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View Poll Results: You have seriously injured an innocent person:
I hold both moral and financial responsibility for the injuries caused by my bullet. 47 74.60%
I hold moral but no financial responsibility for the injuries caused by my bullet. 4 6.35%
I hold financial but no moral responsibility for the injuries caused by my bullet. 2 3.17%
I hold neither moral nor financial responsibility for the injuries caused by my bullet. 10 15.87%
Voters: 63. You may not vote on this poll

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Old July 28, 2010, 04:12 PM   #51
markj
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Join Date: October 27, 2005
Location: Crescent Iowa
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Quote:
I've been training to do so while returning fire. Shooting while running for cover. The question here is would you fire if behind the bad guy were good guys?
I would only fire if I couldnt get away or get behind something else. Shooting is last resort, if I do shoot I doubt I will check to see what is behind said bad guy. Isnt deer hunting so no time to think, only to react.

Shoot while taking cover? Hits will decline on BG leaving lead to land where and in whom?
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Old July 28, 2010, 06:44 PM   #52
jhenry
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If I am forced to fire in order to protect life and limb, then the damage is the responsibility of the one who forced my hand. "but for" his/her actions, nothing at all would have happened. If on the other hand, I acted negligently, even if forced to fire, I own my negligence.

I have a little issue with responsibility, and I prefer to place it where it belongs. Not where the pockets are deepest. I realize many view this as antiquated, or living in fantasy, but that is how I was raised. I assure you it is not fantasy, and really is how I conduct myself. I hold myself responsible for my actions, and I fully expect the same from others.

This is why we have the Felony Murder statute for instance, and why in many jurisdictions people are free from civil liability in the case of a justified shooting. For the purpose of placing the responsibility where it belongs.

If I am forced to fire and one lands in some poor soles foot I am negligent automatically? Nonsense. Automatically on the hook for a situation not of my choosing? Nope. I have to purchase everything my bullet hits no matter what? Not on your life. The guy who put me in a position to act or die is though.

If I shoot and act with reckless disregard, well then sue me. I deserve it at that point.
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Old July 28, 2010, 06:46 PM   #53
okgunman
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So long as the third-party didn't act in a way that otherwise they would not have been hurt (Like running towards the line of fire), I take full responsibility for my actions.
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Old July 28, 2010, 07:04 PM   #54
threegun
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Quote:
Shooting while running for cover?

WildpleasedontgotothesamemallasmeAlaska
Quote:
Shoot while taking cover? Hits will decline on BG leaving lead to land where and in whom?
Depends on the distance. Very good combat hits are common even while running at distances of up to 7 yards (for my ability right now). Of course as the distances increase hit rates and speed between shots decrease but so does hit rate for the bad guy. I've been working on a version of the fluid threat response taught by Sweat'n'Bullets. It allows one to respond with lead while satisfying the bodies natural desire to flee danger. Movement equals safety and returning fire equal safety. Both done together can mean the difference between life and death.

Stand and deliver while much more precise is a good way to get dead when even or behind in the reactionary curve.
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Old July 28, 2010, 07:11 PM   #55
Wildalaska
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Location: In my own little weird world in Anchorage, Alaska
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Quote:
Very good combat hits are common even while running at distances of up to 7 yards (for my ability right now). Of course as the distances increase hit rates and speed between shots decrease but so does hit rate for the bad guy. I've been working on a version of the fluid threat response taught by Sweat'n'Bullets. It allows one to respond with lead while satisfying the bodies natural desire to flee danger. Movement equals safety and returning fire equal safety. Both done together can mean the difference between life and death.
If you run and fire and hit an innocent you will, without any question, get indicted for, at a minimum a negligent assault/homicide.

No ifs and or buts. You might not be convicted, but some bottom feeding shyst...Oh no wait, hes defending you...so its some champion of the rights of the armed citizen..... is gonna be getting all of your cash to defend you

Wildandanyonewhotrainsfolkstodothatare...wellwordsfailmeatthatstupidityAlaska ™
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Old July 28, 2010, 07:33 PM   #56
threegun
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Quote:
If you run and fire and hit an innocent you will, without any question, get indicted for, at a minimum a negligent assault/homicide.
And you will be dead since you "chose" not to shoot. Or you will likely be dead if you stand and deliver. I would rather use the tactics that I have train with as needed to survive an imminent mortal encounter. I can't worry about legalities when being shot at provided I am the victim.

Worry before the shots start flying......fight for my life with the best tool in my box for the situation once they do.

You don't get charged with Homicide for someone accidentally hit by a stray bullet while you are in the process of defending yourself. The worst that could be brought against you is manslaughter and I find it hard to believe that a jury would indict given all the details. If you are running and shooting you are going to die if you don't in this system....hence the need to run and shoot.
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Old July 28, 2010, 07:37 PM   #57
threegun
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Wildandanyonewhotrainsfolkstodothatare...wellwordsfailmeatthatstupidityAlaska
You Pooh Pooh this system and I have no doubt that you don't have a clue how to fully defend yourself with a handgun.

I doubted it until I tried it. Old dogs new tricks I guess.

I can only thank Sweat'N'Bullets for sharing it with me.
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Old July 28, 2010, 07:41 PM   #58
Glenn E. Meyer
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Some long time members are starting to get personal. To avoid consequences, I think we are done. Happens when a thread goes on too long and positions harden. Thanks for the mostly excellent discussion, even from the cranky people.

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