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Old July 13, 2010, 12:40 AM   #1
rude robert
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.223 with rem 6.5 primer

Okay, I under stand some people won't use it with a Ar15 but I couldn't find anyone who would buy my box(1000) or primers. I reloaded a few hundred with the rem 7.5's but I don't want to just throw the 6.5's away. Anyway, I loaded 10 rounds with the 6.5's and ran them through the ar15. I don's see any difference with the look of the dent made from the firing pin then with the 7.5's. Plus, the 6.5's didn't slam fire. I used the 6.5's in new cases though so maybe not having the carbon build up has made a bit of difference in not resulting in a slam fire but, I don't know. Anyways, I have loaded about 40 rounds using the 6.5 so I hope that it will be okay what do You guys think. Is this taking a huge risk? The primers are in line with what the Hornady reload book says, they use wsr If i remember all the letters correctly, both for .223 and their 5.56 rounds thx robert
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Old July 13, 2010, 12:47 AM   #2
medalguy
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You should be fine. Personally I use 7 1/2 for 223 but lots of people use 6 1/2 and they haven't fallen down dead yet. I believe the 7 1/2 primers are a bit harder but can't prove that, and as long as you take care to seat the primers to the proper depth they should perform flawlessly. Of course, they should always be seated properly anyway.
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Old July 13, 2010, 01:24 AM   #3
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it says right on the side of the box not to use in .223. thats good enough for me.
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Old July 13, 2010, 07:24 AM   #4
Krieger9
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6 1/2

I've fired about 2,000 rounds through my RRA AR-15 with 6 1/2.

I haven't seen a slam fire, I do of course have an indent when I chamber the round if I eject it.

I fired for a long time with only a couple rounds loaded just incase, but never had a problem. I'm guessing it's particular to the gun itself.
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Old July 13, 2010, 09:09 AM   #5
rude robert
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Actually, I have heard that it says not to use on the box but I have not read that anywhere that I can't use in the are. It dents the 7.5 primer too, okay as long as some have used it I guess I'll limit my use to new cases so that there is no carbon build up that way the primer seats a little better thx guys
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Old July 13, 2010, 09:26 AM   #6
Loader9
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The Remington 6 1/2 primer has a cup thickness of .020 which is the same as the CCI400. The 7 1/2 primer thickness is .025 and should handle a slam fire condition better. I've used both and never had a problem. Guns are not a like and what may be dangerous in one firearm may be just fine an another.
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Old July 13, 2010, 11:31 AM   #7
rude robert
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I went back and looked at the box it says which is not word for word because i m going off my memory lol. It makes reference to like high action rifles i can assume it means semi autos like the ar's. Well, I will use them only in new cases and use the 7.5 in the used ones and hope all is well lol
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Old July 13, 2010, 11:33 AM   #8
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The problem with the Remington 6.5 primer is NOT about slam fires. It has to do with the thin primer cup PIERCING right next to the firing pin indentation. If that happens, you will be buying a new bolt! The hot gases that escape that pin-hole act like a cutting torch to the boltface.

I know this because; it happened to me. NO, the boxes of 6.5s I had did NOT have that warning on them. These concerns are about pressure, not the possibility of a slam fire.

The Rem 6.5 is made for the small, old cases like the .22 hornet, bee and a few others. Their pressure levels are much lower.

You've been warned. Don't cry to remington about your ruined bolt face, or come on a forum with a long face.
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Old July 13, 2010, 11:48 AM   #9
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If they have the same cup thickness as the CCI 400 Small Rifle Primers and Snuffy had a problem with "PIERCING" which lead to gun damage wouldn't CCI 400 primer be unsafe as well?

Are the metals used harder or softer from one type of primer to the next?

I think that if there is a "Warning" on the box (which there is) it would be best NOT to use these primers in your gun?

"Warning: Remington does not recommend this primer for use in the 17 Remington, 222 Remington, 223 Remington, 204 Ruger, 17 Remington Fireball. Use the 7-1/2 Small Rifle Bench Rest primer in these cartridges. # This 6-1/2 Small Rifle primer is primarily designed for use in the 22 Hornet."

Rude Robert, I think it would be in your best interests to follow Snuffy's advice and not use these primers.
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Old July 13, 2010, 03:34 PM   #10
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Quote:
I know this because; it happened to me. NO, the boxes of 6.5s I had did NOT have that warning on them. These concerns are about pressure, not the possibility of a slam fire.

The Rem 6.5 is made for the small, old cases like the .22 hornet, bee and a few others. Their pressure levels are much lower.
This!

The warning can also be found on Remington's web site. Note it does NOT mention type of rifle, only High Pressure cartridges like the 223.

In rifle cartridges, the 6-1/2 small rifle primer should not be used in the 17 Remington, 222 Remington, 204 Ruger or the 223 Remington. The 7-1/2 BR is the proper small rifle primer for these rounds.

http://remington.custhelp.com/app/an...imers/r_id/166
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Old July 13, 2010, 04:40 PM   #11
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The one measurement I've seen reported the 6½ had cups 0.020" thick and the 7½'s had cups 0.025" thick, as previously mentioned. In general, if you load below about 43,000 cup (47,000 psi if all the stars line up right) with 6½'s, you should be OK, as that is about Hornet maximum. I shot .222 Remington loads in a Remington 600 using the 6½ for years before the warning came out. But this was loading with a Lee Loader, and the actual charges thrown by the the dipper that came with it were only about 18.5 grains of IMR4198. In QuickLOAD, with 50 grain bullets that produces about 38,000 psi. Pretty tame and perfectly safe with that primer.

The thin 6½ cup thickness is on par with a pistol primer. It is thin because some of the old actions the Hornet was put in, like open hammer falling blocks, just don't hit the firing pin all that hard. The thin cup is needed for reliable ignition in them. That also means a hard hitting firing pin with some excess pin protrusion from the bolt face could be hazardous to 6½'s, from the piercing standpoint.
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Old July 13, 2010, 05:04 PM   #12
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I shot 100 6 1/2's in my AR and had no problems. Later I read about the piercing and specific application of the 6 1/2's to the Hornet and such. Luckily for me I was using startiing load with a new primer so got away with it. I'd pitch those primers if I couldn't sell them. Takin a hit for a 35 dollar box of primers isn't as much as a new bolt.

Do not continue to use those primers in 223. That is teasing Murphy and almost teasing Darwin if you think about it! Those primers are for a different application, period.
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Old July 13, 2010, 07:46 PM   #13
rude robert
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I won't blame Remington, although I might come here with a long face lol. I loaded 200 while writing and reading these posts. If the bolt gets ruined which I hope nothing happens I guess I will have to buy one but I'm hoping that nothing happens.
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Old July 13, 2010, 07:53 PM   #14
rude robert
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Snuffy, do you have any pics of the bolt by any chance? How did you know something went wrong? I am hoping that since I don't rapid fire these rounds that It might help too. I use them for hunting peeps and yotes. Anyways, being I was new to reloading the .223 round, I will not be making that mistake again. Although I am still baffled why Hornady says to use the wsr primer which is in line with rem 6.5 thx robert
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Old July 16, 2010, 08:32 AM   #15
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Why not ask Remington?

They will be, as most gun related manufacturers are, happy to give you the REAL information.

In this case, if you e-mail and ask what's the difference between 61/2 and 71/2 primers beyond closer tolerances you'll get an answer like this:

Discussion Thread
Response (Aaron) 07/16/2010 09:14 AM
Thank you for contacting us, 6 1/2 is going to be used for old style cartridges having relatively low pressure like the .30 carbine, .25-20 Win, .32-20 Win and .22 Hornet. The 7 1/2 are going to be used for the higher pressure more modern loads like the .223, .222, 6mm br and such
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Old July 16, 2010, 08:58 AM   #16
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Quote:
it says right on the side of the box not to use in .223. thats good enough for me.
I never noticed this until I read it on the boards several months back. I had been loading with these primers. No problems since my loads are mild.

I use them for 9mm now. They work fine there.
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Old July 16, 2010, 09:09 AM   #17
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I bought a couple K 6 1/2s a while back by mistake, loaded up and shot a bunch of 223s 52 grainers for my SP1 AR and didnt have a problem. Although when I notices the mistake I set the 6 1/2s asided for my 25-20 and 30 Carbine.

I suppose the 6 1/2s would be ok in light 223 loads using the cast bullets I use for off hand practice.
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Old July 16, 2010, 09:33 AM   #18
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This is straight from the Remington Website found here ......

http://remington.custhelp.com/app/an...imers/r_id/166

Quote:
In rifle cartridges, the 6-1/2 small rifle primer should not be used in the 17 Remington, 222 Remington, 204 Ruger or the 223 Remington. The 7-1/2 BR is the proper small rifle primer for these rounds.
I have always used 7 1/2 if I use Remington.
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Old July 21, 2010, 03:08 PM   #19
rude robert
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I went out squirrel hunting yesterday and I fired 12 of the rounds that I loaded with the 6.5 rem primer. The first one I was kind of nervous about but managed a head shot on squirrel at 129 yrds that is a lucky shot for me lol. Then, on the rest of them I was probably too light hearted about it. Thinking if it goes south how bad will it be?? I think maybe it will take me years to get rid of those primers heheh
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Old July 21, 2010, 03:13 PM   #20
Krieger9
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Getting rid of 6.5's

I bought mine during the primer shortage when I couldn't find any other options.

stocked up on quite a few, will be using them for plinking loads for quite awhile.

Dont' think I'll ever go above starting loads with them. They have been wonderful for that use for me though.

What'd the squirrel think of them?
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Old July 21, 2010, 03:33 PM   #21
demigod
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I run 24.5 grains of TAC behind 55 grain FMJs. This load gets me a peak pressure of only 32,000 PSI. I haven't had any issues with 6-1/2 primers.
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Old July 21, 2010, 05:31 PM   #22
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I run 24.5 grains of TAC behind 55 grain FMJs. This load gets me a peak pressure of only 32,000 PSI.
Interesting, how do you know what your peak pressures are?
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Old July 21, 2010, 07:52 PM   #23
demigod
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Quickload. Quickload software can chart the pressure levels all the way down the barrel.
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Old July 21, 2010, 08:05 PM   #24
steve4102
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Quote:
Quickload. Quickload software can chart the pressure levels all the way down the barrel.
I;m pretty new to Quickload, but I come up with over 44K psi with that load. Maybe I'm doing something different than you.
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Old July 22, 2010, 08:55 AM   #25
demigod
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Interesting! I'll see if I can post my graph.... My buddy actually did it for me...

The one thing that doesn't look right off the top of my head is the "Fill %". I mean.... I can't believe that my cases are near 94.5% full at my powder charge. I visually check every case that I put a bullet on, and it's a pain in the butt to see the powder charge because it's below the shoulder a little bit.

Edit: here it is... ???


Last edited by demigod; July 22, 2010 at 09:03 AM.
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