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Old August 30, 2010, 09:40 AM   #1
spclPatrolGroup
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Armed Citizen's Legal Defense Network

http://armedcitizensnetwork.org/home

Is anyone a member or had to use this service? I was thinking about joining since I do not have a lawyer on hand to call in case of SD situation. But I wanted to know if this type of service is a good idea, or if I should look elsewhere. Thanks in advance.
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Old August 30, 2010, 10:27 AM   #2
Frank Ettin
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I'm a member. I think highly of the work that Marty Hayes has done. Thankfully I have needed their services, but they do produce some excellent educational material for members. I also believe that Massad Ayoob has been involved.

Marty Hayes and Massad Ayoob are both members here.
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Old August 30, 2010, 10:46 AM   #3
pax
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Link: Armed Citizens Legal Defense Network home page.

Full & fair disclosure: ACLDN founder Marty Hayes and his wife Gila are good personal friends of mine, and Marty gives me an occasional paycheck as an instructor through his firearms training school, the Firearms Academy of Seattle. I also give him an occasional paycheck because he writes for Concealed Carry Magazine. But even if we weren't friends, I would think the Armed Citizens' Network was a darn good idea whose time has definitely come! It's just icing on the cake that it's being spearheaded by people I know personally and trust implicitly.

Advisory board members Massad Ayoob, John Farnam, Tom Givens, and Dennis Tueller are all well-known in the industry and have been for many years -- guys who definitely know what they're doing and have been very instrumental in teaching and training others. So I'm very comfortable with the quality of people the Network is being built around.

The Network is not a pre-paid legal plan. It is a membership organization allied with a non-profit foundation (20% of member dues go to fund the foundation). The organization is dedicated to helping certified good guys prepare for foreseeable legal challenges beforehand, and the foundation will be available to help manage the legal situation afterward. Through their "boots on the ground" feature, they can get an expert to your location right away to help manage the immediate concerns after a shooting, and they also release an immediate $5000 so your lawyer can get started working your case. More funds will be available through the foundation on an as-needed basis, as the advisory board reviews each case. (The $5k is up front & without review; more funds can be released after review.)

I think it's a good deal and a good idea whose time has definitely come. But as I said, I'm biased because I know these people personally & trust them.

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Old August 30, 2010, 01:35 PM   #4
spclPatrolGroup
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Thanks guys, it sounds like it is a reputible organization. You never know with what you find on the internet, I will be seriously considering joining.
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Old August 30, 2010, 01:47 PM   #5
sakeneko
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My husband and I are seriously thinking about joining as well. The National Rifle Association offers a certain level of protection with membership. You might want to check that out, and if you aren't a member of the NRA, definitely join. It isn't expensive. However, I would definitely prefer to have a higher level of protection and more information about self defense legal issues. This group certainly comes well recommended. (By Pax and some other people I trust.)
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Old September 1, 2010, 02:55 PM   #6
siggygirl
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I just joined and will be meeting with legal counsel in the next few weeks. That's not part of the membership but I did get an appropriate referral from the network. Free DVDs have come and I've gotten to see Marty talk about...I can't remember..I have to watch it when I'm less sleepy. It's legal stuff about jeopardy, opportunity, ability so far. There's one in there with Massad Ayoob too that I'm looking forward to. I have enjoyed reading the online newsletter. I'll let you all know how it goes but for me it was worth the fee just to get a good attorney referral and hook up with people who can advise about the legal aspects of self defense. That may not be on everyone's mind but I'd like to continue on with my life as best I can after I use deadly force if i ever have to (hope not.)
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Old September 4, 2010, 06:45 PM   #7
27Veer
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I'm a member, one of my instructors, Dan Southard is a solid supporter of it.
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Old September 5, 2010, 09:05 AM   #8
Pond Scum
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I'm a member and so is my wife. I carry a gun to be prepared to protect myself from the bad guys. I joined Armed Citizen's Legal Defense Network to prepare to protect myself from the so called "good guys" after a shooting.

Responsible gun owners will practice their shooting skills. We need to practice what to do after a shooting. Saying or doing the wrong thing could put us in jail even if it was a legitimate self defense situation.

-Pondy
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Old September 5, 2010, 09:25 AM   #9
jmortimer
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Even if you don't join it would be a good idea to identify one or two local criminal defense attorneys who are able to handle your self-defense case if the need arises. The problem I see is that any help beyond the initial stage would come at the descretion of the ACLDN as I understand it. In any event, the best course of action post shooting might be to shut up and get an attorney. I believe you could get a local attorney for a smaller retainer to show up if trouble comes. I know a couple guys who did just that for $2,000.00. But you do get expertise for only $85.00 per year which no local attorney would have and if they decide to help you - you get expertise you probably could not afford. Good idea.
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Old September 5, 2010, 04:21 PM   #10
pax
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jmortimer,

Quote:
The problem I see is that any help beyond the initial stage would come at the descretion of the ACLDN as I understand it.
I think that's intended to assure that good guys will get help while reducing the chances that some slimeball would take advantage of the system. I think it's a good plan. Members get that immediate $5k for their lawyers right after an event, while the promise that our dues won't fund the defense of a cold-blooded murderer trying to take advantage of any further funding provides a valuable safeguard for the other members.

Ayoob, Farnam, Givens, Tueller and Hayes are definitely pro self-defense and all of them are quite capable of distinguishing true self defense from deliberate murder, so I'm willing to trust the safeguard they've put in place by saying they'll review before releasing additional funds.

Quote:
In any event, the best course of action post shooting might be to shut up and get an attorney.
One of the most valuable aspects of Network membership is the training materials they send out, a new DVD every year you re-up. The value of that material really can't be overstated.

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Old September 5, 2010, 07:44 PM   #11
Al Norris
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I wrote an article on the Armed Citizens Legal Defense Network, that was published in the March 2009 issue of SWAT Mag.

The entire idea is something that has been needed for some time now.

Most attorneys do not have the expertise to handle a self-defense case. The vast majority of criminal defense attorneys litigate from the standpoint that their client did not do the deed. In a SD case, they are litigating that you did, in fact, do the deed.

With the network, not only would you get referred to an experienced attorney, but if you already have an attorney, then that attorney can call upon the experience of SD attorneys (within the network) to get him up-to-speed on SD litigation. Both criminal and civil.

Should you need expert witnesses, the Network is there for further referrals.

So yeah, your case is vetted by the Board. They are not going to throw their resources to someone who is not truly a good-guy.
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Old September 5, 2010, 09:27 PM   #12
Frank Ettin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pax
...Ayoob, Farnam, Givens, Tueller and Hayes are definitely pro self-defense and all of them are quite capable of distinguishing true self defense from deliberate murder, so I'm willing to trust the safeguard they've put in place by saying they'll review before releasing additional funds.
...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Al Norris
...So yeah, your case is vetted by the Board. They are not going to throw their resources to someone who is not truly a good-guy....
I'm sure okay with that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pax
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmortimer
In any event, the best course of action post shooting might be to shut up and get an attorney.
One of the most valuable aspects of Network membership is the training materials they send out, a new DVD every year you re-up. The value of that material really can't be overstated.
As a lawyer (retired) and a student of Massad Ayoob's, I agree completely with pax. The material provided by the Network is first rate.
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Old September 12, 2010, 11:52 PM   #13
Marty Hayes
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Join Date: September 16, 1999
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Thank-you for all your nice comments, folks. It is truly gratifying to hear your positive comments regarding the Networki.

For anyone considering joining, please take a look at the article which is the lead article for our e-journal this month. It will explain who we are and what we do, (and how we will work for our members) more than any claims I might make. Here is the link.

http://www.armedcitizensnetwork.org/...ork_2010-9.pdf
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