, with the Greek? letters in your sig? I've seen it around several places, but don't know what it means.
__________________
Mal-"Jayne, how many weapons you plan on takin', you only got the two arms."
Jayne-"Well I just get excitable as to choice-like to keep my options open."
RimfireChris is offline  
Old September 2, 2010, 03:49 AM   #18
BluesBear
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 17, 2004
Location: Mill Creek, Washington (The Great Pacific NorthWet)
Posts: 378
RimfireChris, Don't want to hijack but it's pronounced Mo-lawn La-vay and means "Come and Take Them", In 480BC it was Leonidas' (The Spartans) reply to Xerxes (The Persians) request for surrender. Just Google the Battle of Thermopylae.

We now return to our regularly scheduled thread.
__________________
ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΈ, Y'all

The "Fashion Calibers" seem to come and go but when all is said and done everybody comes back to the forty-five.
(Chris Curino - Kimber Mfg. Co.)

__________________
BluesBear is offline  
Old September 2, 2010, 04:50 AM   #19
Davey
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 2, 2010
Location: Not far enough from Chicago
Posts: 363
Being a life long citizen (well, minus the one year in Virginia) of Illinois those pictures blow my mind.
Davey is offline  
Old September 2, 2010, 07:18 AM   #20
Adamastor
Junior Member
 
Join Date: August 30, 2010
Posts: 3
You Americans are blessed. Can do the open carry, has a wide variety of weapons at his disposal in the stores, wide range of ammunition of excellent quality and low prices. Gripe of laws restricting, but had to have some restraint!

I'm from Brazil and here is a huge bureaucracy to get a gun. You have no idea of the size of the constraints that prevail in my country, if you lived here for two days, you'll understand what your country allows you to do and to have!

If I do the open carry, I go to jail at the same time

Stop complaining people, you are blessed!

Sorry by the english
Adamastor is offline  
Old September 2, 2010, 07:56 AM   #21
spacecoast
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 14, 2009
Location: Sunshine and Keystone States
Posts: 4,074
The TCP wedged behind the belt buckle is a little strange.
spacecoast is offline  
Old September 2, 2010, 09:05 AM   #22
MadHatter1
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 3, 2010
Posts: 151
[I]Being a life long citizen (well, minus the one year in Virginia) of Illinois those pictures blow my mind. [I]

Herein lies the problem. A citizen walking around a public market with a holsterd pistol should never, ever 'blow' anyones mind. It should be as remarkable as seeing a cellphone on a belt.
MadHatter1 is offline  
Old September 2, 2010, 07:15 PM   #23
Wolfeye
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 29, 2008
Posts: 208
My one direct experience with a LEO in regards to concealed carry here in Washington was after our house got broken into. He was giving lots of helpful advice, I was answering questions, and at one point he asks, "So you're carrying, right?" (I'm assuming he'd looked me up on his computer on the way over.)

I told him I wasn't at the moment. He advised me, "Well you should, this is exactly what it's for!"

Alas, my workplace forbids firearms, and I hadn't donned my weapon yet after getting home. He gave me a "that's too bad" kind of look.

I have seen passers-by in the wake of people who carry openly. Many people around Seattle, Bellevue, and the other major urban areas may react in disbelief, prejudice, and outright hatred. I've been there on one occasion when the cops were called. Two of my closest friends were actually scared when they found out I carry, and I'd known them for 10+ years by then. If you're out in the sticks, though, most people don't seem to care.

While WA may be an OC, shall-issue state, the average citizen is left-winged and has negative ideas about guns. My impression is that it's inconsiderate to display my piece, so I won't do so unless I know a person first. Or unless they're attacking me, but that's another matter.
Wolfeye is offline  
Old September 2, 2010, 10:37 PM   #24
NavyLT
Junior member
 
Join Date: January 25, 2006
Location: Oak Harbor, WA
Posts: 1,719
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolfeye
My impression is that it's inconsiderate to display my piece
I care enough about myself and I care enough about my family to protect us with the most effective means possible. I don't ever want to have to put my family through the occurrence of having to shoot a criminal. Remember 60%, the majority, of felons in prison interviewed stated that they would not attack a person that they KNEW were armed. If the fact that I carry a gun in a manner that has been statistically proven to DETER crime, rather than having to DEFEND against crime is "inconsiderate"; well, than I guess I am just going to have to remain the rudest bastard in the room.

In addition, to hold a belief that engaging in the act of bearing a firearm which:

1. Our founding fathers and ancestors felt was of such major importance that they added the 2nd Amendment to the US Constitution,
2. The founders of Washington State felt was of such major importance that they wrote section 24 of article 1 of the Washington State Constitution, and
3. The legislature of Washington State felt was of such major importance that they enacted RCW 9.41.290 to protect,

is scary, inconsiderate or offensive, to me is absolutely reprehensible. If someone does not enjoy the fact that it is honorable for an American to display visibly the fact that they care enough about themselves and those around them to protect them from violent criminals, then maybe that person should seek residence in Great Britain, Brazil or Mexico where they will be welcomed with open arms. Not very well protected, but at least welcome.
NavyLT is offline  
Old September 3, 2010, 03:45 AM   #25
BluesBear
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 17, 2004
Location: Mill Creek, Washington (The Great Pacific NorthWet)
Posts: 378
Quote:
While WA may be an OC, shall-issue state, the average citizen is left-winged and has negative ideas about guns.
I keep hearing that but I strongly disagree. By far the vast majority of people I've met in my dozen years in The Great Pacific NorthWet have been gun friendly. Even more so than folks back in my home state of Kentucky. Even some here who I was so sure would be anti have surprised me. And I'm not talking about folks at gun show or gun shops, I'm talking about people in the grocery, for instance I have lost ttrack of the times that the cashier at Fred Meyer has made a favorable comment to me while ringing up my magazines. Or the 80 plus year old lady at the yard sale who saw my Winchester T-shirt and asked me if I carried and informed me that she as had her permit since the 1960s!
Or the soccer dad type at Staples who walked up and said "Pssst, you shirt is up over your gun". After talking with him for a couples of minutes about open carry, he scurried back over to his wife exclaiming that THEY could carry their "other" guns since they didn't have to "keep them completely hidden". I mean these two had "the look" of someone you'd expect to freak out.

So whenever I hear about how liberal and left wing everyone is out here I figure they must mean about everything but guns.
In fact now that I think about it, I don't recall ever meeting anyone in Washington who was totally against guns. I've seen a couple of nutjobs on the news, but they were usually bleating about why anyone needed an assault rifle (of course the news story is usually about someone in their family being gunned down by the member of a rival gang). But I've never met one in person. I have meet three of four who didn't understand why people liked guns but they just said they weren't raised around them and didn't understand. But they certainly weren't anti. Of course I know they're out there, I just haven't met one yet.

Even when I was on jury duty back in June, the procecutor asked if anyone was anti gun, or if anyone believed private ownership should be restricted, of the 50 people in the room NO ONE raised a hand. And when he asked if anyone owned a gun over half of us did raise our hands.

So I say that the "average" Washington citizen is very much gun tolerant if not just out and out Pro-Gun.
__________________
ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΈ, Y'all

The "Fashion Calibers" seem to come and go but when all is said and done everybody comes back to the forty-five.
(Chris Curino - Kimber Mfg. Co.)

__________________
BluesBear is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:28 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2014 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.13567 seconds with 7 queries