The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > The Conference Center > Law and Civil Rights

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old July 22, 2010, 06:40 PM   #1
ScottRiqui
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 27, 2010
Location: Norfolk, VA
Posts: 2,905
Hypothetical Screw-Up - Any Way to Fix This?

Let's say John received a handgun from his father, but they're residents of two different states, and John unknowingly neglected to involve a local FFL in the transfer.

Problem is, John has since sold the gun to a dealer in his local state, so it's too late to complete the FFL transfer.

Is there any way to make this right? And more importantly, how likely is this to cause a problem for John in the future?
ScottRiqui is offline  
Old July 22, 2010, 06:56 PM   #2
ZeSpectre
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 4, 2007
Location: Shenandoah Valley
Posts: 3,276
If John was "gifted" the firearm from an immediate relative, and John lives in Virginia, then it doesn't matter. If John lived in another state then I can't answer the question.

(Oh unless John lived in NY or NJ in which case he should just shoot himself and get it over with).
__________________
"The dogs may bark but the caravan moves on"
ZeSpectre is offline  
Old July 22, 2010, 06:57 PM   #3
rjrivero
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 17, 2008
Location: NW Ohio
Posts: 1,349
Let's just say, John Lived with his father when he bequeathed the firearm to John. It was MANY years ago, who remembers how long.

John decided to sell the gun when he moved to another state.

All's good in the hood.
rjrivero is online now  
Old July 22, 2010, 07:05 PM   #4
highvel
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 21, 2010
Location: Powhatan VA
Posts: 633
I wouldnt sweat it, the way the story goes! If it were acquired from some other source ,or different circumstance, I think it could lead down a dark path though.
__________________
Do not argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.--Mark Twain

"I have opinions of my own 'strong opinions' but I don't always agree with them."--George Bush
highvel is offline  
Old July 22, 2010, 07:18 PM   #5
Webleymkv
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 20, 2005
Location: Indiana
Posts: 9,890
It depends, if John's dad gave him the pistol while John was still living in the same state or if John's dad gave him the pistol before 1968 then there is no issue. If that is not the case, however, then a federal crime was committed. Even so, it is very unlikely that it would give John or his dad any trouble as it would have to be proved that John's dad gave him the gun after 1968 when John was already a resident of another state. Even then, the gun would probably have to be seized in connection with a crime which is less likely since John sold it to an FFL.
__________________
Smith, and Wesson, and Me. -H. Callahan
Well waddaya know, one buwwet weft! -E. Fudd
All bad precedents begin as justifiable measures. -J. Caesar
Webleymkv is offline  
Old July 22, 2010, 07:18 PM   #6
ScottRiqui
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 27, 2010
Location: Norfolk, VA
Posts: 2,905
Quote:
If John was "gifted" the firearm from an immediate relative, and John lives in Virginia, then it doesn't matter.
Do you have a reference for intra-family gifting being exempt from the federal requirement for FFL transfer between residents of different states? That would go a long way toward easing John's mind.
ScottRiqui is offline  
Old July 22, 2010, 08:20 PM   #7
ZeSpectre
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 4, 2007
Location: Shenandoah Valley
Posts: 3,276
Quote:
Do you have a reference for intra-family gifting being exempt from the federal requirement for FFL transfer between residents of different states?
My point is that there is no firearms registration in VA and no sales record from a family member, so it would be pretty much impossible to prove where a firearm came from or that any crime was committed.....well unless John were to start talking about it on a public forum or something.
__________________
"The dogs may bark but the caravan moves on"
ZeSpectre is offline  
Old July 22, 2010, 08:23 PM   #8
Frank Ettin
Staff
 
Join Date: November 23, 2005
Location: California - San Francisco
Posts: 6,701
Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottRiqui
Do you have a reference for intra-family gifting being exempt from the federal requirement for FFL transfer between residents of different states? ...
No one does, because there isn't any -- at least if you (the giver) are still alive. If you want to give someone a gun and come within an exception to the transfer going through an FFL, you have to die.

"It shall be unlawful...(3) for any person, ... to transport into or receive in the State where he resides ... any firearm purchased or otherwise obtained by such person outside that State, except that this paragraph (A) shall not preclude any person who lawfully acquires a firearm by bequest or intestate succession in a State other than his State of residence from transporting the firearm into or receiving it in that State, if it is lawful for such person to purchase or possess such firearm in that State, (B)... "(18 USC 922(a)(3), emphasis added)

and

"It shall be unlawful...for any person ..to transfer, sell, trade, give, transport, or deliver any firearm to any person (other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector) who the transferor knows or has reasonable cause to believe does not reside in ... the State in which the transferor resides; except that this paragraph shall not apply to

(A) the transfer, transportation, or delivery of a firearm made to carry out a bequest of a firearm to, or an acquisition by intestate succession of a firearm by, a person who is permitted to acquire or possess a firearm under the laws of the State of his residence, and

(B)...."(18 USC 922(a)(5), emphasis added)

As to the OP's question. If he's concerned, he really ought to be talking confidentially to a lawyer, rather than discussing a possible legal problem on a public forum.
Frank Ettin is offline  
Old July 22, 2010, 10:47 PM   #9
NavyLT
Junior member
 
Join Date: January 25, 2006
Location: Oak Harbor, WA
Posts: 1,719
If I were "John" I wouldn't think twice about it. Nobody (FBI, ATF, NCIS, SVU, CSI, SG-1, etc.) cares.
NavyLT is offline  
Old July 23, 2010, 07:01 AM   #10
SwampYankee
Registration in progress
 
Join Date: November 1, 2008
Location: I can be found on a number of other forums.
Posts: 1,333
Quote:
If I were "John" I wouldn't think twice about it. Nobody (FBI, ATF, NCIS, SVU, CSI, SG-1, etc.) cares.
I agree. Nobody cares nor will they. Even if the gun is used in the commission of a crime, it was sold to an FFL. That is the last person they'll track down if they start looking into sales history. And if it has gone through multiple FFL's after it was sold, they'll never even come back to the one John sold it to. And why should they bother with any FFL? Bad guy uses gun, bad guy gets caught, bad guy goes to jail. Unless they are trying to make a case against the FFL for straw purchases or illegal sales, they don't care how the gun was obtained.

Suppose they do go to the FFL John sold it too? Even if they want to know that it came from you, how do you prove how you got it? I have a dozen handguns. Each came through a different FFL. If I lose the sales receipt, who is to say where I bought it from? Are they going to scour each FFL in Rhode Island to find out if I own the gun legally? No. This is a nonissue.
SwampYankee is offline  
Old July 23, 2010, 11:05 AM   #11
Edward429451
Junior member
 
Join Date: November 12, 2000
Location: Colorado Springs, Colorado
Posts: 9,494
Quote:
Do you have a reference for intra-family gifting being exempt from the federal requirement for FFL transfer
At first I thought this was a joke.

Scott, take a deep breath. I know you work for the feds but think back, remember a time when Americans could follow thier conscience without permits and applications. The before time. Scott Come back! Look waaay deep inside and remember family Scott. Family is bigger than gooberment Scott. Remember. John does not need congressional approval before giving his kid a gun, it's none of thier business.
Edward429451 is offline  
Old July 25, 2010, 03:34 PM   #12
divil
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 11, 2009
Posts: 402
Quote:
If I lose the sales receipt, who is to say where I bought it from?
NICS of course! They have the serial number combined with the FFL license number. The FFL has your signature filed away on a form.

I think they only have access to that stuff if the gun has been used in a crime though.
divil is offline  
Old July 26, 2010, 04:47 PM   #13
NavyLT
Junior member
 
Join Date: January 25, 2006
Location: Oak Harbor, WA
Posts: 1,719
Quote:
NICS of course! They have the serial number combined with the FFL license number.
NICS never gets the serial number of the gun. They get the type of gun being transferred: handgun, rifle, or other. That's it. I think they have a sale going on tinfoil hats at Wal Mart this week - made in China, of course.
NavyLT is offline  
Old July 28, 2010, 07:58 AM   #14
blume357
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 2, 2005
Location: Greenville, SC
Posts: 3,943
when the feds come knocking on your door... because

the ffl you sold it to... or even a private person you sold it to... gave them your name just tell them you bought it off a guy and can't remember his name....

then again... if you really want to be paranoid... how did your father get the gun... if he bought it from an FFL that the direction they, the feds, actually start in a trace.. from the manufacturer to the distributor to the deal (ffl) to the first individual that bought the gun and then on....
blume357 is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:26 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2014 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.10601 seconds with 7 queries