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Old July 31, 2010, 08:47 PM   #1
Big Tom
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A ? on Hollow points.

In a SD situation do I have to use hollow points? I am in DE, and I dont know if thats what I have to use. I am carrying a .380 and think that for extra penetration FMJ would be best, am I wrong? And do I have to use hollow points?
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Last edited by Big Tom; July 31, 2010 at 09:01 PM.
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Old July 31, 2010, 09:44 PM   #2
orionengnr
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I see that you are a new member and I have seen a number of your posts recently asking a lot of questions.
Most of the these questions can be answered easily by following this one rule:

Do a search first.

Then ask a question.

There are literally thousands of posts here that will answer this (and many other) question(s).
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Old July 31, 2010, 10:00 PM   #3
Terry A
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Big Tom,
You can choose to load your mags with whatever YOU feel will be best for YOU, your skill level and the type of pistol you carry.

My wife has a KelTec .380 and she carries FMJ. Why? For that particular pistol, FMJ ammo seems to feed more reliably than HPs. Also, in the .380 round, penetration is your friend. HPs, striking a thick leather jacket or heavy coat, will not penetrate as well as the FMJ. The wound channel for the FMJ, at least as far as I'm concerned, is plenty ample.

Now, this is how I feel about this, however, many others prefer some type of HP ammo for THEIR .380.

Here's a good read.....
http://www.ktog.org/cgi-bin/yabb2/Ya...m=1209241627/0

Bottom line is get some different types of ammo, shoot 'em thru your weapon of choice and keep notes.

That's part of the fun of being a gun owner and shooter!

Good luck in your search for the perfect match of bullet to YOUR pistol!
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Old July 31, 2010, 10:49 PM   #4
Big Tom
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Orion,

I couldnt find anything, I googled for hours, got tired of looking. I now have a gun, it will not be put in m name until I am 21. It is the Bersa Thunder .380 with nickle finish. Cant wait to shoot it, and I wasnt sure if you legally HAD to carry HP for SD or not as I would prefer FMJ.

Terry,

thank you for the link. The reason why I asked is because for .380's HP's cost a helluva lot of money.
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Old August 1, 2010, 06:11 AM   #5
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Quote:
I googled for hours,
I think he was referring to the SEARCH button on top of this page, not GOOGLE
Quote:
.380's HP's cost a helluva lot of money.
If your life isn't worth a few boxes of HP ammo, perhaps you should rethink this whole CCW thing...
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Old August 1, 2010, 06:18 AM   #6
ISC
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There is no law against using FMJ (full Metal Jacket) ammunition for self defense. The only law re FMJ ammo I can think of is a prohibition against using it to hunt with in most states.

I wouldn't worry about under penetration with HP vs FMJ ammo for a .380. Maybe with a .32 in the winter if the bad guy is wearing a thick leather jacket and is fat, but otherwise it's not likely to be a problem.
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Old August 1, 2010, 08:16 AM   #7
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Our concealed carry instructor in Kansas recommends hollow points because that is what the police use. If you would ever have to shoot someone, there will be a lot of questions asked by a lot of authorities. To take the ammunition variable out of the equation, using the same ammunition as the police use solves that problem. Avoid handloads for any carry guns, except to practice with.

That said, there is no law or problem with using FMJ that I know of. All things being equal, hollow points are considered more effective.
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Old August 1, 2010, 08:49 AM   #8
Big Tom
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Smince,

I never said anything about it not being worth my life. I dont think you read the post correctly. What I am saying is in my opinion the FMJ is cheaper and is also better for use in a smaller caliber. Winter is just around the corner again and everyone will be wearing their big old jackets and several layers of clothes. So FMJ I think would not be a bad idea.

And to Gliesmann and ISC, I am just thinking that in the winter perhaps something with more punch would be better? Just wondering. Thou I may pick up a box of Federal HP, Hornady HP, and Remington Golden Saber HP. If they work good then hey maybe I found a good SD load after all...
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Old August 1, 2010, 09:01 AM   #9
noyes
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I vote for FMJ in all my firearms , except the few that it's hard not to fine HP's in , like 454.
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Old August 1, 2010, 09:01 AM   #10
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I have the same mindset as you......I use several pocket 380s for SD and I use the standard FMJ rounds (I prefer Sellier & Bellot ammo) for self-defense. Less issues feeding ammo, cheaper, and most importantly for me I get more PENETRATION with FMJ vs. hollow points. With a small, relatively slow .380 round, I need all the penetration as I can get out of it. Most "field tests" I've seen have convinced me for MY NEEDS, the FMJ gets the penetration I want. YMMV
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Old August 1, 2010, 09:04 AM   #11
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you can load them with whatever you want..doesnt have to be a hollowpoint
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Old August 1, 2010, 10:06 AM   #12
g.willikers
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The Corbon DPX has a good reputation for both penetration and expansion.
But the equipment takes a back seat to training and skill.
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Old August 4, 2010, 08:36 PM   #13
Mr. Davis
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There's no legal requirement for you to carry any particular kind of ammunition.

Traditionally, hollow point bullets are preferred for self-defense, while full metal jacket bullets (which are cheaper to manufacture) are used for target shooting.

With .380ACP, I have personally chosen to carry FMJ instead of HP ammo. .380 is a notoriously poor penetrator in the hollow point loadings I'm familiar with, which is why I'm going for penetration over expansion.

Ultimately, ensure whatever ammo you carry functions flawlessly in your gun.
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Old August 4, 2010, 10:33 PM   #14
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FMJ works in everything. It is the round that will function if others do not. But if you are going to use your pistol for self defense you are most likely going to be close to your target. Even a round traveling at 900 fps is going three football fields a second. That round will penetrate at close range if it is fmj or hollow point. So as others have said, use what works best in your pistol.
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Old August 4, 2010, 10:48 PM   #15
Edward429451
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Quote:
If your life isn't worth a few boxes of HP ammo, perhaps you should rethink this whole CCW thing...
That's a little harsh, don't you think? In mousegun calibers like the 380 there's a school of thought that fmj is your friend because it feeds more reliably and penetrates better than HP's. The OP leans towards this camp of thinking. Makes sense to me.

I'm in this camp. I think that small calibers you should have fmj, and the larger calibers don't need hp's lol. True story ;-)
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Old August 4, 2010, 10:55 PM   #16
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If you are going to carry a 380, I would recommend Hornady Critical Defense, the round is close to 9mm in performance and while it is considered ball ammo, it performs like a hollow point.

I remember responding to several shootings where 380 was used, one guy shot 8 times in back with FMJ, he was still walking around and very angry about being shot. One of the rounds fell out of the wound when we sat him down for the medics to work on him. Having tested the Critical defense ammo, it is all we would allow our officers to carry in 380 guns.

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Old August 4, 2010, 11:26 PM   #17
katana8869
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Quote:
If your life isn't worth a few boxes of HP ammo, perhaps you should rethink this whole CCW thing...
I keep telling myself that if I work real hard at it, one day I can be one of the cool people making statements like this on the internet.... They all sound so cool and it really starts these silly newcomers off on the right foot


Not.
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Old August 5, 2010, 01:29 AM   #18
midlandwalther
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I would consider a fmj or hardcast. The hardcast offering from Buffalo Bore is a good load but might not feed due to the flat profile.
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Old August 5, 2010, 07:10 AM   #19
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JHPs, .380acp 9mmNATO-.40-.357sig

I'm not aware of the DE state laws or city/county ordanances-bylaws about pistol rounds but for the .380acp, I'd suggest a Magsafe Horandy Critical Defense Glaser/Corbon Safety Slug or at the least, a Winchester Silvertip 85gr JHP. To me, the .380acp is a poor selection for a main sidearm/protection weapon. In 2010, you can find or buy a great 9x19/9mmNATO .40S&W or best; .357sig carry pistol.
A SIG P239 DAK a PX4 Subcompact, a Glock 26/27/33(with a NY-1 trigger) or a HK P2000sk LEM would be very good.

See www.handgunlaw.us or www.NRA.org for state gun laws/information.

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Old August 5, 2010, 07:45 AM   #20
booker_t
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Call the DE State Police and ask, or look on the DE.gov website, they have the state code and firearms statutes that will give you state-specific information.

I'm fairly certain DE has no restrictions on FMJ. In a .380 semi-auto, I would carry FMJ, with a heavy-for-caliber projectile, and one reload. Any shots taken will likely be at very close range, and accuracy beyond 7 yards is unimportant.

That said, I think you'd be better off with a Glock 23 (.40S&W) or Glock 30 (.45ACP). And some training, both general, and specific to carrying a trigger-safety firearm.
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Old August 5, 2010, 04:49 PM   #21
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As usual, people can't resist badgering an OP about his choice of self-defense caliber, because he's dared to admit to carrying a caliber that doesn't start with a "4". Many have chosen to ignore his question in favor of veering the thread off track.

Nobody here knows why the OP has chosen .380ACP as his self-defense firearm, and frankly, without knowing those details it's flat out rude and presumptuous to lecture him about the need for a fancier whiz-bang caliber.
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Old August 5, 2010, 05:05 PM   #22
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My wife carries a Bersa CC .380 and for better or worse our tests from 25 feet thru 12 inches of wet phone books show pretty good results with FMJ and with Hornady Critical Defence. FMJ cleared the books but were on the ground right behind the books and Hornady expanded fully without fragmenting about 2 inches shy of the end.

These are not professional tests, I know it's not popular, and I carry larger caliber, but I think the .380 is good enough to get you out of a tough situation

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Old August 5, 2010, 05:20 PM   #23
TylerD45ACP
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I would not carry 380 FMJ as primary SD. I could see you having a reload with it filled with FMJ(very practical). However, for you first mag I think you should get some nice hollowpoints, you want the energy to dump in the body. You don't want a through and through. Thats just my opinion, Im not making fun of your caliber. Personally I like the .380 1908 Colt would love one for carry. Carry a reload with FMJ so you can switch up if you need more penetration and have time to switch.

Last edited by TylerD45ACP; August 5, 2010 at 05:56 PM.
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Old August 5, 2010, 05:40 PM   #24
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Quote:
Mr. Davis: As usual, people can't resist badgering an OP about his choice of self-defense caliber..Many have chosen to ignore his question in favor of veering the thread off track..
After reading your post, I re-read the entire thread. I cannot find one instance of somebody "chosing to ignore his question" and badgering the OP about his caliber choice. Nearly everyone discussed .380-specific ammo, and some discussed issues about feeding HP vs FMJ.

Quote:
Mr. Davis Again: without knowing those details it's flat out rude and presumptuous to lecture him about the need for a fancier whiz-bang caliber
I feel this is directed at me, so I shall respond. If I am wrong, then in future include a quotation when you are addressing other posters in a thread.

My first two paragraphs spoke specifically about the Delaware State laws, which the OP asked about, and then described the type of projectile that would be favorable for a .380 platform with justification for those parameters. The specific choice of brand is left up to the user after some trials, as their particular firearm may prefer one over the other.

In the third paragraph, I added an additional comment that there are other calibers that can be launched from equally concealable platforms that will, under the same conditions, out-perform a .380 in terms of immediate incapacitation, which is dependent primarily on damaging the CNS.

In order to damage the CNS, a projectile must achieve sufficient penetration and deliver sufficient energy to damage the structure, assuming shot placement is equal. Neither a Glock 23 .40S&W or Glock 30 .45ACP are "fancier whiz-bang calibers," or platforms, they are calibers that have proven themselves with well over 100 combined years of immediate incapacitation of attackers, and platforms that are concealable and perform admirably.

When the OP admits problems researching whether FMJ is legal to carry for SD, I am going to make an assumption that they probably aren't well versed in the biology and physiology of ballistic injury mechanisms. Providing that information for them to consider when making decisions in the future is not rude, it is part of why forums like this exist, to share information.

Last edited by booker_t; August 5, 2010 at 05:47 PM.
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Old August 5, 2010, 06:02 PM   #25
TylerD45ACP
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Booker T, thats how I feel. When I saw he was talking about FMJ as the primary SD rounds I thought he might be uneducated in ballistics as well. The purpose is to provide knowledge to someone who needs it about a firearm. FMJ as a SD round is a no no. I said before that your going to get penetration but no energy dump. Get some good 380 gold dots +p in your chosen bullet weight. Id say 85-90gr. is the way to go.
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