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Old August 21, 2010, 08:47 AM   #1
"JJ"
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Competition gun research

I am just a bit curious as to what guns you guys use (manufacture, caliber, barrel length & capacity) and why.

To get started in USPSA, I will just use my factory S&W SW9VE I have now.
I know not much of a competition gun but it is what I have.

But I want to see how I like competition shooting before I invest a wad of cash!

Some of the ones I was looking at were the:
S&W M&P9
S&W S&D9
CZ 75B
Beretta 92FS

I will admit I am a bit partial to S&W!

I know those of you who have "race guns" have a LOT invested in your guns.
I am looking at competing in limited division.
I want to compete with my carry or HD handgun.

I am open to all suggestions and experiences!
Thanks!!
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Old August 21, 2010, 09:27 AM   #2
Jim Watson
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Quote:
I will just use my factory S&W SW9VE I have now.
Smart move, that will get you into USPSA/IPSC Production with no problem.

If you want to move up to Limited you need a .40 cal for Major Power Factor and the biggest magazine possible. The STI Edge is probably the most popular in the Division. There are some Glocks set up for Limited. A S&W Plastic M&P Pro .40 would be good if you could get a "big stick" magazine for it at the maximum 141 mm length.

The magazine factor would be simplified by entering Limited-10. There are a LOT of decent guns for that. A CZ-75 Tactical Sport is a very nice gun.
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Old August 21, 2010, 09:52 AM   #3
SavageMOA
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I shot my service length M&P 40 in limited for a while before moving to my race gun.

The M&P I made very competitive in Limited division by getting some stuff from

www.speedshooterspecialties.com

The guy focuses on S&W stuff.

I can't stress enough that you don't have to have a race gun to be competitive in Limited. Just ask Dave Sevigny or Bob Vogel.
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Old August 21, 2010, 11:56 AM   #4
kraigwy
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Quote:
I will just use my factory S&W SW9VE I have now.
I know not much of a competition gun but it is what I have.
Sounds like you answered you question. Shoot the Sigma and spend other money on rounds down range.

I'm a firm believer in shooting what you carry in action type matches. If I was Monark of the Western Hemisphere, I would make it a law that all cops had to compete with their service revolver/pistol. Same with any who carry concealed.

I carry a 642 but there arnt many matches for those little stubbies. Close as I can come is I shoot a Model 64 in ICORE matches. Still, next time I might try it with my 642, or at least pay the extra $3 to shoot a second gun.

No way I can be completive, but I bet it teaches me to shoot my pocket pistol better.
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Old August 21, 2010, 12:40 PM   #5
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Jim gave you some good advice and I believe you are doing the smart thing by using what you now have to see if you like competitive shooting or not.
By the way if you need any gear I have a lot of used items such as mag pouches, holsters and belts at some very good prices.
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Old August 21, 2010, 05:07 PM   #6
"JJ"
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Great info & links guys!

Another question.
Do you have to shoot major power factor to shoot limited?
Isn't there a minor there also?

I was thinking I could shoot limited so I could use my 16rd mags.
Which aren't allowed in production, right?

Before I get scorned for not reading the rules, I did!!
I read all the match rules at USPSA.
Some of the things I assumed I understood.
We all know what assuming does!!
I would rather have it confirmed than show up with the intention to shoot & be told otherwise.

I still want to know what others are shooting!!
Keep'em coming!!
Thanks again for the help!
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Old August 21, 2010, 09:11 PM   #7
Jim Watson
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Sure, you can shoot minor power factor in any USPSA Division. Won't matter if you can shoot all As at full speed. If.

All calibers are scored minor in Production.
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Old August 21, 2010, 09:30 PM   #8
"JJ"
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But in production I can't load over 10 rds right? I think I will be ok in limited, its not like I am expecting to win the competition. I will be in competition with myself. I just hope to improve a bit each time! Thanks again for the help!
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Old August 21, 2010, 10:06 PM   #9
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Yes, and in Limited (not Production) I will shoot 19+1 in my G-35 in Major (3lb trigger) and at 62 years old in some courses can beat you. You shoot minor in Limited you will get moved to the back of the line. I also have a Para 16-40 with a Schumann barrel inletted .1 inch that will do 20 rounds of .40Cal at 10MM Length 200Gr bullets with a 2lb trigger that easily will make 165 PF with Fiber Optic Front Sights and a Ghost Ring Rear Site.
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Old August 22, 2010, 04:55 AM   #10
"JJ"
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Quote:
and at 62 years old in some courses can beat you
I don't doubt that for a second Steviewonder1!!

Now what do you mean by,
Quote:
You shoot minor in Limited you will get moved to the back of the line.
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Old August 22, 2010, 06:04 PM   #11
"JJ"
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Well I got to handle the 4 guns I mentioned today at the Dallas Gun Show.
All of them feel & look nice!
I like the grip & ergonomics on the M&P & S&D.
The S&D has a lot better price.

The CZ & Beretta both were nice as well, but like I said in the begining,
I"m a bit partial to S&W!!

The grip on the M&P was what I had heard all the fuss about.
I guess it goes to show ya...
...different strokes for different folks!!
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Old August 22, 2010, 07:23 PM   #12
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The SD is basically the same as your Sigma. Save you money. The M&P is a step up in gun. If you like polymer pistols then look at the Springfield XDM.
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Old August 22, 2010, 07:47 PM   #13
"JJ"
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I am not sure I would go with the SD for a competition gun anyway.
BUT, it is similar to my Sigma only in the ergonomics.

1)It has a completely different & better trigger.
The new SDT "Self Defense Trigger!!
Some members have claimed better than the M&P.

2)Tritium Front Night Sight & the sights are the same as M&P so I assume can be interchanged.

3)Picatinny-Style Rail. Not the Sigma only rail.

4)Agressive front(?) & rear slide serrations.
* Not sure why a gun needs front slide serrations.

5)The grip has front and back strap texturing making it feel different than the Sigma & M&P.

I like the M&P better all the way around, except the price!

I do agree with you here though.
Quote:
The M&P is a step up in gun.
Thanks for the input!!
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Old August 22, 2010, 08:44 PM   #14
Jesse Tischauser
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I think the best gun is an S_I double stack type custom built gun which I plan to purchase as a reward to myself when I get bumped into A class next year.

For the time being I shoot a G34 in Production, S&W 625 in revo, G17 w/slide ride STS in open, G35 & G24 in limited and L10. I also have a G34 built like limited gun that I use for 3 gun.

I had a M&P9 pro and an XDM9 and my G34 when I first started. I choose the glock because it shot the best for me.

All of my Glocks have been stippled, triggers done, undercut trigger guards, beavertails Dawson sights, magwells etc installed professionally by Mike Cyrwus at Accurate Iron.
If you go the M&P route he can make this triggers almost 1911 like.

Last edited by Jesse Tischauser; August 22, 2010 at 08:51 PM.
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Old August 23, 2010, 07:57 AM   #15
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I think you are on the right track starting with what you own. Get in and get your feet wet before you decide what you want to buy so you will have a frame of reference on what division and and what type of gun you are interested in.

Personally if I would not be scared away from production if I was you. Limited is fun since you have a lot of rounds but after a few matches you will get frustrated if you like to compete and are shooting minor.

Also find some IDPA clubs in your area as well and shoot what you have in SSP or ESP.

AS far as the guns you are looking to buy......I competed with a M&P Pro all last year and it is a good platform. I also use a CZ 75B for IDPA and it is a fantastic gun for the price. The CZ has a good amount of parts available to customize them if you want also.

The big thing when just getting into it is don't spend a ton of money until you know what you want, have a bunch of fun, and be safe.
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Old August 23, 2010, 08:17 AM   #16
"JJ"
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Great info! I couldn't find a IDPA with in 100 miles from me! The USPSA is about 20 miles away in the next town so it will have to do for now. Now help me out here. The difference I saw between major & minor was I think a "B" hit score of 4 & 3 respectively. Is there more advantage to shooting major?
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Old August 23, 2010, 08:34 AM   #17
Strick
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The difference is just the scoring

Major Minor
5 A 5
4 B 3
4 C 3
2 D 1

You can have a good time and still compete shooting minor but if you really get into it you may find that dropping points for the same hits as others, because you are shooting minor, frustrating. Plus if you are only loading 15 rounds then you are also disadvantaged. Many if not most Limited shooters are loading 20+ rounds.

In production everybody shoots minor.
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Old August 23, 2010, 08:50 AM   #18
"JJ"
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So not a problem, I'll just shoot all "A"s!! Cool deal, I will look further into the production class. Is it ok to use the 16rd mags & just load 10rds?
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Old August 23, 2010, 08:53 AM   #19
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Yes, you can use 16 round mags loaded to 10 in production.
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Old August 23, 2010, 09:04 AM   #20
"JJ"
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Thanks for your help Strick!!
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Old August 24, 2010, 09:00 PM   #21
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Out of all your options listed, my vote would also be for the M&P. I really like the CZ's for competition because of the all steel frame, however the da/sa will hurt you in the long run.
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Old August 25, 2010, 06:17 AM   #22
Jesse Tischauser
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Strick's advice is right on the money. He is obviously a very good shooter and a student of the game.

If you go to a match ask the guys around you to see their guns. I dint know anybody that wouldn't jump at the chance to show off their gear. Heck if you do it after a match most guys will toss you a mag and so you can shoot it and see how great their trigger and sights are too.

Try to put your hands on the guns.
STI
M&P9 L or Pro
CZ75B
Glock 34/35
XDM9/40

The most popular gun in uspsa is easily a STI double stack style. 2nd Glock 34/35 followed by the M&P9. The M&P is going to give Glock a run for that 2nd place spot once they get an M&P40 Pro for the Limited and L10 divisions.
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Old August 25, 2010, 06:28 AM   #23
Jesse Tischauser
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The only other advice someone needs to give you is that after you shoot 3-4 matches and decide to get serious in the sport get a competition training class under your belt ASAP. With 2 days of solid training your practice time will be headed in the right direction much faster.
I have taken Mike Seeklanders Competition Pistol Course up at USSA in Tulsa. I just took Phil Strader's competition pistol class in OKC area a few weeks ago. Both guys are excellent shooters and teachers. Phils class is a bit cheaper right now because he just getting his new Straighter Solutions training deal off the ground. I have also taken a competitive 3 gun course with Kurt Miller and Trapr Swonson from Red Neck Tactical. These guys are greatcwuth a pistol and even better with a shotgun and rifle. They will be teaching some classes in the OKC area later this year as well.
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Old August 25, 2010, 07:14 AM   #24
"JJ"
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While the STI line looks like some really nice guns, they quickly accelerate out of my price range. Not saying it wouldn't be an option after a year or so of competition, just not at this point. I have seen the M&P 9 in the $450 range. I would love to have a M&P 9L or Pro which would bump the cost up a bit. Thanks for all the great info guys, it has been a great help!
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Old August 25, 2010, 08:54 AM   #25
Jesse Tischauser
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You can find slightly used 9pro's on the Brian Enos forums classifieds regularly. They usually run $450-500 used and often times come with extra mags and/or mag pouches and upgraded sights. I sold mine to a buddy for $400.

If you buy new get the 9L. Here's why. The 9L is $50 less than the Pro and its the same gun as the pro except for the sights and the trigger. Even though the sights and trigger are slightly better in the pro series they are no where near as good as the Warren or Dawson sights nor is the better trigger anywhere close to as good as a custom trigger job from somebody that specializes in M&P's like Accurate Iron.
So save $50 on the 9L vs. the pro and spend that $50 later on to get your $100 sights and $100 trigger job.
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