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Old July 30, 2010, 10:33 AM   #1
Hardcase
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A Pardon for Billy the Kid?

Emotions are still running a little hot, I see!

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2010/07/30...don-billy-kid/
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Old July 30, 2010, 12:15 PM   #2
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I wonder what the reason or grounds for the pardon are?
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Old July 30, 2010, 05:53 PM   #3
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Well in a hundred years they might pardon Manson.
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Old July 30, 2010, 06:38 PM   #4
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Billy the Kid wasn't Manson. Not even close.
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Old July 30, 2010, 07:21 PM   #5
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Billy the Kid wasn't Manson. Not even close.
Good point - Billy the Kid actually murdered someone.
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Old July 30, 2010, 07:55 PM   #6
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Follow the money. Someone down there knows that thier tourism plans will be more successful if they can advertise "Billy Pardoned" and market it for bucks. They got the Governor in on it lol, there's some money involved.
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Old July 30, 2010, 08:08 PM   #7
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As someone who owns a house south of Tucson, AZ and who lives there six months during the winter, I am fully away of the "Illegal" problem, I find it amazing that the Governor of NM has the time to "waste" on this nonsense when there are far more important issues to address in regards to state unemployment, poor economy, border prob lems, etc. Bear in mind that the "border problem" is not unique to Arizona . . . it exists all the way from Texas to California. At least our Governor out there had the balls to get a state law passed to help address the problem - something which the clowns in Washington, DC WILL NOT DO - and then they "gut" it. Perhaps if the Governor of NM spent more time, along with the Governor of Texas, and all passed similar laws, Washington would get off their ass and do something. I am all for those coming into this country LEGALLY . . . . I am sick and tired of paying for welfare, health care, education, etc. for those that don;t. Now this clown in NM wants to pardon Billy The Kid? I wonder if BP is putting pressure on him to do it like their alleged pressure on GB to release the Lockabee Bomber? Billy The Kid was a cold blooded killer and Garrett did everybody a favor. If the Governor of NM has all this time to devote to this nonsense, I invite him to come to AZ and he can help pick up the literally thousands of backpacks, water bottles, dirtyt diapers and other assorted garbage that the illegals leave laying around the beautiful Sonora Desert - better yet - maybe we should gather the backpacks, water bottles, dirty diapers and garbage and ship them off to Washington, DC and deposit them on the White House lawn.

Sorry for digressing on this subject - stupid politicians just really **** me off! What's next . . . . pardons for any convicted perp who kills a law office? Give me a break . . . . . . .
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Old July 30, 2010, 08:18 PM   #8
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Good point - Billy the Kid actually murdered someone.
At least four solely and was one of several gunmen to kill 5 more (which could count as being charged for murder today), then a couple possibles.

He rustled cattle, a big deal at the time, committed armed robbery, had multiple jail escapes, and several other lessor crimes. He wasn't a good person.
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Old July 30, 2010, 08:28 PM   #9
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He was also not any worse than most other people of the time and place. One of the jail guards Billy "murdered" was himself a known murderer. The point is, while I don't think he should be pardoned Billy the Kid was not even the most wanted man in New Mexico at the time. He was #11 on the governer's wanted list. Bob Olinger the afore mentioned jail guard, was a known cattle rustler and murderer. This is historical fact. Billy the Kid was an arrogent punk that got involved in one of the many range wars of the time, did some bad things like everyone else involved in the "war", then when it was over he drifted into open outlawry and continued to thumb his nose at the law. Then he died. Pretty much sums it up.

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Old July 30, 2010, 09:02 PM   #10
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I find it amazing that the Governor of NM has the time to "waste" on this nonsense
That's it in a nutshell.
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Old July 30, 2010, 09:55 PM   #11
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!

From bedbugbilly and Model-P
Quote:
Quote:
I find it amazing that the Governor of NM has the time to "waste" on this nonsense
That's it in a nutshell.
I can't believe I wasted my time on it!:barf:
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Old July 30, 2010, 10:11 PM   #12
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FWIW, there is also some question as to whether Pat Garret killed Billy at all. There was litigation going on to have the corpse purported to be that of William Bonney exhumed along with that of his mother and DNA testing to be done. The theory being that Garret let the kid escape and there is another fellow in the grave. Here is an MSNBC report stating that the claimants were dropping the case.
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Old July 31, 2010, 11:51 AM   #13
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Maybe the tourism folks could put pressure on Texas Gov. Perry to pardon Sam Bass or even Bonnie & Clyde. It's a election year, can't rule it out.
Follow the money, indeed.
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Old July 31, 2010, 12:13 PM   #14
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Richardson has been trying to do this "pardon Billy the Kid" crap since 2004 at least. Idiot! (Richardson)
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Old July 31, 2010, 04:31 PM   #15
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Despite this pardon issue, the NRA endorsed Richardson as the pro-gun Democrat Presidential candidate.
I remember watching him speak out on Meet The Press about how being pro-gun was an important issue for him because they're part of the culture of the American West. He did hold his ground on gun rights which was admirable.

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Old July 31, 2010, 08:29 PM   #16
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Just another place to throw tax payers money, the Government needs to spend,spend,spend they cant stand it.
Does anyone know a viable reason for a pardon for a murderer????? Murder is murder right? Or, a I'm sorry but my Great Grandfather was a murderer but I think if he was alive today he would be sorry, he deserves to be pardoned????

I dont get it!
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Old July 31, 2010, 09:19 PM   #17
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I remember as a kid (50 years ago) reading that Billy the Kid killed 21 men, not counting Indians and Mexicans. Not much PC back in those days. Anyhow, here is a page I just read on Billy, fact versus myth for anyone interested. Good read.
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Old July 31, 2010, 11:06 PM   #18
Gator Weiss
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There is too little information to pardon Billy the Kid.

There is not enough fact at hand to make a pardon for Billy the Kid.

I was a little bit surprised at the comment about Charles Manson from one of the other posters.

Manson organized the murders and sent people out to commit murder. That is illegal.

In one set of murders, Manson actually came to the scene, participated in tying up two victims, and then ordered their deaths as he left the scene. His associates then carried out the murders. Manson took a wallet and a credit card from the scene and dumped it in a black neighborhood to try to spark a race riot. He wanted people to think black people committed the murder of whites. This is not the Sharon Tate murders. This is a different set of murders.

There is an old saying; "as long as they make coffee, Manson will remain in prison and not be paroled." This saying is based on one of the victims in the Sharon Tate residence, and that would be a murdered woman named Emiline Folger - heiress to the Folger's Coffee foundation.

Dont ever come off with this crap that Manson is a victim. Manson is a murderer many times over. His participation and role in the crimes directly resulted in the commission of multiple murders intended to spark race wars. The evidence was presented in the people's court. A jury ruled on it. It was confirmed on appeal. His associates confessed and told of his role as well. There is no reason to let such a man loose from prison and he was originally condemned to death. He was only saved by California's liberal stench of ruling the death penalty cruel and unusual punishment. His sentence was then commuted to life.
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Old July 31, 2010, 11:15 PM   #19
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Quote:
I was a little bit surprised at the comment about Charles Manson from one of the other posters. (...) Dont ever come off with this crap that Manson is a victim. Manson is a murderer many times over.
I think you're referring to my post. I'm no Manson apologist - I'm glad that he's going to be in prison until he dies.

My post was more of a tongue-in-cheek commentary on the earlier poster who said that BTK was "not even close" to Manson. I was just pointing out that his statement could easily be read either way (and be true either way.)
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Old August 1, 2010, 02:59 PM   #20
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I doubt they'd even find the grave. I'm thinking I heard the marker had even been stolen once and they were never sure it was replaced in the proper location. Besides it took most of Jesse James teeth to get enough dna to even test and he had a proper burial. Times were different then. Who's to say what anybody else would have done given the times and circumstances. You can't judge a man who's been dead 130 years by todays standards. Billy from most indications never saw his 21st birthday. Does he deserve a pardon? Maybe, maybe not. I doubt there will ever be enough concrete facts come to light to make that decision. IMHO Billy wasn't a bad man. Most if not all the people he killed were in self defense. Bob Olinger was killed during a jail break to escape being hung. How many of you would kill a man today to escape being hung if you had the chance? Or would you just go to the gallows peacefully?
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Old August 1, 2010, 04:29 PM   #21
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Any way you slice or dice it, Billy the Kid was a psychotic killer, he was not just a misunderstood kid from a rough neighborhood. It is highly doubtful he killed 21 men, that's Hollywood and the dime novels but the fact remains he did murder several men in cold blood. He was also a horse thief, cattle rustler and petty thief. To pardon him for the tourist trade would be a grave miscarriage of justice, even at this late date. Just my opinion and I have others
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Old August 1, 2010, 05:23 PM   #22
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I thought the possible pardon is only about murdering the deputies, not about every crime he ever committed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawg Haggen
How many of you would kill a man today to escape being hung if you had the chance? Or would you just go to the gallows peacefully?
I think that I would carve a pistol out of a bar of soap and cover it with shoe polish and use it to take a prison guard hostage and then bust out of jail!
Does that scenario ring a bell?

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Old August 1, 2010, 05:41 PM   #23
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Dillingers was wood was it not?
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Old August 1, 2010, 05:41 PM   #24
arcticap
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I thought that in the movie the gun was a bar of soap.

I did check and you're right, it was a fake wooden gun. But it wasn't his first escape conspiracy and some guards were killed that first time. That first chapter of his first escape plan is described last:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Dillinger

Quote:
The police boasted to area newspapers that the jail was escape-proof and posted extra guards to make sure. Louis Piquett, John Dillinger's attorney, was able to sneak a wooden gun within the prison and into the hands of Dillinger. Using it, he was able to trick a guard into opening his cell. He then took two men hostage, rounded up all the guards in the jail, locked them in his cell, and fled. Before leaving, Dillinger said to the guards he locked up, "See what I locked all of you monkeys up with? Nothing but a little piece of wood. Well, so long, boys. I'll have to be moving on."[30] Dillinger stole Sheriff Lillian Holley's new Ford car, embarrassing her and the town, and traveled to Chicago.
About the earlier escape:

Quote:
Tracked by police from Dayton, Ohio, he was captured and jailed in Lima. After searching him before letting him into the prison, the police discovered a document which appeared to be a prison escape plan. They demanded Dillinger tell them what the document meant, but he refused.[5]

Dillinger had helped conceive a plan for the escape of Pierpont, Clark and six others he had met while previously in prison, most of whom worked in the prison laundry. Dillinger had friends smuggle rifles into their prison cells which they used to escape, killing two guards, four days after Dillinger's capture. The group known as the "first Dillinger gang" included Pierpont, Clark, Charles Makley, Edward W. Shouse, Jr. of Terre Haute, Harry Copeland, James "Oklahoma Jack" Clark, Walter Dietrich and John "Red" Hamilton. Three of the escapees arrived in Lima on October 12, where they impersonated Indiana State Police officers, claiming they had come to extradite Dillinger to Indiana. When the sheriff asked for their credentials, they shot him and beat him unconscious, then released Dillinger from his cell. The four men escaped back into Indiana where they joined the rest of the gang.[5]

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Old August 1, 2010, 05:53 PM   #25
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Any way you slice or dice it, Billy the Kid was a psychotic killer, he was not just a misunderstood kid from a rough neighborhood. It is highly doubtful he killed 21 men, that's Hollywood and the dime novels but the fact remains he did murder several men in cold blood
Billy killed four men on his own. Two in self defense and the two officers he killed to escape hanging. He was credited with some he had no part in.
He was involved in the deaths of five other men but he wasn't the only one shooting so you can't credit him with those either. Accessory yes. To call him a psychotic killer requires a very vivid imagination.
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