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Old August 3, 2010, 10:13 AM   #1
booker_t
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Active Shooter Training

Has anybody on the forum taken Active Shooter Training through work? I know many employers (both public and private) have been taking a more aggressive posture to prepare their employees to deal with an Active Shooter, and likewise taking steps to intervene with employees/associates who could potentially become an Active Shooter. I am working on a briefing to be delivered tomorrow and wanted to get any feedback possible.

The frequency of these events is disturbing. The causes are varied. This morning, a shooter opened fire at a beer distributor in Connecticut, killing several.

http://www.comcast.net/articles/news...tor.Shootings/

Once my briefing is complete, I will distill it down to bullet-points for discussion.
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Old August 4, 2010, 10:32 AM   #2
Don P
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From the news report this morning the family stated that it was racially motivated. The shooter stated racial tension at work.
No matter what the reason it is a tough one to prevent.
As far as employee's handling this at work with most companies having policies against firearms on property there is no way that I can see to stopping a shooter. Just my opinion here except for the news report.
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Old August 4, 2010, 01:43 PM   #3
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From personal experience, when a company I worked for (a mini-blind manufacturer) fired someone, they would make certain that I was posted in the office, behind the person being fired. I was armed. The 'boss' who did the actual firing was also armed at the time of the firing. I would then escort the ex-employee out of the building, having him/her walk in front of me.

My job was in sales, so I was not a 'known' security person. All was kept under the radar.

This way we minimized the chance of an office shooting during the firing process.

Nobody besides the two of us were aware that we were armed. Ever.
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Old August 4, 2010, 01:58 PM   #4
Longdayjake
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Quote:
As far as employee's handling this at work with most companies having policies against firearms on property there is no way that I can see to stopping a shooter. Just my opinion here except for the news report.
You can bet that if a company has a union representative at the firing then the company also has a no firearms policy.
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Old August 4, 2010, 07:00 PM   #5
Glenn E. Meyer
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There's a large literature on this and a fair number of CDs.

Most avoid having armed employees. They stress barricading, fleeing and if you must fight - use stuff in the environment. Like the recommended laptop frisbee defense. :barf:

But towards the suspected bad employee.

1. Treat with dignity.
2. Don't make a display of letting him or her go. No frog march.
3. Don't give them a big speech how they stink and what they did. Tell them you are sorry that they have to be let go. If you can smooze with economic services - try that - if not, still be polite and sympathetic.
4. Help with transition if you can, explain Cobra benefits if appropriate.

Look at for the next few days and on the anniversary date of specific incidents. Tell everyone if they see the person return, no fooling around - hit the panic button, lock down if he's outside - call the law.

Just a quick take. If an armed person gets in and you are armed - don't run into an ambush or shout and scream. Do what you have to do efficiently and crisply. Ignore the wounded if he's active and you have to deal with him.

Also, there are no guaranteed predictors of a rampage except actual threats. If someone makes those and you do know of weapons gathering, that's a worry. Liking guns with no threats hasn't been a predictor.

See if the guy or woman has made threats. Tell employees that if they still have contact after the firing - to inform someone about them.

If you can have armed employees - then they need to have significant FOF training if you expect to be interventionist. No need for commandos, folks who freeze, don't know how to use cover, etc.
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Old August 4, 2010, 08:32 PM   #6
45ACPShooter
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Is there any particular reason why handguns are used so much in these events? I just think it's odd because everyone talks about how rifles and shotguns are more effective but it's pretty rare I heard about a work place shooting with someone armed with something other than a handgun.
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Old August 4, 2010, 09:48 PM   #7
357 Python
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Not yet but I'm being scheduled for an Active Shooter Instructor class at FLETC later in the year.
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Old August 4, 2010, 10:28 PM   #8
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Well, the no firearms policies sure don't prevent the shootings, do they? We've had a few similar shootings here in last 10-20 years.

Someone asked about handguns; long guns would usually be too difficult to hide until needed.

There are no guarantees anywhere, but I think the best we can all do is run workplaces as fairly as we can, treat fellow employees with respect, respect subordinates, etc. Those are the simple rules of decency that establish mutual respect with most people. We should be aware of people who seem really strange and somehow disconnected, can't fit in with others, etc.

I remember 1 case here, at IBM. I actually felt a little sorry for the guy. He was a Vietnam vet, had PTSD. I don't remember well, but it seems IBM found out and fired him simply because he had the disorder, not because he'd done anything wrong. Well, he went off the deep end and I forget how many people he killed. IBM might well have pushed him over the edge.

I usually have little sympathy for such defenses, but treating someone unjustly sometimes drives a borderline person toward violence.
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Old August 4, 2010, 11:18 PM   #9
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ncpatriot - how long ago was that PTSD/vet incident?

And - hello from one IBMer to another.
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Old August 5, 2010, 11:03 AM   #10
Glenn E. Meyer
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Workplace avengers - trigger - feel that they have been treated unfairly by an authoritarian work environment.

They don't perceived their misdeeds as such. Motivation - revenge and peculiar form of altruism. They are teaching the bosses a lesson so others won't be treated that way.


Long guns have been smuggled in - TX Tower - or just used as a rampage charge.

You also see:

1. Love goes awry - crazed stalker from inside or outside the workplace
2. Woman hater - targets women - sometimes tells the men to leave and kills and/or assaults the women.
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Old August 5, 2010, 05:44 PM   #11
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Hutto, I think that was the early 80's, at one of their Research Triangle Park, NC facilities. Think his name was Richard Avery, don't quote me on that. That was 1 of our first workplace shootings in this area. We also had 1 of the first school shootings in the nation. Norma Jean Russell, 16, shot at Northern High School by a boy she'd befriended but didn't want to go out with. That was 1986.

I never worked for IBM, but in later years I did projects there for the co. I worked with. Worked on Building 1 remodel & Executive Briefing Center.
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Old August 5, 2010, 06:03 PM   #12
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Hutto, I finally found it. August, 1982. Leonard D. Avery killed 1 person and wounded 4 others. I knew IBM had fired him before the shooting, but it was years later that I was told they routinely fired people with the disorder, and fired him when they found out he had it. I had a supervisor at an office where I worked that knew a friend of his or something like that. Does routine firing sound familiar in your facility?

He's still serving a life sentence. Corrections website shows no earlier offenses, so he surely wasn't a career criminal. He's among the few I have some sympathy for. He'd fought in the war as he was ordered and got shafted for having PTSD, when he'd done nothing wrong. As I understand it anyway. I wasn't there & didn't know anyone involved.

Story is in NY Times online for 8-31-82. Stiil trying archives for our local papers. Nothing yet.
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