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Old August 6, 2010, 04:45 PM   #26
cap-n'-baller
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So, Dense-ster I can see where you got your name. As you have now ignored my request to address the questions in the orignal post as well as misquoting my posts, mocking those who are offering their advice, and calling me a liar. I am requesting that you stop posting on this thread.

Articap- Yes, my pistol is the stainless steel Pietta with 12" barrel. The finish left a little to be desired out of the box (some machining marks still visible). Other than that it has been a pleasure to shoot and of course clean. Perhaps it is the long barrel and adjustable sights that account for the "unbelievable accuracy" that other poster here seem to find so hard to swallow. . Also, I've heard great things about the Buffalo Bullets except for one, they are very difficult to find. I tried Track of the Wolf, and Dixie Gun Works and they say the production is very sporadic and they will not have any for months. Thats why I was looking for a more reliable source. Does Buffalo sell moulds?
The Buffalos sure seem to have out done the Lee bullets in the test you posted. I wonder if a lesser charge (35-37grs)for the larger Lee bullet might have resulted in better accuracy. Only one way to find out.
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Old August 6, 2010, 05:02 PM   #27
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As far as the buffer and wad goes all I can tell you is what works best in my pistol. I have shot without one or the other or both. With a charge that gets me the velocity I want for hunting this combination works best. I will be shooting some next week and will try an additional wad between the buffer and the ball. I will also be trying some Lee conicals next week.
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Old August 6, 2010, 05:08 PM   #28
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Happy to oblige. For the record though I didn't call you a liar, nor did I mock anyone who gave you advise, nor did I misread your posts. You asked me what posts I thought were nonsense. I told you and why they were nonsense. You're response was name calling. And that's the way it is.
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Old August 6, 2010, 05:26 PM   #29
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Somehow I knew you would need to try to get the last word in as well as a final accusation. Happy Trails.
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Old August 6, 2010, 06:53 PM   #30
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Since we're talking about loads & accuracy, here is a target I shot at the 2010 Prince of Pistoleers CAS Match in Lanexa KS.

5 rounds at 10 yards, off hand (Duelist) using a Taylor/Uberti 1861 Navy loaded with 20 grains of fffg Grafs powder, Oxyoke .36 cal Wonder Wad (The last of my stash), BPstuffllc cast .380 round ball, Treso nipples and #10 Remington caps. 3 rounds touching and two flyers. You can also see where 4 of the 5 wads hit the target. All loading done with flask using a pistol stand and installed loading lever.



You don't need all that other cr....... stuff

FM
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Old August 6, 2010, 07:59 PM   #31
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Fingers- When you seat the balls in your .36 do they sit flush with the top of the cylinder? Do you think this matters regarding accuracy/consistencey?
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Old August 6, 2010, 08:33 PM   #32
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The Buffalo bullets are definitely better than the bullet designs with a very narrow driving band. My experience has been that when a bullet has a narrow driving band it can twist out of alignment during its seating into the chamber- obviously not good for accuracy. Along the same lines that's why I think a slightly larger ball- the type that shears off a ring during the seating, is good- a little more contact area with the rifling. I think the bullets will normally beat the balls at the longer ranges although in rifles some guys shoot very good groups at 100 yards with a PRB.
A few years ago I made up about 100 small paper tubes with fitting caps. I use a reloading scale and weigh every charge (I use black powder not volumetric substitutes). All the tubes go into a reloading box- kept upright and taken to the range. It may be mental but I have had better accuracy with the carefully weighed charges.
On the wads. I cut some of my own and experimented with various lubes. Now I use the pre-lubed wonder wads. I think the biggest benefit of the wad is it helps prevent gas cutting and improves accuracy.
As I said, I tried the cream of wheat fillers, etc but the heavier charges seem better in my case so I omitted the filler. With the thick wads the charge is moderately heavy- I can hear a slight crunch in seating the ball.
As I said, I put a line on the ram to seat the balls at the same depth. The idea about being near the end of the cylinder is to reduce the "jump" into the rifling and therefore have better accuracy.
I've only shot pistol in a couple of State Events and one hand- off hand was my recollection, the guy next to me on one event had a flintlock and if I recall at 50 yards off hand he was getting around 6" groups. In any event I'm sure you can better 4" off a rest. As far as other handguns, my experience has been better than 4" groups at fifty yards when using a rest.
I've never weighed the balls to check for voids, etc but that would be one more step towards accuracy.
Speed up lock time? I suppose the hammer could be lightened or a stronger replacement spring used. I too would be interested in knowing what others do for top accuracy.
And...some other things would pertain to handguns in general. A range rod can test chamber alignment with the bore. The forcing cone angle might play a role as well.
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Old August 6, 2010, 10:55 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cap-n-baller
Fingers- When you seat the balls in your .36 do they sit flush with the top of the cylinder? Do you think this matters regarding accuracy/consistencey?
No, with 20 grains and a wad, they sit around 3/16 inch below the mouth - that's a guess, I've never measured it. I give the loading lever a full stroke when seating so the rammer bottoms out.

I've never shot revolvers in precision/bullseye competition, and I've never been anal enough to compare, so I have no first hand knowledge of whether the ball being flush with the chamber mouth makes a difference. There is no way to totally eliminate ball jump between chamber and barrel. All you can do by seating flush is reduce it. I personally do not think it makes enough difference to matter. But, I've been wrong before. Besides, I'm happy with minute of paper plate accuracy for what I do.
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Old August 7, 2010, 04:13 AM   #34
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I don't use fillers either. I've never had a gun I couldn't pretty much keep within three inches at 25 yds. offhand. As for Lee conicals I like them but all I have a mold for are .36's. They're slightly tapered and load easily and straight.




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Old August 8, 2010, 12:40 AM   #35
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Those three bullets- are those the Lee Conicals? The overall shape looks good and the heavier weight ought to be better for hunting. How's the accuracy compared to RBs?
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Old August 8, 2010, 11:18 AM   #36
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Got my pistol out, filled one cylinder to the top with Shockey's Gold, poured that out and measured it. Came up with exactly 60grs. Not sure what all the confusion is about this. Try your own experiment and see what you come up with. I'm also unsure about the idea of pressing a ball (or conical) over that load in anything other than a Walker, or ROA.

For those of you intersted in trying some conicals, here is a post from Raider2000. I am ordering some of his bullets (the .450 200 gr.)this week and look forward to trying them out as soon as they arrive.This post is a few years old so some of the info has changed. Apparently he has had to raise his prices due to demand and they are now $20.00 per 100 including shipping. Also he has a larger selection of bullets available than are listed and they are available to ship immediately. He has been quick to respond to any questions I have had. You can search his posts on this site to view the whole thread, there is some good info in it.

.44 caliber bullets for sale.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hi all.

A thought come to my head on the THR forums that some people may not cast their own Balls & Bullets for their muzzloading fun & may not have access to a conical for their .44 caliber C&B revolvers.

At the moment my 200gr. Lee .450 diameter conical mold in out of commision but if intrest comes about I'm willing to acquire another one for this but I do have the 220gr. Lee .456 diameter conical they both are excellent bullets for general shooting & increased striking energy for hunting purposes.

The 200gr. conical will load nicely in most .44 caliber C&B revolvers with it having a heeld design making the first ring about .442 then the next about .446 & the last .450.

The 220gr. conical will load nicely in many Uberti .44 caliber C&B revolvers & is an excellent bullet for the Ruger O.A. & like the 200gr. conical is of heeled design, .447 then .451 & lastly .456.

I'll sell 100 rounds unlubed for $11.00 + $6.00 for shipping to anywhere in the lower 48 U.S. states

Now remember if any one is interested in the 200gr. conicals the first order will take 2-3 weeks b ecause of having to acquire a new mold but the 220gr. conicals are available now & will ship imediatly.

If interested please PM me or email me at raider.2000@yahoo.com
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Old August 8, 2010, 07:51 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cap'n'baller
Got my pistol out, filled one cylinder to the top with Shockey's Gold, poured that out and measured it. Came up with exactly 60grs. Not sure what all the confusion is about this.
Well, part of the confusion stems from:
Quote:
Originally Posted by cap'n'baller
I could easily fit over 60grs. of powder in there!
We typically quote powder capacities that allow one to also load a projectile, so I expect that many, like me, assumed you meant 60 grains under a ball or bullet of some sort. And I think you'll have to agree that saying 'easily fit over 60 grains' is a bit of an exaggeration from 'filled ... to the top with...exactly 60 grs.', yes?

So you see, as a new member, since we have little else to use in judging your veracity, you've picked up a bit of a reputation for hyperbole, and the 4" 50 yard group from a bench claim is viewed with some, well, skepticism.

Not trying to bust your chops here, just passing along what I hope will be viewed as some helpful information.

By the way, my Euroarms 1858 Remington chambers hold 40 grains by volume of fffg Goex, settled by tapping the chamber and the measure but not compressed, just like I do when I load it. It was loaded flush with the top. Now my 3 powder measures don't agree exactly, varying by as much as 13% at worst; I used the 'middle' measure, but even at 13% error, that's still only 45 grains. Perhaps your measure is a bit off?
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Old August 8, 2010, 08:10 PM   #38
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Quote:
Those three bullets- are those the Lee Conicals? The overall shape looks good and the heavier weight ought to be better for hunting. How's the accuracy compared to RBs?
Yeah they're Lee's. Accuracy is good. This was at 25 yds.


But there's only five holes you say. Well the sixth wasn't exactly a miss.



Here's an unfired one and a recovered one.

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Old August 8, 2010, 08:32 PM   #39
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Tweaking C&P pistols

Hey Noz who or where can you have C&P pistols tweaked? Gus
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Old August 9, 2010, 04:57 AM   #40
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Gus;
I tweaked my own Pietta NMA for my own purposes to load the larger .456 Lee conicals & .457 ball, including smooting up the innards, re crowning & throating the barrel & now to me she shoots better than I can ever get.

I know that the boys over at Taylors do some work but I'm not sure what they will do or how much they charge.
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Old August 9, 2010, 12:29 PM   #41
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Mykeal - Point taken. I have never calibrated my powder measure. It is possible that it is off. I was wrong to say that the chambers "could easily hold more than 60grs" without having measured it out exactly. I based this on the fact that after loading 35 grains of powder and a lubed wad I was still able to put close to 30 grs. of cornmeal in there. The cornmeal is much finer than my powder so I did not take that into account (the coarser powder does not settle nearly as much as the cornmeal when tapped). That said, I stand by the 4" groups. This is not intended as a boast. I intended this to be a starting point from which I could improve with the help of more experinced C&B shooters. I recognize that my pistol is different than most of the ones others are shooting that are contributing here. I believe that a pistol with a 12" barrel and adjustable sights should be more accurate than an exact period replica. Shouldn't a 50%-70% ( assuming a period replica having a
7-8" barrel) increase in sight radius and increased velocity (due to more time in the tube with accelerating gasses rather than larger charge) result in more accurate shooting?
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Old August 9, 2010, 03:30 PM   #42
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gus3836

I do my own tweaking!

If you don't have a tweak tool, Fingers can sell you one. Unless you shoot a 44. He has only tools for 36 cals.
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Old August 9, 2010, 06:47 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NOZ
If you don't have a tweak tool, Fingers can sell you one. Unless you shoot a 44. He has only tools for 36 cals.
I'm currently out of stock right now Noz. My supplier is on vacation and left no contact info for where he went. He does this to me all the time. I may have to find a different supplier that will abide by the buy southern clause in the contract.

I've been working on the prototype for a .44 tweaking tool and would like you to do a proof of principle field test on it for me to see if it would be viable if put into production.
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Cynic: A blackguard whose faulty vision see things as they are, not as they should be. Ambrose Bierce
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Old August 10, 2010, 09:18 AM   #44
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I have my own design that is secret but would be honored to field test yours.
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Old August 10, 2010, 10:02 AM   #45
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Tweak tool

What ever it is I want one if nothing more than to say I have one! What is it? Gus3836
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Old August 10, 2010, 04:19 PM   #46
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Old August 10, 2010, 05:18 PM   #47
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Where's a leg-pulling smilie when you need one?
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Old August 11, 2010, 08:50 AM   #48
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Had my pistol at the gunsmith's place the other day. He looked my pistol over and recomended reaming the forcing cone (it is visibly out of alignment with the barrel). He also suggested crowning the barrel. Both of which are fairly simply done as long as proper time, tools, and preperation are used. Could result in greater consisitency. Any one had experience with these procedures and there results? I would prefer to hear from folks with practical experience regarding this one.
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Old August 11, 2010, 09:02 AM   #49
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Well at the risk of being told to not post here, this is something I have experience with. If the forcing cone is visibly misaligned you could benifit from having it recut to align it. It will require your gunsmith to make a bushing for the cutter rod that closely fits your barrel as the ones sold with the kit are not designed for these barrels. Crowning is only useful if the end of your barrel is out of square with the bore and with the accuracy you report that is unlikely. That likely falls into the "if it aint broke don't fix it " catagory.
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Old August 11, 2010, 09:26 AM   #50
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Thank you for that usefull information Denster. I apologize for 'name-calling' earlier and your productive comments are welcome. I was looking at the bushings sold at Midway and Brownell's for .44s and.45 and was concerned about a good fit given the unique size of most BP pistol barrels. What pistols have you done this with and what were your results?

Last edited by cap-n'-baller; August 11, 2010 at 12:00 PM.
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