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Old August 22, 2010, 04:14 PM   #1
wogpotter
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1858 "revolving carbine" were they this horrible then?

I got to actually fondle my ultimate silly rifle this past weekend.
While waiting for service at the gun counter I checked out the BP booth at Cabela's. In particular the 1858 Remington pistol/revolving rifle/carbine thingus.
Are all the butt-plates this sharply curved & generally "pointy"?
I was being poked with both the upper & lower ends without even firing the thing.
Is this a Cabela's failing or were the owners of these monsters just kinda tiny?
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Old August 22, 2010, 05:10 PM   #2
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Are all the butt-plates this sharply curved & generally "pointy"?
Yeah, with a curved buttplate the butt goes off the shoulder on the upper arm. Those points will hurt if fired off the shoulder.

Last edited by Hawg; August 22, 2010 at 05:16 PM.
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Old August 22, 2010, 07:48 PM   #3
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On the arm? That sounds awkward as all get out.
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Old August 22, 2010, 08:07 PM   #4
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On the arm? That sounds awkward as all get out.
It's not tho. I shoot everything that way.
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Old August 22, 2010, 10:47 PM   #5
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On the arm? That sounds awkward as all get out.
Your upper arm sticks out at a 90 degree angle and the butt sits just off your shoulder. If you see a rifle with a curved, pointy buttplate, that's how it was supposed to be fired.

Edit:

Here's my ca. 1902 Winchester 1894 in .32WS. On the arm, or it bites!

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Old August 23, 2010, 10:59 PM   #6
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You also have to remember, people back then were a little bit smaller and less padded than the average American is today. Sort of like an average European.
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Old August 24, 2010, 09:40 AM   #7
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But, but, I am an "average European", whatever that means.
I just tried holding a small,light carbine with a curved butt-plate that way.
Was there something wrong about the necks of those shooters? How in the heck do you get the ol' eyeball behind the sight unless you're inbred to the point of being a real pencil-necked geek???
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Old August 24, 2010, 11:50 AM   #8
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I'm 6'1" @ 200 lbs,,,

I shoot the 1858 carbine just fine,,,
You just have to scrunch up a bit is all.

.
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Old August 24, 2010, 12:01 PM   #9
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Quote:
Are all the butt-plates this sharply curved & generally "pointy"?
I was being poked with both the upper & lower ends without even firing the thing.
Is this a Cabela's failing or were the owners of these monsters just kinda tiny?
I don't know what to tell you, at 6'1" and 240 the 58 RC fits me to a T, as does all the "curved & pointy" butt stocks I shoot. The bottom end of the butt tucks in to my arm pit.


Things that are curved and pointy.


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Old August 24, 2010, 12:33 PM   #10
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I don't think I'd have a problem with most of those, except the bottom one in that last pic. It looks exactly like the one I was messing with.
My real problem wasn't the curve, nor the point, per se. It was the distance between the points.:barf:
I guess I just have pudgy pits!
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Old August 24, 2010, 01:59 PM   #11
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Good pics. The bottom one is actually the only real carbine. The others are stocked pistols.
Awkward is not just the butt plate. Holding the little extension under the trigger guard and aiming properly would be, to me, the awkward part. I have never shot one but have held. At best, they are a curiosity of history.
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Old August 24, 2010, 05:01 PM   #12
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I wondered about the hold, bearing in mind the need to keep all body parts behind the cylinder. Funny thing was it felt odd, but not difficult. After a few minutes tinkering I think that would be no problem at all for me. 'Course that's because I'd be resting the off elbow on the beer keg at all times.
I would be taking a Dremel to that brass though, shame really.
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Old August 25, 2010, 09:16 AM   #13
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The Remington revolving carbine has a lot more curve in the butt that most others I have seen.

As far as holding, you get used to it quick. Your face is close to the sparks and flames so shooting glasses are a must, a glass of water to douse beard fires is nice to have. I use a two hand hold on the grip and find I can hold the gun rock steady. If I can lean against a tree I can be deadly out to 100yds. For me a shoulder stock well reduce group sizes by one half.
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Old August 26, 2010, 05:07 AM   #14
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I bought one of the revolving carbines a few years ago. Although it looks a bit odd and awkward, it actually points and shoots quite naturally. As stated a post or two ago, "deadly out to 100 yards". I've shot 1 lb. coffee cans out to 100 yards without a miss.
Plus, the fun factor on this firearm is way up there.
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Old August 26, 2010, 06:35 PM   #15
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I recently saw a catalog that had the Berreta Stampede Buntline Carbine listed as a close out which I had never even seen before:

Photo and product page:

http://www.proguns.com/beretta-stamp...inecarbine.asp
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Old August 26, 2010, 08:08 PM   #16
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Did they even HAVE them then? Only revolving carbines I have ever seen were stocked 3rd Model Dragoons and 1860 Armys, there was the Colt Revolving Rifle with the Root (?) side hammer. The Berdan Sharpshooters were issued them initially, they didn't like them IIRC.
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Old August 26, 2010, 09:31 PM   #17
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Remington made something like a couple thousand of them starting in 1866.
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Old September 3, 2010, 01:47 PM   #18
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Quote:
a glass of water to douse beard fires is nice to have
That just about had me rolling in the floor!

Quote:
at 6'1" and 240 the 58 RC fits me to a T
I too am 6' 1" and closer to 240 than I like to admit. My '73 Winchester, made in 1891, snuggles into my shoulder just right. When I shoulder it and drop my cheek to the stock, the sights are lined up perfectly.

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Old September 3, 2010, 02:32 PM   #19
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Horses!

It seems that everyone forgets the Horse when wondering about old "cowboy" style guns.

The origanals were designed around and for guys shooting while mounted horseback (and often chasing/fleeing at a full gallop for ones life..lol) The cresent shape hooked around your arm just between the bicep and shoulder will very securely lock the rifle in firing position (with one hand/arm) while holding the reins in your other hand. You can fire fairly accrurate shots and still use the sights from this postiton...(and keep your seat on your horse)

Try that with the shotgun butt and you will soon be without your rifle or you will resort to tucking it under your armpit.
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Old September 3, 2010, 05:39 PM   #20
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Quote:
I recently saw a catalog that had the Berreta Stampede Buntline Carbine listed as a close out which I had never even seen before:

Photo and product page:

http://www.proguns.com/beretta-stamp...inecarbine.asp
I have one of these and I love it. It did take some getting use to, but I must say, at 75 yards, it'll knock some pretty nice holes in the target. I am gonna have to ask the wife to save the coffee cans....
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Old September 3, 2010, 06:04 PM   #21
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What is that pretty light color curly maple stocked BP rifle at the top?
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Old September 4, 2010, 06:32 AM   #22
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That's a .54 Mowrey. Fine gun, actually; wish I had one.

Do a forum search on Mowrey - there's a thread about it started by the owner, madcratebuilder.
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Old September 5, 2010, 08:49 AM   #23
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Pointy Stocks

Shooter could slip a recoil pad over the end to facilitate shooting from the familiar shoulder mount position, take it off for display. IMHO of course. Also, there are slip on, with strap,,shoulder pads that can be adjusted to fit most anywhere on ones shoulder area, and not having tried mine, I think one could slip it down to cushion the position so many recommend on this thread. Would feel awkward though, I am pretty sure. One thing I do know for sure is that I am not going to compromise my safety to shoot any firearm (concerns of side blast and cap shrapnel are real concerns IMO)

I saw a Winchester .401 reproduction at the gunshop the other day. It had a rather pronounced curved butt plate. No way I would fire that beast from my arm between the bicep and shoulder muscle, that is where we kids used to hit one another when caught farting. Hurt like hell and bruised the bone. Maybe not with BP loads but smokeless? No doubt in my military brain housing unit not a good thing to do. Having a one shot experience with a friends 450 Marlin load from a lever action Winchester (thats right Winchester) is enough to convince me to find a way to always get a long gun snugly secure in that hard shoulder muscle God gave us to shoot firearms accurately with and get steel on target.
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Old September 5, 2010, 12:30 PM   #24
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Having a one shot experience with a friends 450 Marlin load from a lever action Winchester (thats right Winchester) is enough to convince me to find a way to always get a long gun snugly secure in that hard shoulder muscle God gave us to shoot firearms accurately with
I guess it's what you're used to. I shoot my hot loaded 30-06's, 12 gauges with no recoil pads and quite a few rounds from a NEF 450 Marlin off my upper arm. I wouldn't dream of shooting my blueprinted Hawken any other way. Those points look deadly
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Old September 5, 2010, 06:44 PM   #25
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Seen this?

http://www.remingtonsociety.com/rsa/...ngRifles/?na=5
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