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Old August 9, 2010, 11:08 AM   #1
sixgun67
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Concealed/open carry

Yesterday, the wife and daughter walked into a quick stop/convenience store for some items. While inside, a couple guys walked in to purchase some refreshments also, but one guy was open carrying in a hip holster. Well, obviously people start to buzz about it, so he explains to clerk he's there to do business, not for any ill reasons. And, here is what I'm puzzled about. He tells her it is not the only gun he's carrying, and proceeds to move his shirt and show her his concealed weapon, while his buddy chimes in that he's carrying concealed also. Why on earth would you want to announce that you are carrying concealed? To me, I know everybody had already seen his holstered gun, but wonder if his showing of his concealed weapon 'could' be considered brandishing in a populated store. The clerk let them stay in, but deli clerk had to get her little diggs in by telling him that 'if you'd shown that thing to ME, I'd have thrown oil in your face'. Wow---two things come to my mind instantly. Overreacting crowd, and concealed carriers that blab about carrying. Kinda negates the advantage, yes?
Any opinions on this? I'm pretty sure(not 100% positive) that North Carolina is an open carry state, which is not my worry as much as the dudes blabbing and showing their concealed guns. I will NEVER show my concealed weapon
unless a cop wanted to see it. Period.
sixgun

Last edited by sixgun67; August 9, 2010 at 12:10 PM.
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Old August 9, 2010, 11:32 AM   #2
paull
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Probably new to the game...
When I first bought a car with the ability to smoke the tires, I did it quite often.
Now I am much more concerned with fuel milage.

I suspect the novelty of carrying will wear off.

I don't sweat issues like this.

p
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Old August 9, 2010, 11:44 AM   #3
Uncle Buck
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I have opened carried when I am working on the farm and need to run to town and pick up a few things. Only comment I ever got was from the lady at our local Murphys Gas Station. (She said that my gun was cute!)

I think a lot of it is people just showing off, like the smoking tires.

If you are allowed to open carry, do it because you want to, not to show off. If you have a concealed carry, keep the darn thing concealed. Go about your business and there is no need to be calling attention to yourself by talking loudly or showing off.

I sometimes wonder if some of these people lie in bed at night dreaming about saving the world with their gun...
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Old August 9, 2010, 11:48 AM   #4
aroundchicago
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Unless you live in Alaska or live in an area frequented by large bears, I never understood the purpose of open carry. How does it make sense to give up a tactical advantage?
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Old August 9, 2010, 12:00 PM   #5
ScottRiqui
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In some circumstances/locations, your choices are going unarmed, carrying openly, or concealing illegally.

Here in Virginia, it's only been since July of this year that we've been able to carry concealed in restaurants that served alcohol. So, I frequently carried openly into restaurants rather than leaving the gun in the car.
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Old August 9, 2010, 12:23 PM   #6
Aguila Blanca
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aroundchicago
Unless you live in Alaska or live in an area frequented by large bears, I never understood the purpose of open carry. How does it make sense to give up a tactical advantage?
When the temperature is in the upper 90s and the humidity is right up there with it, having to wear a cover garment is decidedly uncomfortable. I would gladly give up the mythical "tactical advantage" in favor of being armed and (somewhat) comfortable.
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Old August 9, 2010, 04:35 PM   #7
sixgun67
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This store recently gained new management, and hopefully they won't use this incident as a reason to post signs disallowing weapons. I cannot say in my 10 years of doing business with them that I've heard of a robbery there, and in my opinion, signs only let the bad guys know that they have free reign.
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Old August 9, 2010, 04:35 PM   #8
Uncle Buck
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Quote:
Unless you live in Alaska or live in an area frequented by large bears, I never understood the purpose of open carry. How does it make sense to give up a tactical advantage?
I do not carry for any tactical advantage. My biggest threats come from rambunctious goats and lumbering cows when I open carry. The revolver is another tool that is used on the farm.

When I move bales of hay, barrels of feed, or am pushing through some underbrush, I sometime kick up critters I do not want around. It is easier for me to draw from the hip holster than to fumble around underneath clothing for my gun.

I am assuming your question is a legitimate one. Also, somewhere here in the forum there was a news article about some guys who held off on a robbery they were going to do, because the folks inside the restaurant were open carrying.

Different attitudes persist in different parts of the country. Look at the Starbucks open carry issue that the Brady folks were trying to push not too long ago.
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Old August 9, 2010, 04:43 PM   #9
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Quote:
How does it make sense to give up a tactical advantage?
There is no tactical advantage carrying concealed vs. open carry, in fact, you have a quicker draw time with open carry.

Quote:
When the temperature is in the upper 90s and the humidity is right up there with it, having to wear a cover garment is decidedly uncomfortable. I would gladly give up the mythical "tactical advantage" in favor of being armed and (somewhat) comfortable.
Today 12:00 PM
Zactly !
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Old August 9, 2010, 05:39 PM   #10
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There is no tactical advantage carrying concealed vs. open carry, in fact, you have a quicker draw time with open carry.
I was practicing drawing from concealment today at the range, and the truth of the above statement was very obvious. It's one thing to draw from an open hip holster, it's another thing to use my left hand to grab and lift the tail of my shirt and then pull the gun with my right. Probably 1/3 of the time the shirt would snag on something, so I'd tell myself "you're dead." Just gotta keep practicing to get it right. Hope I never have to use the skill but if I do I want to have it.
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Old August 9, 2010, 05:44 PM   #11
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I think that both open carry and concealed carry have there place. I think we as a group need to consider the impact of carrying openly and creating fear and shock. That said however doesnt mean one couldnt become a known customer of store x or place x and then over a period of time work in the open carry.

I think if one did it when there were few customers or people enjoying a park ect.. and then over time you became known by the general patronage you could become a positive force for open carry. I do however think it requires some thought and consideration.

Now if your just bound to storm in with a firearm in the open carry in a place where you have the right, I will support you because a right is a right but its maybe not as constructive as it could be.

I think if we can create a warm inclusive feeling with non carriers we can do alot of good for our cause.
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Old August 9, 2010, 05:50 PM   #12
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I carry openly about a third of the time and indifferently concealed about a third. Someone notices my openly carried gun at most once a year.

When someone does notice my gun, I use it as an opportunity to teach the Second Amendment and the advantages of keeping and bearing arms. I sincerely believe America would be a safer, saner, happier nation if everyone saw law-abiding American citizens openly exercising our Second Amendment rights every day.
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Old August 9, 2010, 06:06 PM   #13
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I think a lot of it is people just showing off, like the smoking tires.
Sounds like this guy was either showing off or trying to push the limits. Most likely he was just smoking the tires though. I hope the novelty wears off soon for him though.
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Old August 9, 2010, 06:26 PM   #14
dreamweaver
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[QUOTE]There is no tactical advantage carrying concealed vs. open carry, in fact, you have a quicker draw time with open carry.[QUOTE]

gotta disagree with the first half of that statement.
during a robbery, the bad guy has his gun out when he declares his intent. if he see's my gun hanging on my waist, i'm his first target. doesn't matter how fast i can draw, i'm getting shot if i try.
with my gun concealed i can draw when his focus isn't on me.
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Old August 9, 2010, 07:16 PM   #15
Aguila Blanca
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BGutzman
I think that both open carry and concealed carry have there place. I think we as a group need to consider the impact of carrying openly and creating fear and shock. That said however doesnt mean one couldnt become a known customer of store x or place x and then over a period of time work in the open carry.
I agree ... we DO need to consider the "fear and shock." And that is precisely why more people should open carry, as much as possible, whenever and wherever it is legal.

Consider -- the soccermoms of the world (or the U.S., anyway) have been brainwashed by "the media" to think of GUNZ! as evil, and those who carry GUNZ! as criminals. As long as we law-abiding citizens insist on ensuring that Suzie Soccermom NEVER EVER sees a law-abiding person wearing a sidearm, she will have no cause to rethink that conditioning. On the other hand, if she can see decently-dressed, well-groomed citizens wearing GUNZ! while going about their daily routine -- stopping at the bank, pumping gas, shopping at Wal-Mart or the supermarket -- she may eventually be led to wonder if, just maybe, the media lied to her and that NOT all people who carry GUNZ! are mad-dog serial killers.

"Desensitizing" is psychological term.
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Old August 9, 2010, 08:36 PM   #16
Sefner
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Originally Posted by Aguila Blanca
I agree ... we DO need to consider the "fear and shock." And that is precisely why more people should open carry, as much as possible, whenever and wherever it is legal.

Consider -- the soccermoms of the world (or the U.S., anyway) have been brainwashed by "the media" to think of GUNZ! as evil, and those who carry GUNZ! as criminals. As long as we law-abiding citizens insist on ensuring that Suzie Soccermom NEVER EVER sees a law-abiding person wearing a sidearm, she will have no cause to rethink that conditioning. On the other hand, if she can see decently-dressed, well-groomed citizens wearing GUNZ! while going about their daily routine -- stopping at the bank, pumping gas, shopping at Wal-Mart or the supermarket -- she may eventually be led to wonder if, just maybe, the media lied to her and that NOT all people who carry GUNZ! are mad-dog serial killers.
This is the sentiment of most OCers. Most OCers don't do it because "they can" in order to get attention. Most OC'ers are normal people like CCers. The difference is where they tuck in their shirt. But this is most OC'ers. To OC'ers, these guys in OP are what the CC badge guys are to CCers.
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Old August 9, 2010, 09:04 PM   #17
jhco50
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Unless you live in Alaska or live in an area frequented by large bears, I never understood the purpose of open carry. How does it make sense to give up a tactical advantage?
I have been carrying openly for a couple of weeks now. I live in Colorado and it seems we have been getting almost a shooting a day lately. Also, as a side benefit, people don't try to run you off the road on your scooter.

I am not out to create a stir, I just want to excersize my freedoms. I don't really care what other people like or think and prefer they just leave me alone. I have carried in convenient stores, gas stations, pawnshops, etc. the only time it was mentioned was when my wife and I were looking at RVs and the salesman wanted to know the gun laws so he could have a gun. He didn't want to carry it, just have one.

Whether a person decides to carry or not depends on that person, and how he does it should be his decision. If he carries just because he wants to, that is fine too.
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Old August 9, 2010, 09:09 PM   #18
jhco50
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.....during a robbery, the bad guy has his gun out when he declares his intent. if he see's my gun hanging on my waist, i'm his first target.....
How many robberies have you been in? You sound like all of the sports companies...everything is tactical.
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Old August 9, 2010, 10:03 PM   #19
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It's all in how you present your self,his intintions were a bit guffy but it's his right and i would support that.


A short story about a lady who came into my walmart .She was kinda tall,slinder,well maintained.She was walking by and i stopped to look,it's then that i saw it a S&W ladysmith model 60 in a nice little leather holster.She was openly carrying and it didn't seem to bother anybody at all.

When i was at my last walmart a couple came in with the same intentions as the lady,just some shopping.The couple were harrassed because they thought they looked rough.He was wearing a biker vest,boots,scruffy beard,a Taurus in a cheap uncle mikes clip on holster that flopped around as he walked.

Moral of the story,the more clean and neat you appear,the better you hold your self with pride the less likely you will get harrassed for openly carrying.

I have openly carried only 3 times but i have always worn a polo shirt,khaki shorts or pants and a nice leather holster carrying a Glock or S/S S&W.Each time i did so,nothing happened,well mabye a look or 2 but no one ran,cringed,screamed,or even gave a second look.If i had to do it again I wouldn't think twice about going so far as to wear a shirt and tie.
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Old August 9, 2010, 10:34 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aroundchicago
Unless you live in Alaska or live in an area frequented by large bears, I never understood the purpose of open carry. How does it make sense to give up a tactical advantage?
http://www.gunfacts.info/pdfs/gun-fa...-5.1-print.pdf
Page 30:
Fact: Every day, 550 rapes, 1,100 murders, and 5,200 other violent crimes are prevented just by showing a gun. In less than 0.9% of these instances is the gun ever actually fired.

Page 31:
Fact: 60% of convicted felons admitted that they avoided committing crimes when they knew the victim was armed. 40% of convicted felons admitted that they avoided committing crimes when they thought the victim might be armed.

Fact: Felons report that they avoid entering houses where people are at home because they fear being shot.

and
http://www.examiner.com/x-5619-Atlan...ry-in-Kennesaw

I would rather deter a crime being considered against me rather than defend myself against it once it has started. Why would a criminal CHOOSE to attack a visibly armed person or a store where there is a visibly armed person present when they can go down the street one block, or wait two minutes for the armed person to leave and find a plethora of targets that are not visibly armed?

Criminals do not want to get caught or get shot. Picking the target that is known to have a gun does not lend itself to accomplishing either of those goals. The "element of surprise" is an offensive tactic. A visible show of overwhelming force is a strategy of deterrence.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BGutzman
I think if we can create a warm inclusive feeling with non carriers we can do alot of good for our cause.
How is that warm and inclusive feeling ever created if those "shocked and fearful" never see a normal, everyday American carrying a gun? The attitude that guns should always be hidden away only promotes the idea that guns are evil things that should be kept hidden.

BTW, those guys described in the opening post were idiots, IMHO. Just let those open carried guns stay in their holsters and let those concealed guns stay concealed. I also don't particularly care how you choose to carry your gun, that's a decision each person makes for themselves.
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Old August 9, 2010, 10:47 PM   #21
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gotta disagree with the first half of that statement.
during a robbery, the bad guy has his gun out when he declares his intent. if he see's my gun hanging on my waist, i'm his first target. doesn't matter how fast i can draw, i'm getting shot if i try.
with my gun concealed i can draw when his focus isn't on me.

copied from post #14

Getting shot first has never happened in actual holdup.
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Old August 10, 2010, 12:17 AM   #22
Jeremiah/Az
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I believe that those guys were way out of line. I carry both OC & CC. No one has ever said anything or reacted to me OCing, but this is Az. & you see it all the time. I am an old man that walks with a limp. Does my OCing deter anyone from bothering me? I will never know!
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Old August 10, 2010, 03:20 AM   #23
Bud Helms
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This belongs in T&T.

Moving ...
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Old August 10, 2010, 05:13 AM   #24
mete
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I remember the case in PA where a couple was in a bank and the man carried concealed. Two BGs came in to rob the bank. The wife , in a loud whisper, told her husband 'don't draw your gun' .The BGs heard that and immediately killed him !!
Most of the OC people are childish 'look at me I have a gun ' !!
Here in NY you MUST carry cancealed. With all the anti-gun hysteria walking in a mall with a gun will cause panic .
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Old August 10, 2010, 09:27 AM   #25
NavyLT
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mete
Most of the OC people are childish 'look at me I have a gun ' !!
I find it very interesting that most of the comments such as above come from people who live in states such as below:

Quote:
Originally Posted by mete
Here in NY you MUST carry cancealed.
Maybe those types of comments should be reserved for people who actually live in states where people do open carry. And, of course, the Brady Bunch says exactly the same thing about concealed carriers.
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