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Old July 9, 2010, 09:33 PM   #1
grubbylabs
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So what would you do?

Let me set the scene for you and you can say what you would do, and then I will tell you what I did and why.


You and your brother (or who ever) are wadding down a stream fishing. You observe a two people pull up in a SUV and let 3 dogs out. They lead the dogs to the water. They then let the dogs play in the water while you are slowly fishing down the stream. As you get close closer you notice that one of the dogs becomes aggressive. You try to pass but are not able to due to the aggressive dog continually bluff charging, barking aggressively with the hair on his back is standing up. The dog owners in the mean time are trying to gather up the two other dogs who show no signs of aggression. Going up stream is not a possibility as there is no way out. The stream is also lined with willows blocking other escape routes.

Their are two of you two fishing poles and you are armed with a hand gun.
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Old July 9, 2010, 09:41 PM   #2
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If the dog was fairly close, I would back up slowly while drawing my gun and then aim it at the dog, trigger finger on the slide of the gun. Then I would yell at the owners, "If the dog charges us, I WILL shoot!" I would then keep the gun aimed at the dog, trigger finger on the slide, until the owners corralled their dog. If he charge us, I would shoot.
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Old July 9, 2010, 11:54 PM   #3
KMG5402
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Let's not forget that dogs bark. But with that being said...

With my hand on my gun (ready to shoot if necessary) I'd yell at the owners asking why they weren't attending to the obviously more aggressive animal.

If I truly felt the dog was about to attack and the owners were too far to help, I'd fire a warning shot in the air. This would most likely scare the dog enough to back off, but you never know. If that didn't work and the dog began to charge I'd fire a shot in front of it, hoping the blast and shock wave would scare it off. And by all means, if it kept charging I'd put it down. Dogs kill.

Very curious as to how this situation played out for you....
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Old July 10, 2010, 12:30 AM   #4
noyes
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Yelling around a truely aggressive dog could be the wrong thing to do.
Aimming a gun at an aggressive dog while looking at the dogs in the eyes would be the wrong thing to do. Be carefull with eye to eye contact.
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Old July 10, 2010, 01:23 AM   #5
Hook686
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I'd call to the other guys and ask them to control their dog. If they did not, I'd go back the way I came. If the dog followed and attacked, I'd shoot it.
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Old July 10, 2010, 02:07 AM   #6
BillCA
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If the dog is barking and bluff charging, he's warning me to stay away. I think the dog is the one that's scared. Having been in a similar situation (in a park) I acted like the owner might. "No, stop that! Go get in the car! Go. Get. In the car!" When the dog's owner leashed it and put it in the car, I told him that a dog that aggressive shouldn't be off-leash where kids were playing. I found out why the dog was aggressive.

Now, as to your scenario, I'd try the same tactics. Stand firm, tell the dog to "Get in the car. Go get in the car." and variations ("let's go for a ride" or perhaps even "Where's your ball?" which have been known to work in the past.) If the owner(s) seem to dally, I might call out to them "Would you please come here and control your dog?"

If the dog is a larger breed and is baring teeth when NOT barking, damn straight I'm going to deploy my firearm and demand the owner control his dog. Depending on the depth of the water my first "warning" shot might be into the water close to the dog to stop his approach and/or threats. If the dog attacks, I'll take care of the dog first, then address the owner(s) for their negligence and/or recklessness.
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Old July 10, 2010, 03:22 AM   #7
gyvel
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Seems to me we had a similar experience not too long ago here in Arizona involving a schoolteacher and a dog. It escalated and the dog's owner was shot and killed. It didn't end well for the schoolteacher. 'Nuff said.
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Old July 10, 2010, 07:12 AM   #8
Bailey Boat
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Ya gotta do what ya gotta do!!!!! I love all animals but I'll be damned if I'm gonna let one chew on me. Either the owner controls the animal or I will!!! It's not like you were trespassing on his turf or threatening the owners in any manner, sounds like he was just out for fun and I don't want to play......
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Old July 10, 2010, 07:20 AM   #9
Dwight55
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If I had waded down the stream to get where these dogs were, I obviously could wade back up stream in an attempt to difuse this situation.

I would also look the dog straight in the face and holler and scream for his owners to get him under control, . . . the first few times.

Anything further, . . . the dog and the owners would determine how it would eventually end, . . . but in all honesty, . . . in 65 years, I've only been a chew toy for one other dog, . . . and with a hand gun on my person, . . . I think I could probably keep it that way.

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Old July 10, 2010, 07:21 AM   #10
alloy
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Are these dogs Beagles or Great Danes?

I don't know, I'm a dog person so I would probobly say "come here boy" while retaining the option of a pistol upside it's head. At 47 I can't remember a dog I couldn't deal with, but I'm sure they are out there.

If it's a maneater I guess it gets a bullet.
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Old July 10, 2010, 07:38 AM   #11
Uncle Billy
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I posted this here about a year ago:

" Taking a walk in a local park with my oldest son when he was about 5 or 6; some dog-lover had unleashed his Doberman, which was romping around with his new freedom maybe 50 yards from my son and me. The dog spots us and makes a bee-line, teeth bared. I push my son behind me and take a Weaver stance with my Walther PPK loaded with Silvertips, aimed at the dog. The owner sees what's about to happen and frantically calls the dog off. About 10 yards from us the dog turns away and returns to his owner. I drop the muzzle and hold until the dog is on the leash and outward bound. The owner shouts back to me as they depart the area, 'He's never bitten anyone! He's just playing!'. I shout back, 'I've never killed anything, but I was serious!' "

I figured that I'd have to wait until the dog got a mouthful of me or had attacked me in some way before I could get away with shooting it, and even then I might have had some legal hassle (I live in New York, what a surprise). But the Second Amendment allows me to protect myself and my family with a gun, I have a New York concealed carry permit, and that dammed dog was not going to have me or my son for lunch.
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Old July 10, 2010, 07:49 AM   #12
Mosinnagant
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The dog is probably scared if it barking and bluff charging. But anyway your not supposed turn and run but slowly back away or it could chase you.
I would have the handgun at the ready round chambered safty off but finger out of the trigger guard on the slide. I would then instruct my parner to use his pole as a club if the dog charged scince I like dogs and shooting it is the last opption in my book. But if it charged I would shoot a warning shot to scare it. But other wise i would back off.
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Old July 10, 2010, 08:11 AM   #13
ojibweindian
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My actions would be predicated on what the owners of the dogs were doing to manage them. If they were trying to get the dogs under control, I'd sit tight and wait. If they were blowing off the whole situation, I'd have shot the dogs.
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Old July 10, 2010, 09:26 AM   #14
g.willikers
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Dogs who are pets, and have not been trained to attack, are mostly a lot of noise.
Especially off their own turf.
Even when they charge, rarely do they actually even grab a pants leg.
Personally, I give them the benefit of the doubt and don't do anything drastic.
A foot stomp, a strong order to stop, or, if one end is snarling and the other end is wagging, a kind word.
So far, that's been working.
Attack dogs, on the other hand, are worthy of defense.
But they mostly act only on orders, or if their turf is invaded.
They are not likely to be encountered in a public place.

Wild dogs are quite different; they have regressed to wolf.
Generally, they do not give warning, no barking, or posturing.
They're hungry, serious and stalking.
If you ever run across one, it will be obvious.
It's them or you.
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Old July 10, 2010, 11:16 AM   #15
Carne Frio
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I always carry bear spray, when out an about, (even walking my dog)
and especially when not in town. It puts a big hurt on unfriendly
critters. It has worked at least once a year for the last six years and
I have not had to shoot any dogs, (something I would prefer not to do).
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Old July 10, 2010, 11:59 AM   #16
grubbylabs
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Ok so it looks like time for the rest of the story.


My brother and I were wading down a fairly fast moving stream and had only been in the water about 20 yards, it was the only foreseeable entry point aside from where the dogs were. This is the type of stream that you want to move slowly in because of the rocks and speed of water. As we came closer the German Shepard became highly agitated barking and passing the bank, without wagging his tail but rather the hair on his neck and back was upright indicating to me he was not happy we were there. The other two dogs did not care we were there. Both were labs and one was in the water with us. The male owner was busy trying to get the lab in the water out of it while intermittently telling us that the aggressive dog is not going to bite us or any thing, and that he sees the owner in waders all the time. He for some reason was more concerned about getting the non problem dog out of the water. I had a smith and wesson 44 in the front pocket of my waders which I had removed and was holding at my side so that if I stood right the dog owner could not tell I was holding it. My brother and I stood side by side and told the owner that the dog was being aggressive and we wanted him to remove the dog. At one point he noticed the gun and asked what it was for, I pointed at his dog and said "that" meaning his dog. Never at any time did I point my weapon at him or his dog. He again said his dog was not going to bite us, but we were in a position where we could not go any where safely so we stood our ground and waited for the owner to get his dog in his car. I am absolutely certain that if we had tried to continue on up or down stream the dog would have come in the water at us. We did try to back up towards the other side of the stream and the dog became even more aggressive in his charging and barking. We never yelled at the dog owner but remained calm but firm. He eventually got all his dogs in the SUV and left and we continued fishing and had a good time.


So what say you?

I am leaving for the day so I look forward to the advise you all give and hope that it is helpful

Grubby
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Old July 10, 2010, 12:39 PM   #17
KMG5402
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The last thing I'm going to do is believe someone when they say their dog wont bite. My dog bites me all the time and luuuvs me.

Last edited by KMG5402; July 10, 2010 at 09:42 PM.
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Old July 10, 2010, 05:58 PM   #18
briandg
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The way you set it up, I can't back out of it, I can't stop it, and there is inevitably going to be a confrontation with the dog unless I can make it leave.

First off, I really believe in pepper spray out in the wild. Dogs, bears, people, skunks, it is a versatile and effective way to end confrontations. I think everyone should carry it in the wild, just like the postal service does. Millions of dogs are maced every year so the mail can get through. My mail man even maced a spider on my porch that was between him and my box.

First: Say hello, and try to make peace with it.

Second: Scold the dog. "go on! Get out of here, you half witted son of a biscuit eater! Shoo! Go away!" (have weapon handy.)

Third: Yell at the stupid louts that have let the dog run. If they weren't aware of you, they may not know what is going on.

Last: when the rest of it is failing, and it won't back down, they won't control him, and you genuinely believe that there is no resolution and that you are in danger, MACE HIM. Since you don't carry mace, What sort of gun? Drop a warning shot right between his front legs and see if he enjoys the explosion and the blast of water in his face. Then shoot him if he fails to back down.

Then expect things to get a hell of a lot worse. Around here, the sort of rednecks who would turn 3 dogs loose at a stream are also liable to have a 12 gauge in the truck for "snakes."
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Old July 10, 2010, 06:04 PM   #19
booker_t
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Quote:
They then let the dogs play in the water while you are slowly fishing down the stream. As you get closer you notice that one of the dogs becomes aggressive. You try to pass but are not able
Correct Answer: Walk away. Go back in the direction you came, there's fish there too, I promise.

You have all of God's creation to fish and you decide to walk up to other people who have dogs off leash? And continue to get closer when one of their dogs gets aggressive? For those who say they would get their gun out and yell at the owners to control their dog, let's flip the situation around. That same mentality could be used by the owners thinking you are provoking their pooch, and they are going to draw while yelling at you to leave their dog alone. Either way, it's totally ridiculous, unjustified, unnecessary. WALK THE OTHER DIRECTION.

There is no need for a gun, giving commands, yelling, or even communication with the other folks other than a friendly wave from a distance in this scenario.

Last edited by booker_t; July 10, 2010 at 06:11 PM.
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Old July 10, 2010, 06:36 PM   #20
Edward429451
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There is no walking away from a dog that's posturing to you and charging wether bluffing or not. Most dogs see you as turning to run and that would amp them up for the chase, no it has to be settled right there. The owners were not in sight when this happened to me so I yelled at the dog no and to go and acted agressive to the dog to make him change his mind and go away. The same dog attacked me again with a day or so and was not bluff charging...he kept coming so a shot in the grass in front of him in the hopes that it would turn him...worked. The big bang scared the pee out of him. I guess dogs have a sense of self preservation too.

In your scenario I would have done exactly as you did since the owners were there. I am a serviceman so go to a lot of peoples houses so have been bitten a few times. Always small dogs and usually at the same time that the owner is explaining that tootsie would never bite anyone OW!!
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Old July 10, 2010, 06:46 PM   #21
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booker t Do you flyfish ,with rushing water sound around you. It is totally unjustified, ridiculous and unnecessary to have to turn tail in waders against the current and try to go back up creek. They said any more movement just made him act nastier. Owner of the dog should have gotten control of a amost died dog first. Then let the labs play or be held back while they fished or walked on threw. You must also have not had a dog really get after you . If you fall in waders even in a shallow creek you could be in for a ride with good water flow . The owner of the barking the dog was probably much closer to him and would have known if dog was t'd off and should be under control of the problem right then and not waited.

Last edited by JohnKSa; July 10, 2010 at 10:24 PM. Reason: .
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Old July 10, 2010, 08:02 PM   #22
grubbylabs
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Yes turning tail and running in the stream was not a good option. There was no where for us to go up stream and we did not know the dog was going to be aggressive till we got there. Had we turned and went up stream we would have had to come back down the stream to leave any way. Any one who has ever fished a stream like that knows that when you fish a stream you go down stream. Especially when you are wearing neoprene duck hunting waders with rubber boots.
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Old July 10, 2010, 09:27 PM   #23
raimius
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Walk away without turning around. Getting hit by a dog from behind can take you off your feet, and you don't want that!

I aggree with the escalation:
Talk nicely
Scold
Use spray (if available)
Use lethal force

For the scold part, a gutteral and loud "OUT!" seems effective on many dogs. It is similar to the sound a female dog will use to scold its pups.
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Old July 10, 2010, 10:00 PM   #24
booker_t
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I never said "turn tail" nor "run away," but clearly you aren't looking for information, you're looking for validation of overly-aggressive action against strangers on (presumably) public land where off-leash is legal.

You can't have it both ways. If you're in deep enough water to need waders, then the dog is likely swimming and not exactly able to charge at you, let alone in a position to be aggressive. If you're shallow enough where it has solid footing, you should be fully capable of walking away. It's public space and they have just as much right to use of the land as you do, treat them as you'd like to be treated. Clearly there's a big difference between a rot or a pit versus a beagle or a lab. Even a pug can be aggressive towards strangers, but I'd like to see you justify that one.

Fine, so you go downstream to fish. Dogs are territorial, and protective of their owners/pack. You said in the OP that you saw one was being aggressive, but you continued to approach. It became more aggressive as you continued down stream. STOP approaching. Walk away or back off, all the dog wants is space, same as you. Really, how hard is that? If you really really need to get back downstream, holler to the owner if the dog is friendly, or if they can restrain it while you pass. They would likely comply if you ask that way as opposed to firing warning shots into the water, at which point they would likely be justified putting hot lead into your COM. Water in your waders will be the least of your concerns.

If you're unable to use your superior human brain to find a way out of the situation (or avoid getting into it) without the use of a firearm, then frankly I question whether you should be carrying one. Postmen encounter aggressive dogs on a daily basis, and our suburban landscape isn't scattered with decaying puppy carcasses as a result.

Good luck with your future gun-toting adventures. Maybe you should check out Nutnfancy's selection of fine tacticool fly-fishing gear.

Last edited by booker_t; July 10, 2010 at 10:17 PM.
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Old July 10, 2010, 10:17 PM   #25
jreXD9
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you should've cast your line over his back, hooked him and set that hook HARD, son! the dog, not the owner......
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